Author Topic: Nine Month Old STILL wakes up CONSTANTLY and I am SOOOO Ready To Be Done  (Read 5591 times)

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Offline RebekahDSC

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We've tried this and that and just about everything in between, but my nine (almost 9.5) month old will NOT sleep!  She has never, not ever, not once in her whole entire life sttn 7-7.  Her longest stretches ever are maybe 6-8 hours or so, but these are very rare and something to be majorly celebrated!  Most of the time she wakes 3-4 times throughout the night.

I only nurse her once, when she wakes and it has been at least 4 hours since her bedtime feed.  Usually this is between 11pm-12midnight.  If the waking is less than 4 hours since the bt feed or after her night feed, I make sure she has the pacifier and re-settle her by putting my hand on her and staying in there until she seems sleepy enough and then trying to sneak out and holding my breath that she won't cry when I leave the room.

I am so sick of this.  I never dreamed it would go on for so long.  I don't want to do CIO but seriously I am so ready to be done with this! She is more than 9 months for goodness sake! I desperately need a real night of sleep - just 8 consecutive hours, even 6 on a regular basis!  I don't know if I can do this much longer. :-[

For the last 3 weeks or so I have been writing down her wake-up, nap, bedtime, and night waking times, in hopes of seeing some kind of pattern.  Mostly it just seems random.   :-\ I can type it all up if you think it might help, but here are some samples (not necessarily consecutive). Nw means night waking.  Time/Time at beginning of nap means first time is when I tried to put her to sleep (put her in the crib) and second time is when she actually went to sleep. Time/Time at end of nap means first time is when I started to hear her waking up and second time is when I went to get her.

Day 1
Awake 7:15
Nap 10:45-12:20
Nap 3:50/3:55-5:20
BT 7:40/7:45
NW 8:50
NW 10:55
NW 12:05 (feed)
NW 4:55
(heard at 6:10 but didn't have to go in)

Day 2
Awake 6:45/7:00
Nap 10:30-12:00
Nap 3:30-4:20/4:35
BT 6:55/7:05
NW 10:40 (feed)
NW 2:50
NW 3:35

Day 3
Awake 7:00
Nap 10:30/10:35-11:40/11:55
Nap 3:10-4:40
BT 7:15/7:25
NW 8:30 (10-15 min)
NW 2:25 (feed)
NW 5-something

Here is her EASY.  Recently her naps have shortened to where she usually won't sleep a whole hour and a half, but sometimes she surprises me.  The exact times are approximate.  First and Second A times=3hours, 30 min, Last A time= about 2 hours, 30 min

Awake 7:15
Nurse 8:00
Solids 9:05
Nap 10:45-12:00ish (sometimes 12:15)
Nurse 12:20
Solids 1:25
Nap 3:30-4:45 (sometimes 5:00)
Nurse 4:45
Solids 5:45
Nurse 6:50
Bedtime 7:15
 
I thought she was OT since she often wakes in the first few hours after BT, but maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.  Here sleep is just such a mystery....  :'(  Is there really an end to all this?  It feels like it will never end.  I'm really getting scared too, since I know she's probably coming up on the sleep gone wonky stage PLUS we are moving in about a month and a half and who knows what that will do.  Will I ever get a full night's sleep? (and I mean before she is a teenager...)

Thank you SOOO much for taking the time to read all of this and help!!!!





Offline becj86

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Huge hugs! I know how hard you worked even just preparing to start EASY, let alone getting it all tweaked! 

If its any comfort (and I doubt it is) this is probably at least partially temperamental with a spirited. I suspect the naps shortening mean you're about to begin moving to one nap + a CN  and into sleep gone wonky territory once again :-\ I know that until we hit more teething, its actually been better at night for DS since he's dropped some day sleep as he can truly explore enough during his A times now, so it *might* not all be bad.

I'll just throw some ideas out there for you to consider:

I wonder if she's getting enough physical activity? DS really needs it to be able to sleep - if he didn't move for 95% of his A time, his arms and legs would wave about (long after the Moro reflex was gone) and he wouldn't be able to sleep or it would wake him up.

It could be that SA is starting to come into it - lots of peek-a-boo games during A time should help if its that.

What about light/noise levels in her room? Can she see enough to know where she is? Is there a little too much light and she can see exciting things when she wakes and won't go back to sleep? Is she being disturbed by echoes or ambient noise? Does she have white noise? Is it loud/soft enough? Does it stop at some particular point in time?

Lastly, you're not alone. There are a few ladies here who have LO's whose sleep is still a puzzle at this age and beyond. Maybe you need to work out a way to hand her over to someone for a night so you can get a good sleep in? I know DS used to sleep so much worse if he could pick up on my anxiety, frustration and even sometimes anger  :-\ :-[

Offline RebekahDSC

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Becj86, you are the best! Thank you so much for being there for me, even from the very beginning! ;)  It truly has helped and does help a TON! You know, as horribly sleep-deprived as I still am, we have come a long, long way from chronic 45 minute naps, every 2.5 hour nursings, and 3-4 night feeds!  And even though the months of so little sleep are terrible, EASY at least keeps me from going completely insane!  THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Hmm... I've wondered if she could be starting the transition to one nap.  I'm surprised it's this young though, because she went to two naps so late!  Actually, there have been 5 nights in the last 3 weeks that I have been writing things down that she has miraculously only needed me to come in once (for her one feed), and 3 out of those 5 nights were after a short (about 1 hour long) second nap.  I don't know, though, if this means I should cut her second nap short, or if it means on those days she went down for that second nap less tired and therefore wasn't OT by the end of the day.  And two of the nights she only needed me once were after longer second naps, so that isn't always the key.  Do you think I should wake her after an hour long second nap?  Even if her first nap was only an hour and 15 minutes?  When babies go to one nap, isn't it usually a few hours long?  So shouldn't she need more day sleep than that?  Plus, don't her night wakings seem more OT than UT?  Sorry for all the questions... I just have to pick the expert's brains! ;)

Wow, I think you could be right on with the lack of physical activity.  I guess it will be a good thing when she starts truly crawling!  And I probably ought to take her outside more.  I will try that tomorrow...

I definitely think SA is playing a role.  She is even worse now than she used to be at wanting me to stay in the room as she falls asleep. And during the day she cries when I leave the room, even if she is with her adored daddy!  :P  It's flattering, but frustrating!  ::)  We're working on the peek-a-boo and we'll definitely keep that up!

She has black trash bags over her window to keep the room dark and a fan going for the white noise.  I don't know whether these help or not...

My DH is super supportive, but he is the deepest sleeper I have ever met!  Unless she cries for a really long time, he totally sleeps through the whole thing! :P I, on the other hand, wake as soon as she makes a peep (or screech as is usually the case with her!  ;)) He has offered to sleep on her floor for a night in hopes that he would actually wake when she does, but I feel bad having him do that, especially when he is in school full-time, plus even when he gets up with her I am awake anyhow and when he IS home I need him to be fresh to watch her so I can nap and try to catch up on lost sleep!  :P

Thanks again! :)





Offline becj86

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Logan started the transition around the age of your DD - just down to one 1.5hr nap and a 45min-1hr nap which I cut back to 30min, then 20 and now the CN is pretty much gone. It comes in if we swim for 2-2.5hr in the morning and he naps earlier and I have to pick DH up from the boat so BT has to be later. Some go to a 3hr single nap :o :o. Logan has just dropped the CN and stuck with 2hr day sleep (occasionally 2hr15min) but I get 12-13hr most nights though if it's 13, I do a NF to get him through the last 1.5-2hr.

I don't think that her NW's can really be categorised as all OT or all UT - they're happening every night and seemingly no correlation to day sleep or anything else from what you've said  :-\ I think she probably went to two naps late because she was getting onto EASY and catching up on sleep a bit, so not really an indicator for the rest of the napping changes :)

I would try increasing her first A time, get a good nap in first up and if its 1.5hr or over, cap the next nap at 1hr. Not sure if it was you I wrote out my 'general rules' for... I will try to find it. It worked for Logan, may not work for your DD but you're better to judge that than I am  ;)

Physical activity before crawling: hmmm, what about swimming? I don't know where you are but swimming is really great cardio and getting used to the water is good. Doesn't matter if they're not coordinated in the water as you can keep hold of her and she can move however she likes without having to think too much about it :)

For SA, there's a really important thing against sneaking out - there's a sticky somewhere, I shall have a look. You have to say goodbye (or similar) and let her know you're going and help her 'get' object permanence. Totally understand the flattering but frustrating thing. It can make our poor men feel so out of it when LO only wants mummy. I did a lot of leaving him somewhere safe, saying 'bye Logan, I'm going to do x and I'll be back in a minute' and coming back, lengthening time away for a while and its really helped - always attended to him if he was crying though.

Logan's first noise upon waking at that age was a yelp which sounded like he'd been stuck with a hot poker (sudden, loud and anguished) but often he'd find his dummy and go back to sleep after that with no intervention and now he just kinda grunts/whimpers...

Glad you have a supportive DH who is on board. Mine thought BW was crazy (babies sleep like babies, right?) but let me get on with it (so I did all sleep training by myself while he was away :P ) but is now picking it up and can work out BT from awake time and nap time/length :) Its only taken nearly a year!

Offline becj86

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Well, I can't find those 'rules', sorry. I can find my post from when Logan was dropping that second nap down to a CN http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=221758.0

Offline scsparks06

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I might be totally wrong but I feel like her afternoon nap is too late. Perhaps she is UT at bedtime? If I let my 9mo old LO sleep until 5pm she'd never go to sleep. Of course we have also bucked tradition and she gets no more than a 3hr first A time, usually 2.5 hours. This means she gets an earlier morning nap, around 9/9:30am, an afternoon nap around 1:30 - 3 and then goes until 7. She's good and tired. This really helped us with the NW's 2 months ago. Maybe yours is going to one nap, but I guess I'd try something else first. It seems awful early for that. GL!


Offline Bex09

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Hi hun just wanted to chip in too with a few ideas to see if that helps.

Firstly Bec has given you great advice there and I do agree that your DD sounds like she is at the start of the 2:1 transition. My DD started this at 9 mo too and was consistently on one nap by 12 mo. So it certainly isn't too early for that. Just bear in mind that this is only the start with pushing A times out slowly and either capping one of her naps slightly or making her day a little longer. It can take months to actually get down to one nap and it takes lots of regular tweaking.

I also agree with scsparks that the pm nap is probably ending too late on some days. For us A time to bed was (and still is) crucial. I would try to make sure that you are getting a good decent A time to BT to make sure that your DD is tired enough at BT. Have you seen these links?...

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

HTHs.



Offline RebekahDSC

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Thank you so much for the replies!  :D Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back - things have been busy!  And I got some hope when earlier this week she did three nights in a row with only one nw  ;D, but now she is back to 3-4.   :'(  I know this post is going to end up REALLY long, but I am in need of a LOT of help here!

Okay, I do think the 2-1 transition has officially begun.  I don't think she'll be ready for one nap for quite awhile yet, however.  I have a feeling I'm going to be on here A LOT as we work through this transition!  ::)


I'm hoping to figure out the naps in hopes that they will help with the night sleep, but I'm starting to lose faith in this.  Her nws just seem so random, too!  I just desperately want to DO something to make them go away but I'm so lost as to what to do!  :-[

Ok, here are my thoughts on some of what you all so sweetly shared.  Some of my thoughts I won't bother addressing here because I'll share them later on when I list out the 4 plans I want to make from here (see below).

(Bec, I'm having trouble figuring out how to quote just part of your response at a time, so I'll put my response in italics...)
I don't think that her NW's can really be categorised as all OT or all UT - they're happening every night and seemingly no correlation to day sleep or anything else from what you've said  :-\
But if they are not OT or UT, what on earth are they?  ??? It's just so weird... she has some nights when she sleeps great (as mentioned earlier, earlier this week she did three nights in a row of only one NW!  ;D and then she goes back to 3-4 nws... I'm so lost!  And so frustrated!

Physical activity before crawling: hmmm, what about swimming? I don't know where you are but swimming is really great cardio and getting used to the water is good. Doesn't matter if they're not coordinated in the water as you can keep hold of her and she c :)an move however she likes without having to think too much about it :)
Great idea!  Guess what?! She just started crawling!!!  Swimming would be way fun, too, though! :)

For SA, there's a really important thing against sneaking out - there's a sticky somewhere, I shall have a look. You have to say goodbye (or similar) and let her know you're going and help her 'get' object permanence. Totally understand the flattering but frustrating thing. It can make our poor men feel so out of it when LO only wants mummy. I did a lot of leaving him somewhere safe, saying 'bye Logan, I'm going to do x and I'll be back in a minute' and coming back, lengthening time away for a while and its really helped - always attended to him if he was crying though.
I try to do this during the day, but does the same thing apply at night and for naps? I'm getting in the bad habit of staying there to help her fall asleep, then sneaking out very quietly once she does.  This didn't used to be such a problem, but now she cries whenever she is still awake and I leave the room.  Ugh!  :P

Logan's first noise upon waking at that age was a yelp which sounded like he'd been stuck with a hot poker (sudden, loud and anguished) but often he'd find his dummy and go back to sleep after that with no intervention and now he just kinda grunts/whimpers...
Hahaha!!!! This is the PERFECT description for what my DD sounds like when she wakes!  Hot poker, yep!! ;D

Glad you have a supportive DH who is on board. Mine thought BW was crazy (babies sleep like babies, right?) but let me get on with it (so I did all sleep training by myself while he was away :P ) but is now picking it up and can work out BT from awake time and nap time/length :) Its only taken nearly a year!
Aw man, good for you getting him converted! ;)

Well, I can't find those 'rules', sorry. I can find my post from when Logan was dropping that second nap down to a CN http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=221758.0
Thanks!  Is this what you were looking for? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=227264.msg2472711#msg2472711
I think the rules are great! What time does Logan wake in the morning?  It's hard to picture how I could get Emma to bed by 7pm with long A times and the way things are working now.  But I think the earlier BT might help her, and it seems somehow a lot of people manage it.  Would you mind posting your EASY?  I'm also trying to figure out how to work in feeds better, so that would help, too.  Thank you so much!

I might be totally wrong but I feel like her afternoon nap is too late. Perhaps she is UT at bedtime? If I let my 9mo old LO sleep until 5pm she'd never go to sleep. Of course we have also bucked tradition and she gets no more than a 3hr first A time, usually 2.5 hours. This means she gets an earlier morning nap, around 9/9:30am, an afternoon nap around 1:30 - 3 and then goes until 7. She's good and tired. This really helped us with the NW's 2 months ago. Maybe yours is going to one nap, but I guess I'd try something else first. It seems awful early for that. GL!
Thanks!  Hmm, how long is that first nap?  I don't think she'd sleep very long after such a short first A time.  I actually shortened the last A time based off of some advice I got on the EASY forum.  It actually helped at first.  Now I just don't know! Aren't UT nws usually long and happy and OT quick cry-outs?

I also agree with scsparks that the pm nap is probably ending too late on some days. For us A time to bed was (and still is) crucial. I would try to make sure that you are getting a good decent A time to BT to make sure that your DD is tired enough at BT.
How do you determine the ideal last A time?  As mentioned above, I actually shortened it based on some advice I got on the EASY forum and that helped some with the NWs at first.  It seems that's the trick with my DD - changes only help for a little while and then we go right back to square one!  I also got the advice to keep a consistent BT, even if it sometimes meant a really short last A time.  I'm having a hard time doing this, though, because my DD's days are all over the place! And I'm scared to have a 3 hour last A time one day and then 2 hours the next day!  Lately she is having a hard time going down at night, so maybe she needs a longer last A time.  Although I think this is mostly SA because she cries whenever I leave the room but is mostly fine when I am there.  At the moment I am very lost on how long to make that last A time and also how to have a consistent BT........






Here is what I am thinking as far as action from here.  I feel like we need to make four plans -

PLAN #1...How to arrange her EASY so the naps are getting her good, restorative sleep, which will hopefully help with the nights???

I like the idea of increasing the first A time to get a 1.5 hour or longer first nap, then capping the second nap at 1 hour.

Here's the weird thing:  Not only does the night sleep seem random, the nap lengths seem random too...  What on earth is going on here????  For instance, yesterday she did a good 3hr, 45 min first A time (the norm now) and then only slept for 1 hour, 10 min and would not go back to sleep. And that was after a bad night!  Then this morning I increased her A time only 5 min (3 hr, 50 min) and I had to wake her after 1 hr, 40 min because she was still sleeping and it was getting so late that I was getting worried about a super late BT!  And this is normal - random naptimes with little to no correlation with A times or seemingly anything!  ???

Should I increase the A time to 4 hours and hope she doesn't get OT and see what happens?  Or is she already OT?  I'm so confused...


PLAN #2... How to handle the sleep problems we are having with getting her to go to sleep without us there with her (MAJOR problem now that SA has come on full force)


PLAN #3...How to handle the NWs and short nap wakings.

TBH, DH wants to do the ferber method, and I'm tempted as well. We have had to do a modified version (very short intervals and staying in the room the whole time) a couple of times when we got desperate.  This is not my ideal, but I truly am starting to wonder if anything else will work with this girl.  We have gotten rid of every other crutch, and WE are the prop now... so somehow we have to get rid of us! (this also applies to plan #2)

PLAN #4...How to get rid of the NWs!!!!!! (okay, this MAY just be a part of the other plans, but it IS my ultimate goal!)

Wow! That ended up even longer than I'd expected!  Since there is so much to this, is it better if I do separate posts looking at each issue, or is it okay to keep this post going and try to tackle them together since they are all related?  Would you all be willing to help me come up with some definite, step-by-step plans we can put into place? I am so ready to make some decisions and ACT on them so that I at least feel like we are going in the right direction!  THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOO VERY MUCH!!!!

« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 03:53:52 am by RebekahDSC »





Offline Bex09

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Hi hun, will certainly help you on here yes. We did long am, short pm nap during 2:1 as that worked for us so can give you help with that. Best to keep all your questions in one place so you can get all your advice together. Am only on quick now as heading out but will be back with a proper reply later!

Just wanted to say please don't leave your LO to CIO or CC it will just result in DD losing trust in you and giving up hope that you will go to help her. There are more gentle ways to tackle NW on both of you. Have you tried shush/pat or PU/PD?

Initially I would only add 15 mins of A time to that morning A and then stick with it for a few days. You may find the random naps are due to swapping and changing A times a bit. Often consistency works and it takes a few days to see a change. HTHs for now.



Offline becj86

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Rebekah, Since you have those really varied nap lengths after about the same A time, I think its related to something other than just time... possibly stimulation level. I know you've been really careful not to get her OS, but US can be just as much an issue. So does she sleep better on days when you go out in the morning, when she plays with other kids, when she has some quiet time before her nap? I know at this age and still now TBH, I have to get out of the house and keep the stimulation up for Logan but give him the tools to cope before he gets overwhelmed.
I started that by making him a quiet corner with books, soft toys, a spare doona and a couple of pillows in his room. I took him there and read him a book or three til he was calm when he was getting frustrated while we were home. He now retreats there on his own if he needs to. He also seems to have translated that to getting out of the group when in large gatherings - just goes for a wander and comes back when he's ready to join in again.

Do you go in as soon as the hot poker yelp happens? I wonder if you need to hang back and list really carefully to see if she's just loud and mantra crying or if she's really needing you. If she pauses in between the cries (other than for breathing), then its probably a mantra even though its loud. It took a few days of hanging back and just waiting 30 secs to see if he really actually needed me and those NW's did decrease. How is she going with replugging?

Logan wakes somewhere around 6 in the morning - or he did when we had one nap and a CN. So at the age Emma is now, Logan was doing 3.75-4hr A from waking and a good 2hr of that was at the park swimming, playing, socialising, etc. I just let him go til he started falling over (he loses coordination when he's tired) then packed him up, he'd fall asleep in the 5min car ride, transfer to his bed and sleep for a good 1.75-2hr. Now that's obviously the ideal situation and I don't know if she transfers or how far you have to travel to/from a park...

Back when he's in bed :)

Ahhh... going to sleep a baby, waking up a toddler!

Woohoo!! Crawling! Way to go :)
Yes, that is the post... should've known it was on one of your threads :P

I'm not sure its a bad habit to stay with her til she's asleep, its only an issue if you don't want to do it long term which I'm willing to bet you don't. It was an issue for us after a while because he'd just keep playing/interacting even if I was "asleep" on the floor of his room  ::)  ::)  ::) I found holding him to sleep and gradually withdrawing that really helped, along with talking to him about what we'd done that day. So we'd do the BT routine and then I'd take him to his room and just stand beside his cot give him a good tight cuddle and talk him through the day then tell him I love him and its time for a nice long sleep and he'd be drowsy but not really asleep and he'd go to sleep ok from there. We did have to modify which lights we had on - one that didn't shine past his room was best and keep the noise down or have a constant noise (so not unpredictable noises) so he didn't feel like he was missing out on what DH and I were doing. This helped get us through the crying when I left stage. Believe me, it is a phase and it will pass - faster if you stick around and she feels confident in you being there when she needs you. I still did the goodbye thing but I just came back when he cried.

Now, if I were to apply those rules to your 'ideal' EASY that you posted before, I'd say its fine but you should wake her at 4:15 so she's not sleeping past 4 with a nap of more than 45mins.

Wow, that's a long post! I think I've answered most of it, by all means hold me to account if not. I totally get how frustrated you are at the moment and its so much easier said than done but I think you may benefit from winging it for a while and enjoying her. Relax, keep the general principles of EASY in mind but don't miss out on enjoying her for the sake of napping. Its so amazing watching these little munchkins soaking up their surroundings, exploring and learning. I think if you are able to relax a bit, things may just fall into place :)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 09:02:31 am by becj86 »

Offline Bex09

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Hi there, how are things going? Have you managed to add any A time to that morning A yet?

Have you seen this support thread? ... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=226104.0 It was brilliant for us when DD started the 2:1 transition. It just helps to chat to others going through the same type of issues.

Agree with Becky about how important the correct amount of stimulation/activity is. I notice that your DD is spirited so some things to bear in mind are that often spiriteds get very easily OS, so the last 30 mins before naps may need to be much more low key to help LO wind down. So maybe lots of physical play for the first part of A time and then a change of scenery to somewhere more quiet, stories, singing, etc. Also many spirited LOs seem to prefer a short wind down to naps, so maybe just a nappy change, quick song and cuddle and then to sleep. Much longer and it would result in our DD fighting sleep and protesting.

To answer your question about the ideal A time to bed, unfortunately that will be a bit of trial and error for you to work out the best time. It usually won't be that different to the other A times of the day, maybe 15 mins longer or shorter. I do agree with a set BT as that always worked for us too, I get what you mean about the varying A times leading to a set BT, but if we can get your naps and routine a bit more regular that shouldn't be as much of an issue.

I think the fact that changes work for a couple of days (like the earlier BT) may well be because your DD was OT, she then catches up when sleep is good for a few days and then needs a push in A times again when she is over the OT spell. Does that make sense? I think again getting the right A time will really help with naps and then in turn the NWs.



Offline malibu_nikkus

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Can I ask a question...if you cap the second nap, wouldn't that make for a long A time to bed or do you move the bedtime earlier? My LO is usually finished day naps by about 3.





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Offline malibu_nikkus

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Sorry, just saw the previous thread, thanks heaps!





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Offline RebekahDSC

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Thank you so much for the help!  Wow - I've been gone awhile!  Things have been crazy busy around here - my in-laws are back in the house, my parents came to visit, my husband graduated from the university, etc.  It's good to finally be back on the BW forum!

Becky, congrats and happy belated birthday to Logan!  How exciting!  Emma is coming up on 10 months this Saturday and it is truly amazing to see how she is growing!  When we started EASY she was just lying there and now, almost 5 months later, she is all over the place, crawling and pulling herself up to stand!  Craziness!  ;)

Have you tried shush/pat or PU/PD?
We've sort of done a modified version of shush/pat for most of her life. I've wanted to avoid PU/PD simply because months ago we worked super, super hard to teach her that night time was for staying in the crib and we would not pick her up out of bed. Now that she is sitting up in bed, though, maybe we could do put down??? Hmm...  The tricky thing is, most of her nws are quite quick, so I don't know how that would work.  Really we need them to not occur in the first place!


How is she going with replugging?
Okay.  She is awesome at it when she is awake.  When I come to get her after she wakes up she likes to sit up in bed and start grabbing the pacis... one in the mouth and one in each hand!  She's a paci addict!   ::) :) But at night (or at early nap wakings) she still wants us to put it in her hand for her.  I don't know if she has trouble finding them in the dark, or if she's just too emotional to try.  I've become hesitant to put them right next to her when I am trying to get her to go to sleep because she likes to grab them and play with them.  :P I guess maybe that is good practice learning that she can reach them in bed, though, so maybe I should just let her play for a few minutes and hope she gets bored quickly and goes to sleep!

Have you managed to add any A time to that morning A yet?
Yep! We're up to 4 hours now. At first I thought it was working some, but maybe not enough.  We went from typically 1 hr 15 min naps to typically 1 hour 20-25 min naps.  Now we seem to be slipping back to 1 hr 15 min.  Does that mean we need another increase?

I do wonder about the stimulation thing.  Most of the time we are home and relatively low key for her first A time. Actually, now that my husband is out of school, he watches her while I take a nap to recover from the night!  :-\ Maybe we should experiment with some more stimulation.  I tried taking her shopping recently but that didn't seem to do it.  I guess now that she is getting more mobile, she needs to be moving more, though, for it to be very stimulating.  I just have to get up the energy to get out of the house and moving with her!  If it worked, though, it would be worth it!!!

I think she does get OS fairly easily.  I LOVE the quiet corner idea!!! What a valuable life lesson Logan is learning! And she does like a short wind down.  Lately I feel like even the wind down isn't working all that well, though. :(  What did you all do for a wind down at this age?  

I probably do need to hold back a bit when she yelps.  At night I just kind of stagger in there in a sleepy stupor to get her back to sleep as quickly as possible so that I can sleep!  And during the day if it's a short nap I'm afraid for her to get too fully awake. I'll make an effort tonight to hold back a little and see what happens.

Emma usually wakes up around 7:15.  It's almost always between 6:30 and 7:30.  This is great, except that as her A times increase it leads to a late bt, a problem I have suspected for awhile contributes to her nws even when her A times are good.

You're right I'm getting really tired of having to be there with her until she falls asleep.  Plus, I want her to learn (er... re-learn, because she used to be good at it before separation anxiety kicked in) how to do the last stage of falling asleep by herself, because I want her to do this at night by herself.  I read in sleeping for toddlers about the gradual withdrawal method and this is what we have started.  We went from having our hand placed on her, to making it a very light touch, to having our hand just above her, and tonight I am starting leaning over the crib but with no hand out.  The goal is to gradually take steps back and eventually out the door.  Is this a bad idea if it is separation anxiety related? It feels really good to be actually taking some steps in the right direction!  :) Becky, when you would say goodnight and then he would cry and you would come back how long would you stay?

If she takes a semi-short first nap (1 hr, 15 min) she often wants about the same in her second nap.  I keep struggling to know how to handle that scenario?

I do get really uptight about her sleep, but that's largely because it affects my sleep so directly. It's hard to relax when she wakes up after a short nap and I am dreading the fact that this probably means a rough night to come.  I am surviving now on morning naps while my DH watches her, but when we move in a month he will have work early in the morning and that will all stop.  I want soooo badly to decrease these nws by then!  I'm actually surprised I've survived these last almost 10 months, because I'm a person who REALLY needs her sleep!

Bex09, thanks for the link!  It's nice to know I'm definitely not alone! :)

I think you could be right about the catching up on sleep when it is good for a few days... kind of an OT/UT loop that lasts for a few days!  :-\ So next time she has 3 days in a row of good sleep, should I automatically increase her first A time of the day?  Teething could also play a role.  She seems to be off and on with that constantly! (8 teeth already!!!  :o)

I keep wondering if her A times are even anywhere close to right!  We are at 4 hours, then 3.5 hours, then 2.5 hours.  This could be totally off though.  It's hard to tell when everything is so messed up, yk?

Thanks again!  I'm grateful to you all and BW for keeping me sane!  ;)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 04:21:44 am by RebekahDSC »





Offline becj86

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Congrats to hubby! Graduating is great :)

When I come to get her after she wakes up she likes to sit up in bed and start grabbing the pacis... one in the mouth and one in each hand!
Logan does this... still ::) We pick him up with them, then say 'put the dummy in the cot', pointing to each one and then to the cot and he drops them in and we say 'bye bye dummies' and he waves to them and we see them next time its time for a sleep.

Is this a bad idea if it is separation anxiety related? It feels really good to be actually taking some steps in the right direction!   Becky, when you would say goodnight and then he would cry and you would come back how long would you stay?
I think its a sensitive way to handle it when its SA-related :) Oh, and I would go back til he was calm again, say goodnight again and leave again.


What did you all do for a wind down at this age?
Nothing! Put him into bed with the toy he was playing with at the time it was nap time and he'd go to sleep. He associated his cot as a place for sleep and bringing the toy helped ease the transition from play to sleep ;)

If she takes a semi-short first nap (1 hr, 15 min) she often wants about the same in her second nap.  I keep struggling to know how to handle that scenario?
Two one-hour naps is what some LO's do as part of the 2-1... Around this time is when I made up those rules we referred to a few posts back. We soon replaced it with a long AM and a PM CN  and dropped the CN when his A times got too long to accomodate both naps in a reasonable-length day and did (and still do some days) a super-EBT (like 5 or 5:30). That doesn't work for everyone, but it has for us, so its not out of the question. I have found that a really long night helps enormously with recovering from OT.

Emma usually wakes up around 7:15.  It's almost always between 6:30 and 7:30.  This is great, except that as her A times increase it leads to a late bt, a problem I have suspected for awhile contributes to her nws even when her A times are good.
Late BT can mess with night sleep even if the day looks good because her body clock says to sleep at a certain time by now - related to the sun, probably... When this happens more often than not, its time to drop some day sleep.

I keep wondering if her A times are even anywhere close to right!  We are at 4 hours, then 3.5 hours, then 2.5 hours.  This could be totally off though.  It's hard to tell when everything is so messed up, yk?
I suspect her ideal A would be somewhere around the 4hr mark now. Honestly, I'd push through to the 4hr mark or as close as possible whenever possible, especially for the first A time. The consistency tends to help Logan.
I've become hesitant to put them right next to her when I am trying to get her to go to sleep because she likes to grab them and play with them.   I guess maybe that is good practice learning that she can reach them in bed, though, so maybe I should just let her play for a few minutes and hope she gets bored quickly and goes to sleep!
This is what Logan did for a while just before he replugged totally by himself, so maybe give it a go for a bit.

As for stimulation and needing to be moving - yes, yes and yes again. This is the physical stage at which we started going to the park every morning. Up & dressed, breakfasted and out the door. Plenty of time for a shower when LO is passed out exhausted from playing. Oh, and when at the park, they don't need as much input from you, so its easier than being at home with a bored LO who requires constant entertainment :)