Going CRAZZYY...2 yr old...still not sleeping through the night..need a plan!!

[KiusMum]

Hello..

posting after a real loonng time, back again with miserable sleep issues..
My son is now 2 yrs and 1 week old and he still wakes up atleast once during the night. I started doing GW with him when he was around 14 - 16 months old to get rid of all the accidental parenting. It took a long time,however I did succeed in baby steps and by the time he was 18 months old, he was able to put himself to sleep at bedtime (almost). I should mention however, I was never able to get rid of the chair completely, i.e I still sit outside his door on the chair and tell him his sleepy phrase or sing a lullaby if he starts calling out for me at bedtime.
This usually takes about 30 mins or so, if he's tired. For the past 1 week now, I have reduced the talking and singing , however
I have not been able to completely eliminate it. I hve to go in a couple of times, sometimes cos he wants more milk, at times cos his teddy gets lost in the bed and whatever new reason he can come up with. He doesn't cry, but he will keep calling out for me, till I respond, I hve tried to ignore his calls and although somtimes, he eventually stops calling and falls asleep, most of the times he ends up upset cos I am not answering him. Last night at bedtime, he called me 3 times, around 10 min intervals, first his foot got stuck in the rails, then he wanted more milk and then cos he culdnt find his teddy.. Each time, I went in, fot his foot, unstuck, gave him milk..etc. and told him its bedtime sternly.
 
I am not sure what path I need to follow to get him to the point where I can just put him in bed, kiss him gd night and walk out and he will be ok with that?? (CAN THIS EVER HAPPEN???)

I can still cope with the bedtimes, however the NWs are just terrible..I have been largely responsible for all the AP, however to my defense..I m almost like a single mom working full time, as my husband is stationed out of town for work and only comes home for the
weekends ...so as u can imagine..its ext. ext. difficult.

He mostly used to wake up atleast once during the night, I either patted him back to sleep, or rocked at times and sometimes gave him a milk feed, if he kept insisting on it. I know.. alll baddd baddd habits... .

Since the past 1 week, I have completely stopped the night feeds, he keeps asking, however I just offer water and tell him theres no milk. It usually takes me an hour, sometimes more of patting him in his cot to get him back to sleep. During this time, he's very restless, as if he doesn't want me to pat him, but if I stop, he will sit up crying.

Again, I am not sure what steps I need to take to stop his NWs, I understand its going to be a long process, but I just need a good plan and stick to it and wait for the results.

Here's his routine, it varies on what time he wakes up, which again depends on how long he was up during the NW.

6.40 - Wake up
12.00 - 2.15 - Nap
8.30 - Asleep for the night
last night NW (3.07 AM - 4.37 AM)

I can adjust the nap times, I don't allow him to sleep for more than 2 hrs 15 mins, cos else it surely results in a biigg NW, although he will still go to bed at his usual time.

Sorry for the long rant...but at my wits end ..and hoping all the gr88 BWs can help me put together a good plan that I can follow.

Thanks again!!

[<Catherine>]

I've got to dash now, so just a quick post - that's quite a long nap, I do wonder if it may be too long for him? Perhaps you could try capping it (maybe to 1.5hrs) and bring BT forward. It's quite common at this age, and I think he's UT at BT so has trouble settling and is then OT by the time he falls asleep.

I would definitely stick with not offering him any milk. Does he have his 2yr molars yet? They can also cause havoc at this age.

[Tweakster]

Agree with Cath.  I think his day is too long and the long nap is skewing things. 

So sorry it's all so hard for you at the moment (((hugs)))

[KiusMum]

Thanks All4Finn and Catherine for your replies ...

I know the day is too long and I actually cut his nap from 2.5 hrs to 2 hrs  .. And hes always tired when he wakes up from the nap, I mean I hve to wake him up. At day care, I have told them to cap it at 2 or 2.15. I will try cutting it down a bit more and see how that works when he's home during the weekend.

Here's what happend yesterday-----
Wake up (yesterday) - 6.40 am
Nap - 11.55 - 2.00 pm
Bedtime - 8.40 pm (asleep)
NW - 4.00 - 5.15 am (Had to take him in my lap finally and pat him for about 20 mins before he dozed off)
Wake up(today) - 6.20 am
----------------------------
So as you can see he's only had about 8.5 hrs sleep + the NW.

I didn't offer any milk again, but was at my wits end, when had been patting him for an hr and he was still not falling asleep.

Could you give me a sample routine that I could work towards..
I would ideally want his wake up time to be 7 am or anything after that (ideally !!).
So for a 7 am wake up, what should his bedtime and naptimes be?? Hes 2 yrs and 10 days old.

Also what is the best strategy to handle his NWs??
At present, whenever he wakes up, I go in, tell him to lie down and then I just pat his back, he does ask for milk and sometimes accepts water, or sometimes doesn't want water either. The problem is I don't think the patting helps much, except for keeping him from fully waking up. Like today morning , after about 45 mins of patting, I just took him in my lap and patted him and that helped him to go back to sleep better. I know this is probably resulting in a wrong SA, but I wanted the quickest possible way (w/o milk) to get him to sleep. However, I am all ears to any suggestions to handle this??

On the plus side, at bedtime, I had to go in only twice to settle him back and he did fall asleep within 20 mins, which is gr88.

[Shannon14]

I'm having the same issue with my 23 month old.  Except my guy goes to bed perfectly. We do our routine, I kiss him good night, he usually cheerfully says goodnight with a kiss and then lays awake in his bed for a little while before dozing off.  Then when he wakes in the middle of the night, he's a completely opposite child... Will not put himself back to sleep, sometimes wants milk, sometimes wants snuggles, sometimes wants nothing at all except just to scream bloody murder.  And he usually wakes more than once.  Sorry - I wish I could help but I'm having the same problem.  Just wanted to tell you you're not alone.

[<Catherine>]

Could you give me a sample routine that I could work towards..

It's very difficult to say, each LO has such different needs, and I found this the hardest age to predict too (we're still going through all this nonsense now!) - their sleep needs seem to change quite often at this age.

I would suggest trying something like this for a few days and see how you get on:-
Wake up 6.40am (you *may* be able to get this closer to 7.00am once he's more settled)
Nap 12.00-1.30pm
BT 7.00pm

Also what is the best strategy to handle his NWs??

Just to keep things as low key as you can - saying very little, and maybe using WI/WO (I don't have a lot of experience here so not sure what is the best tactic). Hopefully if you can get his daytime routine sorted then that will deal with the NWs.

[KiusMum]

Shannon14,

I know how it feels when u hve to get up time and again night after night, not knowing what's wrong with ur baby. .
Maybe he's teething..hve u tried teething meds?? I hve just given him teething meds today to see if it makes a diff. but I don't think its teething in my case..however u could try and see if it makes a diff..

Hi Catherine,
Thanks a ton for ur response..7 pm bedtime is ext. difficult for me, cos by the time I get home with him from childcare , its almost 6 pm, he then has his dinner, bath, some stories and then bedtime..Currently bedtime is 8.30 pm, which I know is v late, if he gets up by 2 pm from his nap. But I am going to try and get it forward to 8 pm and see how it works. Yesterday he slept 2.5 hrs @ childcare..so his night sleep was totally ruined and so was mine.. ..but he's doing better @ bedtime, I have to go 2 -3 times in whenever he calls me, but I don't sit on the chair at all and have stopped singing completely. Just go in , fulfill his demand , tell him its time to sleep and then get out immediately. If he's really tired, which he is at 6 hrs from his nap time, he will fall asleep within 15 - 20 mins, so that's a gr88 improvement from what it was earlier.

I m just hoping NWs stop..after I tweak his routine/ nap times. Thanks again for ur help.

[Little toes]

Will write in the morning....went thru much of the same thing. ((HUGS))

[<Catherine>]

7 pm bedtime is ext. difficult for me, cos by the time I get home with him from childcare , its almost 6 pm, he then has his dinner, bath, some stories and then bedtime..Currently bedtime is 8.30 pm, which I know is v late, if he gets up by 2 pm from his nap. But I am going to try and get it forward to 8 pm and see how it works.

I completely understand, I've been through exactly the same - my DS needed an earlier BT for months and with work etc I really struggled - just do what you can, I fear that 8pm wont be early enough, but you can only do what you can do. The earlier the better.

I'm so pleased that BTs are better

[clairebear79]

what about shortening the nap by pushing the start of his nap later but wake him at the same time as usual i.e. 12.30-2pm rather than 12-1.30? 

I know he is waking early, but I have found with my LO (who is admittedly a wee bit younger than yours but also going through a wonky sleep patch with some EW's) that the earlier nap was more likely to encourage an early wake.  We currently do nap 12.30-2.30 with 7.30 BT but are now working on pushing this later to 1pm as he seems to be needing a longer A in the AM.  It seems though, that as his morning lengthens, his afternoon is getting shorter.

At your DS's age, and if you want to keep that later BT, I would think he probably needs his nap to start nearer to 1pm.  Otherwise like Cath says, the A time to BT will just be too long after a shorter nap.

Maybe a plan could be to do 12.15-2pm for a week, then 12.30-2pm for a week, then shift the nap 15mins later each week til it starts at 1pm?

What do you think?

[Little toes]

Hugs! I know how you feel. I did accidental parenting for the same reasons, being alone with DD, not having much help, just wanting to get sleep, etc. Taking away the night bottle took time, I had to start with taking away milk at her noon nap. I had to explain that she gets one bottle at BT and that's it. It's been over a month and she'll still wake and ask for it. We co-sleep cuz of the many NW's she's had. I also tried to adjust her nap but in the end it didn't make that much of a difference. I found that it just took time. At one point (ok, at many points) I thought I was going to lose my mind with her taking forever to fall asleep and all the NW. And now that she's almost 2.5yo, she's decided she's going to be a better sleeper. At noon I tuck her in and she'll fall asleep on her own. At BT she takes 45mins to fall asleep, and rarely wakes anymore. My point is, for some kids it doesn't matter what you try, it just takes time. That was never an answer I wanted to hear cuz I was always so desperate for help and I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong. Don't worry, don't stress. Things will come together and he will sttn!!!

[KiusMum]

hello everyone...I hve just got back from our easter vaction.. we both went to visit my hubby and we all had a nice holiday together..(much awaited...)...neways didnt have much of a routine while on the holiday, however he did mostly sleep thru the night, might hve woken up once or so..but settled down immediately with a pat..I think it was cos he was so tired and exhausted during the day becos of all the excitement...

I hve read all ur suggestions..thnku sooo v much..all of u...

Clairebear79, i think i might try pushing the nap fwd as u said, cos i really dnt think a bedtime earlier than 8 pm is a possibility for us..but will still try,,hopefully his wake up time will push fwd and things woudl b alrighht....

Little toes I know it takes time..It took me like 6 months to wean him off rockign and patting and all the other props..and I still sometimes rock him in the middle of the night if its too much for me..but @ bdtimes /nap times, he does put himself to sleep. I m hoping its the milk prop as well as the time tweaking that is waking him up still in the middle of the night..hopefully when hes adjusted to that...things wuld improve...fingers crossed