Author Topic: 10 mth old won't sleep through night  (Read 7108 times)

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Offline cuckoochick

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 19:13:21 pm »
The way your DD is reacting to her crib is understandable sweetie. :-* She is just resisting the unfamiliar. She is used to sleeping with you in your bed and is not used to being in her crib alone. When we started trying to break the co-sleeping prop (as I mentioned earlier) first of all I slept with DD on a mattress on a floor in DD's nursery so that she would get used to being in that room with me to build her confidence. We also did lots of playing in there in the day so that she learned that her cot was a nice place to be. Then we moved to sleep training so that she fell asleep in the cot so that when she woke she knew where she was. If your DD is going to sleep in your arms and then waking in her cot it is bound to startle her the change to being lowered in the cot. This was exactly how my DD was. It could take attempt after attempt to put her down asleep for her to wake up and then we had to rock her to sleep over and over until we eventually got lucky (or she was so exhausted she stayed asleep). Your DD is going to find it difficult to resettle herself in the cot if she doesn't know how to put herself to sleep in the cot in the first place, kwim? I know this is a scary prospect but getting her to settle herself will be the best thing when you are ready.

Getting your LO to fall asleep in her cot can be done without leaving her to CIO because you will be there with her and not leaving her alone. There probably will be tears as your LO learns how to self-settle (I already told you it wasn't half as bad as I imagined it to be). The WD routine you have started sounds lovely and you can nurse before bed but you need to try to put her down drowsy but awake and then comfort her in the crib (without picking up if possible) until she goes to sleep, gradually decreasing the amount you comfort her as the days go by. Even if you are just sitting by the cot with your hand through the bars and telling her it is ok, you are there to comfort her. If you give in after half an hour then all the distress that you and your DD will have gone through will have been for nothing. I would say that to start sleep training you have to feel ready that you can commit to it and not give up. It might take a long while for your DD to settle herself the first time she does it but it will get quicker and with less crying the more she learns the skill. Would you believe it if I told you my DD dives into her bed at night now?! She loves her cot and sleep training was the best thing we ever did because we were all so much more rested.

Have you read any of the stickies in the FAQs on the PU/PD board?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=89.0

How have your naps been getting on? Did she sleep any longer after a longer A time?

Hugs :)




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Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 19:32:15 pm »
Hugs, the most important thing to realize here is that it won't be easy and it will be a slow process, even if you are consistent and stick with it. It could take weeks.

I understand it is stressful, but after trying 6 timeand giving up is just reinforcing the habit. Your LO will think it just takes that much misery to get to the point of falling asleep how she is used to.

This isn't her adult, but it's what she knows. To change this itwill be hard, but the difference between CIO and what you are doing is you are there with your LO through it. Yes it's hard, but you are helping your LO through this, comforting them rather than abandoning them and breaking their trust in you.

Getting her in her crib during her A times to play will help her get used to it, maybe play peek a boo through the slots or when you are putting things away in her room give he a toy to play with in it.

Maybe given you know that she doesn't need to be fed to sleep your DH should give the next 3 days a shot to get her in the cot drowsy. What do you think?
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline 2ndTimeAround

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 21:11:28 pm »
Today DD went down for her nap at 11 (BF to sleep) and I transferred her to her crib while in quiet sleep where she slept until 12:45.  She didn't want an PM nap but ate a big supper so maybe she was hungry:)

I researched another' method.  Is this a good one to try?  I also looked into LO's sleep cycle and figured out that we were trying to transfer her to her crib when she was in REM sleep which is why she would wake up straight away.  

My DH is on vacation 2nd week in May so we thought this might be a good time to try the crib again.  My DD is cutting her top teeth so hopefully they will have come thru by then and we will have success:)

If I try the 'Ferber' method which seems okay even if I tweak it a bit, what do I do when the LO is crying and won't soothe herself and just wants to be picked up?  As of now she doesn't want you to rub or pat her.  She kicks, arches her back cries
and screams.  Do I leave her in her crib all the while pat/rub and saying words of encouragement? And if this doesn't work what happens if we do pick her up?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 23:50:52 pm by ZacsMumme »


Offline 2ndTimeAround

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 21:15:41 pm »
PS she doesn't mind being in her crib to play so we are definitely making progress with her becoming familiar with it:)


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2012, 21:41:33 pm »
I am not 100% familiar with this method but I believe it involves CIO/CC which i would strongly advise against. Have a read of why BW and Tracey were so against leaving a baby to cry alone.

I know it's tough, but please don't leave your LO to cry. I have asked someone who has been through this method of training to post their experience first hand, but basically you are breaking your baby's trust in you, they don't learn anything other than to preserve energy be ause you won't come. It is a survival instinct.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=211289.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=222275.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163042.0
Hang in there xx

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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline cuckoochick

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2012, 21:53:38 pm »
I would absolutely agree with Sara about avoiding using any form of CIO method.


We can help you if you are ready to commit to sleep training. It depends upon the pace at which you want to go. If you want to keep the props and just getting her to sleep in the crib (but I personally think this will be difficult as you've found when trying to put her down when she's asleep) or if you want to just go for it and do full-on sleep training in the crib and self-settling with you and/or your DH there to help your DD.

We can help but we have to be directed by you because you know your DD best. As Sara said, hang in there. I'm off to bed as it's 11pm UK time but keep posting :-*




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Offline 2ndTimeAround

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2012, 21:57:59 pm »
I am for sure against the CIO method.  I didn't think this method was to let baby CIO but good to know.

The question I keep coming back to is what do I do when I put LO in her crib awake but drowsy and she cries the first night we try this and beyond?  So LO is crying in her crib just after we lay her down, how do we handle this?  Can we pick her up?  Do we keep her in the crib the whole time but stay with her for the duration of the night?  This is where I am so confused.  We know we have to put her in her crib drowsy but we don't know how to correctly soothe her so she learns for herself to self-settle.  What if she cries the entire time she is in her crib that first night?  One night my DH stayed in her room with her in her crib. She was crying loudly so he would look up, check on her, lay her back down and repeat.  This went on for 1.5hrs and she wasn't happy.  He didn't pick her up tho.  Was this the right thing to do and should we have continued b/c we gave up thinking there was no way she was getting tired.  She seemed to just be getting more upset.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 23:50:27 pm by ZacsMumme »


Offline 2ndTimeAround

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2012, 22:28:46 pm »
Is there a thread someone can put here so I can read where to begin with this process?  I have read some threads on PU/PD but don't know where to start since DD is 10 mths.  I don't know if I start at the beginning with picking up like you do with an infant or do I start at DD's real age and use only my voice? I should have started this process much earlier. 

I agree Nicola, I think we want to nip the self-settle and crib to sleep all at once.  I don't want to drag this process on any longer then we need to.  You all have been so helpful and knowledgeable.  My DS who is 10 was born with Cleft lip and palate and because of this he couldn't bf b/c he couldn't latch.  For that reason I pumped for 6 months straight every 3 hrs.  He never slept in bed with me b/c he didn't need to so that's why I am so confused with all this stuff lol.


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2012, 23:31:48 pm »
Okay Hun I think I understand what you are saying...you don't feel you understand the full process well enough to start is that right? If so then you are doing the right thing waiting and asking questions. You need to feel in control and that your LO is safe and ok too through this, but how to get through the tough bits!

you are right 1.5 hrs is a long time, and I think I would have given up too! Let me have a look around the boards and see if I can find some good info.

In the meantime can you tell us what you think she will accept or at least find comforting as a form of helping to settle other than being fed to sleep or being put in the cot asleep. 
***Sara***
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline 2ndTimeAround

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2012, 23:49:27 pm »
unfortunately she likes being held:(  or nursed but that seems to be the only way to comfort her.  And yes you are right, I don't fully understand the process or where to start.***sigh***


Offline cuckoochick

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2012, 19:51:21 pm »

The question I keep coming back to is what do I do when I put LO in her crib awake but drowsy and she cries the first night we try this and beyond?  So LO is crying in her crib just after we lay her down, how do we handle this?  Can we pick her up?  Do we keep her in the crib the whole time but stay with her for the duration of the night?  This is where I am so confused.  We know we have to put her in her crib drowsy but we don't know how to correctly soothe her so she learns for herself to self-settle.  What if she cries the entire time she is in her crib that first night?  One night my DH stayed in her room with her in her crib. She was crying loudly so he would look up, check on her, lay her back down and repeat.  This went on for 1.5hrs and she wasn't happy.  He didn't pick her up tho.  Was this the right thing to do and should we have continued b/c we gave up thinking there was no way she was getting tired.  She seemed to just be getting more upset.

This sounds about right to me. The first few times it might take a long time. We were lucky and the longest DD cried for was 45 mins at BT one evening but the amount of time that it took did decrease and so did the amount of crying iykwim? For some people when sleep-training they keep a record of how long it took for their LO to fall asleep so that they can see the progress they are making (time decreasing, less comforting etc).

I'm pretty sure that the PD method as Tracey outlines for bubs your DD's age would be to PD and not PU. You can try to PU but that just made my DD so much worse when we put her back down again because I'm sure she was thinking, oh mum is picking me up to rock/cuddle me to sleep and then was being put down again. I think the age that your DD is you would be doing PD only if she gets up and is crying, lie her back down and say your sleepy phrase (For us it was " Shhh, it's sleepy-time C"). You will need to stay in the room with her until she is asleep initially because this is all so unfamiliar to her.

I know that you are worried you will have no way of comforting your DD and that will be difficult for you. This process is not easy but once you start you won't regret it. Of course anything that you do to try and comfort your DD will not be as readily accepted as the breast or being held because that is familiar and your DD will be upset/angry but I am sure that you will find something that comforts her (just placing your hand on her, stroking her back/forehead/hair, singing). When we started sleep training, DD at that point didn't have a lovey so we did it without and introduced the lovey a few months later.

So WRT a plan, it's usually better to start sleep training from the first nap of the day because then it gives your LO a chance to get the hang of things by the evening. Usually for naps you would try to get her to settle for 45mins (you could do less) and then if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up for a wee time and then try again a while later. For BT and any NWs that you do not intend to nurse you would stick with the process until your DD goes to sleep. If you give in after an hour you are just teaching your LO to hold out longer and that you will eventually give in and also your LO will have gone through all of that upset for nothing. I know this is the hard part and for me it is why I kept putting off the sleep training because I wasn't sure that I was ready for it and I knew once I started I couldn't turn back. I will ask some other people for their opinion with regards to feeding at night for you.

Is there anything else you need to know? Please don't be afraid to ask very direct questions so that we can answer them and prepare you as best we can. No question is a silly question iykwim?





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Offline 2ndTimeAround

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2012, 21:07:00 pm »
So I just want to clarify: 

Start sleep training for her AM nap.  Don't PU but PD as need be and stay with her to help her settle for as long as it takes or if DD won't settle.  Do the same for BT.

What do we do if DD won't settle after let's say an hr?  Is there a cut off in the NW or when we 1st put LO down in the evening that we PU and try again later or is that just for naps?  Also, what about the feeding through the night?  She usually either nurses or takes a bottle at least once thru the night.  Do we stop this?  If not, what do we do when it's time to feed her?


Offline cuckoochick

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2012, 21:38:29 pm »
For naps try for 45 mins and if she doesn't fall asleep by then, then get her up, take her downstairs and do a low key A time and then try again a little while later. Don't give up and nurse/rock to sleep.

For BT and NWs you'd keep going for as long as it takes so yes, it could be a long/short time depending upon how your DD responds. :-*

How many times does your LO nurse at night? I've asked for more opinions on the nursing at night for you. My DD STTN the day we started sleep training at 6.5mos so I've no personal experience of cutting out the night feeds. Hopefully someone will be along soon. 

:)




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Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2012, 00:42:21 am »
For BT and NWs you'd keep going for as long as it takes so yes, it could be a long/short time depending upon how your DD responds.
This is the hard part I guess, you and DH need to be mentally prepared for up to a week of really awful sleep and a lot of crying. ear plugs have been recommended by past mums in this position, as has having DH take time off work so during the day you can take turns and rest when you need to to prevent yourselves getting too exhausted. With exhaustion comes stress and you are more likely to give up.

It is really important to understand that the crying, as awful as it is - is your LOs way of communication. She is angry, frustrated and not sure why you have just taken away her comfort item for sleep! She needs to learn to sleep without it. However, if you are with her as opposed to leaving her alone if may be harder for you, but it is so much better for her! She isnt left alone, scared and feeling abandoned. You are helping her through the process.

So many hugs. Nic has given you great advice. x
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Shiv52

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Re: 10 mth old won't sleep through night
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2012, 10:44:32 am »
How many times does your LO nurse at night? I've asked for more opinions on the nursing at night for you. My DD STTN the day we started sleep training at 6.5mos so I've no personal experience of cutting out the night feeds. Hopefully someone will be along soon.
At 10 months your LO does need a feed in the night and if you are going to all the effort of sleep training it is probably best to just cut it now rather than put all this effort in and then have to do it again to drop the NF. 

How are you getting on? I agree with the girls that the nursing to sleep is the biggest issue and it will be hard to break it but well worth it.   And I also agree that it is best to only use PD, not PU and not use the rockign etc you were using because you dont' want to trade one prop for another. 

My friend weaned feeding to sleep about this age and the first night her DD screamed for 5.5 hours at the first NW as she wanted to be fed.  her DH just sat by the cot and reassured her and the  next night it was an hour and then after that it was seconds. 

Holding your hand while you get started xx