7 month old, up VERY frequently ALL night long!

[Mrsv4]

DD is 7 months old and generally has a very easy temperament (textbook baby.  She is our 3rd child and we've used baby whisperer for all (although not as much this time as it's hard with two older ones) Anyhow, she wakes sometimes every 30 min, 1 hour, sometimes 2 hours ALL night long, every NIGHT for the last 2 months.  Prior to this, she's was only waking once sometimes twice.  At the time, I thought it had to do with her needing to start solids because she seemed to increase how much she was nursing (back to every 3 hours during the day and wanting to feed more at night).  My doctor still recommended I wait until she was 6 months (even though she was already almost 20 lbs).  I started solids at 6 months and she took really well to solids.  Over 1.5 weeks she progressed to 3 meals (she was HUNGRY) and nursing went back to every 4 hours through the day.  From 6 months until about 1.5 weeks ago she started having some longer naps (1.5 hours - she had been having 35 min naps since 2 months of age).  However, the nights never got better, as her GI system took a good month to adapt to solids (she had constipation and very gassy).  1.5 weeks ago we went on vacation, and we were busy every day, she was only napping maybe 2 short cat naps in a 12 hour period.  At night she slept with DH and I, but very restless.  

Since we've come home (3 days ago).  She's only sleeping 30 min naps and is yawning and rubbing her eyes after 1.5 hours in the morning (and can only go about that long after a 30 min nap).  We're napping her in her crib (like before the trip) and it's taking us 30 min to get her down for the nap.  Before this it would take 10-15 min. and she'd roll over and go to sleep (sometimes wanting to hold our hand).  She does use a soother at naps and bedtime, but it generally falls out shortly after she falls asleep.  

The day before we left for our trip she started wanting to roll ALL the time.  So, she wants to practice at nap/bedtime.  She's also been making strange and starting to whine a bit when I leave the room, and I think she's teething (no teeth yet, but her cheeks are very flushed these last few days). Mix this with her being extremely OT and I'm at a loss of where to start.

Our EASY these last few days looks like this (give or take 30 min):

Wake 7am - breastfeed
7:45 - Breakfast.
8:30 - Nap
9:00 - Wake
10:30 - Breastfeed 30 min early because she's tired and whiney by this time.
11:00 Nap
11:30 Wake and have lunch
1:00pm Nap
1:30 Wake
3:00 Breastfeed and has often been refusing nap even though visibly tired
4:30 Supper
6:00 breastfeed and then Bedtime (and very OT by this time)

Then awake VERY frequently all evening and night.  As the night gets later (after midnight) sometimes the only thing I can do is feed her to get her back to sleep - I feed her laying down in my bed.  (her crib is in our bedroom).   Please if you have any advice!! I'm at a loss, and we're all in need of a good night's sleep.

[ZacsMumme]

HUGS sounds like she has a lot going on ATM developmentally and with those pesky teeth!
Have you tried medicating before BT and naps for a few days to see if it makes a difference, teething can cause quite a bit of discomfort...?

Does your LO suffer from reflux at all?
Have you tried anything to help with the wind/gas ie gripe water, infacol or probiotics for the digestive system?

She really needs more A time - especially that first one as it can affect how long your LO will nap for, and obviously if that nap is too short from UT the rest of the day can result in OT (UT/OT loop) I know its hard to keep them up, but she should be able to do at least 2.5 hrs A before her nap. At this age a lot of grizzling etc can be for other reasons than being tired such as boredom, hunger, wanting a change of scene or OS.

What do you think? x

[Mrsv4]

Hi! Thanks!!
We have never had issues with reflux, and actually that same night after I posted the above message DD spiked a fever and has had a bad cold.  Her sleep has been horrendous but seems to be a bit better today (fingers crossed).  I have tried the advil for teething pain the last few nights, but she's been sick, so hard to say if it helped or not.

I tried to keep DD up longer today prior to naps and we had two 50 min naps and one 35 min nap.  So definetly an improvement (although she seems to wake after 20 or 30 min and I have to re-settle her).  My question is do you think I should keep her up at least 2.5 hours in the morning if she's had a horrible nights sleep?  Like last night she would not settle for the night until 9pm, and literally was awake every 20 min. ALL night until 4am and was up for the day.  We tried until 6am to re-settle her and then the other kids woke.  Also, if she has only had a short nap (30-50 min), should I keep her up the full 2.5 hours???  The other issue is with these short naps, she's due for another nap usually around 5:30 which is too late for one if we want her going to bed at a decent time.  But 5:30 is too early for bed (and she won't be hungry for her last nursing session cause she just ate supper an hour before), so we kept her up and in the end she rolled around in her crib for a long time and didn't fall asleep until 7pm (so OT), then she woke 20 min later and I had to resettle her.  :S

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, being sick can mess up sleep bit time!
I would definitely give the longer first A time a go, things can't get much worse anyway if she is waking at 20 mins. I also think if she is more tired you may e able to APOP her back to sleep easier if you have too.

Being awake so frequently at night does still point to discomfort to me. How often is your LO having solids and what is she eating? Did the NW coincide with the intro of solids?

[Mrsv4]

Hi, the frequent night wakings started when she was 5 months old.  It also corresponded with wanting to nurse more during the day.  I think she was ready for solids but my doctor said I should still wait.  Then things seemed to be getting better once we started solids, but then the issues with gassiness and constipation started.  However in the last 2 or so weeks her bowels seem to have improved.  Not as gassy and bowels movement have regulated and are soft.  She doesn't seem to be in as much discomfort.  Last night now that she can breathe a little easier, she only woke twice in the first few hours after she went down, and settled by us plugging her soother in.  Then woke at 2am and wanted to be fed.  Then again at 430, she wouldn't settle, and didn't want to nurse, but settled to sleep soon as I layed her beside me in our bed (which I'd like to get away from, since I don't sleep well with her in our bed), and woke for the day at 710am.  She just went down for her first nap at 940am.  We will see how this one goes!!!

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, are you offering solids after 4pm? If so I would try to avoid it at this age, often this can cause digestion issues later on in the night.

How did your day go?

[Mrsv4]

Hi, sorry so long getting back.  Our computer has been actting up.  
We're not doing much better.  She is up 10-12 times a night.    We have had a little success with naps.  2.5 hours of A time always gives us a 30 min nap.  But by backing A time back to 2 hours 10min she'll sometimes do a 1 hour 20 min nap.  Hard to be so exact though with timing.  Even 10 min past that A time and we'll get a short nap. But also this week she's just rolling around in her crib, jibber jabbing, so A time ends up being longer and thus a short nap.  Today she only did 3-30 min naps, but wouldn't go to sleep when she seemed tired.  
I think she is consitpated, has been having a hard time since starting solids.  i thought it was getting sorted out, but it hasn't.  So, we've cut out baby cereal and are sticking to foods that help.  Also, I think part of the night issue is that she wants to co-sleep and nurse all the time.  They're props.  I just don't know where to start to change this.  Should I say i'm not going to nurse her until after a certain time? Go cold turkey?  Not bring her to out bed, except for after a certain time??  On a good night she'll have 5 wakings, with nursing at 10pm, 2am and 4:30am.  Which feed would you cut out first?  She also has a soother.  Not conviced it's an issue, but soemtimes just plugging it back in does settle her.  ??
Oh she naps in her crib and goes to sleep on her own (with soother most often).  I am usually in the room, standing next to the crib.  Sometimes just with a gentle hand on her leg or holding her hand.  But she falls asleep in her crib for naps and bedtime.

Wanted to add that even though her sleeping is horrendous she's still a very happy baby.  Always smiling and laughing.  She's very content, never whines or cries.  It amazes me.

[Mrsv4]

So last night we did a bit better.  DD went to bed at 7:40ish.  She woke up at 8:15pm.  We plugged the soother in and she settled.  She then woke again at 9:15pm.  She wouldn't settle, but I decided I was not going to nurse her (it had only been 2.25 hours since she last ate).  So we stayed with her and tried to comfort her in her crib.  We picked her up a few times when she was crying really hard then put her back down when she calmed.  After about 40 min of this she finally calmed and settled back to sleep in her crib!!!!  And slept until 1am!!!  At 1am she was really rooting, and I was ok with feeding her at this point because it had been 6 hours since her last feed and she was probably genuinely hungry because she's used to getting so many calories at night.  So I nursed her sitting up in a chair instead of our usual feeding lying down in bed.  She took a full feed and I put her back in her crib and she settled right back to sleep.  At 4:45am she woke.  We tried settling her for 25 min or so, but she wasn't going to sleep so since it had been over 4 hous since she fed, I nursed her (again she took a full feed), and she settled back to sleep until 6:45am!!!!  My plan is to gradually push this last feed later and later before I'll feed her (like not feed her until 5:25am after another night or two), until we get it to normal morning wake time.  Does this make sense???  Any other recommendations or suggestions???  Now to see how the day goes!!!

[ZacsMumme]

I honk your bang on Hun. The nursing is becoming a prop. I would def Ty to reduce right down to 1 NF over a period of time. What a great night!

Also, try to give her practice and replug going the paci herself so you don't have to do this at night for her. xx

[Mrsv4]

Well we had a FANTASTIC day!!  Her EASY today looked like this:

E - 645 Wake and breastfeed
     730 Breakfast 
S - 845-1015 (1.5 hours!) (rubbing her eyes, and went straight to sleep in her crib)
E - 1100 Breastfeed
     1145 Lunch
S - 1225-1:55pm (1.5 hours!) Went straight to sleep again.
E - 3:00pm breastfeed
     4:00pm Supper (we were late because we were outside)
S - 4:25-5:00pm (35 min).
E - 7:00pm Breastfeed
S - We had her in bed by 710pm but she rolled and played until 8pm (so a 3 hour A time). 

So her morning A time seemes to be best at 2 hours, and during the day 2 hours 10min.  We've always noticed that she's most awake after supper/early evening (even in utero   Is this normal to have the longest A time before bed??

[ZacsMumme]

It is normal for some LOs to have a long first or last A really so that is fine that she has a longer A to BT.

her A times are very short for a 7 month old though so keep an eye on them. If you start to get EW or lots of NW - parties in the crib etc then you know you need to up them closer to 3hrs.

Good luck for tonight, if you keep strong on those NF timings etc hopefully you will find you have less NW.

[Mrsv4]

Hi!  Well the nights are getting better.  The second night in, she woke at 10pm and took until 11 to settle, then woke at 1:30am and I fed her, then again at 5:30am and I fed her.  Last night she didn't wake at all at the 10pm time (yay!!), but woke at 12:30am and I fed her (although seemed a little early), then woke at 3am and needed help to be settled (about 15 min), then woke at 4:30am for a feed, and up for the day at 7am. 

Where her wake up times are all over the place, I'm not sure what to do next?  Ideally I'd like to get her to one feeding around 2am.

Her naps haven't been as great the last two days as on Saturday, but it seems to be because she just rolls and tries to sit, crawl, etc.  Then by the time she does settle, she's OT and only sleeps 30 min.  So, today she only had 3 short naps, and thus has woke up a bunch of times since going to bed because she's OT.  Not sure where to go from here.

[ZacsMumme]

I really think you need to work on extending those A times. I know she settles well after 2 hrs but it is likely she is eating into an UT/OT loop which won't help the NW.

I think you need to start working on extending those A times by 15 mins (given you get a good nap) what do you think?

[Mrsv4]

I'll try it.  This morning DD was asleep by 2 hour 15 min and was up after 35 minutes   So now how long should the next A time be??? 

[ZacsMumme]

mmm Well at 7 months she should be able to do 3 hrs on a good nap. If you want to be brave you could try another 2hrs15 and see if it gets you a good nap. If so you know that she needs more A time. Or you can try a shorter A time, but really anything below 2 hrs for a 7 month old even after a short nap is likely to give you another short nap ie 30/35 or 45 min nap

have you tried going on cues for a few days? Is this where you get the 2hr A times working?