Author Topic: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?  (Read 9943 times)

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Offline Tweakster

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For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« on: April 09, 2012, 17:18:27 pm »
I've heard a lot of you say that you enforce a rule of your kid having to at least try everything that is on the plate.  Just wondering how you get them to try it.  What are the consequences if they don't?  

We're in a bit of a picky phase again, based off what stuff 'looks' like and not what it tastes like.  He's lost interest in anything decent and yesterday drove me crazy asking for chocolate the entire day.  He doesn't want to eat proper food!  This is crazy because the amount of chocolate or anything remotely treat-like has been entirely limited for his 3 short years...we are following Anne's 'sometimes' food rules and we don't begrudge him the stuff or want him completely deprived of it (although anything candy or with dye I would be completely happy to see the back end of) but he's literally asking for it all.the.time.  We don't buy much of it and he doesn't get it on a daily basis.  Maybe the occasional weekend or week night I'll throw him some animal crackers or something.  But it's usually nothing or fruit.

Last night I made ham, steamed broccoli with cheese and sweet potato mash.  It was all very yummy.  He actually are the broccoli because he likes it that way...but he was refusing to try the ham and the sweet potato.  Eventually we got him to try the ham which he quickly snapped up and asked for more.  But the sweet potato took tons of work and he eventually did pick it up on his fork and dab it on his tongue at the front of the tongue and said 'I don't like that' but he hadn't really tasted it.  So I pulled the dessert card.  I had strawberries cut up for dipping in chcolate for dessert and so I said 'if you don't try it you don't get any'.  I felt bad but for some reason this really stuck in my craw that he wouldn't even put it in his mouth!  Eventually I talked to him about taste buds on our tongue and how we really couldn't only taste stuff at the front of our tongue but that we needed to fully put it in our mouths.  He finally agreed and made a big production out of it...only to like it and ask for more!

I get the concept that you should keep offering these foods but I'm loathe to make these meals and keep offering only for exposure sake when he typically refuses to even try something or I have to use punitive measures.

So again, how do you enforce that rule... maybe your kids are just really compliant? lol
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 17:20:20 pm by All4Finn »
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Offline Mama2boys

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 17:29:55 pm »
with DS1 its a family rule thing and I use that as a reinforcer. With DS2 well nothing works, but he is 2 and doe snot yet understand.

We talk and over explain and thats what works with DS1, so explain why we should try and use pats examples of when it worked and if all else fails we use house rules piece
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Offline Tweakster

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 17:32:12 pm »
And so I have already made it a rule...but I don't know what the consequence should be if he doesn't follow the rule...what is your consequence if DS1 refuses to try? And I mean literally says 'NO!' and purses his lips together lol
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Offline Mama2boys

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 17:39:36 pm »
i just say sorry thats not allowed, we all ahve rules and they have to be followed. TBH DS1 normally falls into line, but i would also reinforce with dessert so i'd have given him the berries not the chocolate as thats a sometimes thing IYKWIM

DS2 will probably do the whole NO thing though :(
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 18:00:24 pm »
We started pretty much the way you described your dinner tonight.  I wouldn't have had dessert sorted but I'm pretty sure I'd have said that if she didn't try it there would be nothing else tonight as I'd assume she wasn't hungry.  I didn't make it about eat this-then dessert, we simply talked about how our dinner time rule was everyone had to try everything on their plate.  A lot of talk about how if she didn't like it she didn't have to have anymore but it was good manners to try everything.  Loads of talk about how our bodies need different foods to grow and be strong and all that jazz then just the expectation but no real pressure.   We did have one night where there was a screaming drama over trying cauliflower cheese as i knew she'd like it.   I also offered dips to try new things and generally she'd eat anything if it were dipped in cheese sauce or ketchup. 

I think you did great tonight!





Offline rach321

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 18:59:14 pm »
Ours goes a bit like this - stolen from another BWer on here!
You have to sniff the new food, then lick it and then take the tiniest little bite - that counts as trying it! DS1 is very against new foods especially vegetables and this will normally work for us.  Its been a long slow process but he is slowly improving, now we can even keep the things we don't like/want on the same plate without emptying them onto the table or floor! Reading that back - I'm probably in no position to offer advice!

Offline Lana

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 19:13:25 pm »
Tbh I didnt start the one bite rule until the boys were about 4.5.  However if he licked it then I would let it go.  It did touch his mouth ;)

For us you had to try one bite and if you didnt then you would get that same item back at snack time.  I only had to follow through once with each boy and they learned the one bite rule was not negotiable.  I also make sure there are things on the plate that they do like as well


Offline ~Sara~

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 19:24:02 pm »
Having a very picky eater who is stubborn to boot, I've found the best approach to be "This is what we have" and then just go on with dinner.  I do try to make things that he'll like as part of the dinner, but DH and I can't eat exactly what A's currently liking allllll the time (I have my grilled cheese limit!).

We have the "Try..." rule, too.  But it's really more of a request when you think about it.  You can't force them to eat something, but you can have consequences like Mommy isn't making something else; no dessert; you can get down from the table if you're done; or if you're hungry later on, then you can have the rest of your dinner.

Like Shiv, we talk a lot about how it's good to try new things.  Sometimes, we don't like the food, but sometimes we LOOOOOOOOVE it!  Does it lead to A trying most of the new foods we give him?  Nope!  But, we choose to take the pressure off ourselves and just say, "Well, such-and-such is on your plate in case you'd like to try it."  Beyond that, DH will try to negotiate with him, but that can backfire big time if A gets fixated on the "prize" food.  Eh, we're still learning how to navigate these waters, too.  Heck, I was thrilled last night when the goober finally tried mashed potatoes and a bite of green bean. ::)

Oh, and don't worry about Finn asking for chocolate and candy all the time.  A does that, too, even though the child hardly gets any ::)  It's not a reflection on you; it's just they have good memories and KNOW that stuff is yummy to them.  They keep asking for it because, well, they're 3yos, and that's what 3yos do ;)

Just keep doing what you're doing!  Staying patient, calm, and talking can help, but also don't get too frustrated and feel like you have to do the whole song and dance routine to get him to try something, either.  You're doing the best you can, but he has his free will ;) 

ETA: I think it's important to recognize when they do try something new--at least, in the beginning.  Especially, if it's something they tried and DIDN'T like.  Let him know that, "You know, buddy, you tried that and it wasn't very tasty.  But now you know."  The pleasing taste of foods they do like, I think, reinforces the trying rule in and of themselves.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 19:28:29 pm by ~Sara~ »
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Offline Tweakster

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 19:33:36 pm »
Oh thank goodness Sara lol  Of course they have a memory.  Their bodies do too.  Duh!  I don't know why I wouldn't expect otherwise.  How do I think I got hooked on the crap lol?  Yesterday he literally cried because I put his Easter chocolate in the cupboard.  He then wanted it on the table.  Then when it was on the table he wanted the bag opened.  Finally I said, you know what, this isn't working for me so I put it away totally again and he cried and cried.  Tom is already irritated by the 'every occasion needs chocolate' thing ie Valentine's, Easter, summer, Halloween, Christmas etc etc.  He's totally against it altogether.  

Finn does have free will which is why I am just wondering how you actually enforce the rule.  It's not a real rule if you can't enforce it lol  Like what if I say you have to smell it and it has to touch your tongue and he won't even go that far?  I'm just thinking maybe Lana is right and he's too young.  

We do a lot of talking in our house, A lo-hot of talking lol  He chooses whether to listen or not.

Rach, he's totally the same.  Offending food cannot be on his plate.  He cries and cries.  Hates it.  Or he'll try to keep putting it on the table.
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Offline ~Sara~

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 19:58:28 pm »
Finn does have free will which is why I am just wondering how you actually enforce the rule.  It's not a real rule if you can't enforce it lol  Like what if I say you have to smell it and it has to touch your tongue and he won't even go that far?  I'm just thinking maybe Lana is right and he's too young.
ITA, which is why I view it more like a request...one that you have to repeat ad naseaum until one time, they decide that you might know what you're talking about and acquiesce to you.  The fact that you're not going to be a short order cook for whatever he wants in lieu of the new food is the enforcing.  Like Lana said, when you have some other things he'll eat as part of the meal, things go a bit more smoothly.

What if you had a separate plate for him for his "To Try" foods.  That way, they're still in his sight if he decides to go at 'em, but they're not contaminating his other foods. ;)  This also might appeal more to his strong sense of autonomy in that he can then call the shots as the whether or not he eats it.  You're just giving him the chance.

And yes, I hate all the candy.  I don't mind him having some every now and then.  But, I prefer to only give him a couple small pieces at a time.  So, really, a fun sized bag of M&Ms could last for at least a week!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 19:59:59 pm by ~Sara~ »
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Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 03:38:21 am »
We have a try rule: he has to try everything on his plate BUT if he doesn't like it he is allowed to spit it out. I have huge food/texture issues and the thought of swallowing something I don't like is too much for me; I would never force it on Dylan. Licking the food counts as trying it. If he chooses not to try everything that's fine, but there will be no treats before bedtime, only his milk and an offer to try supper again. I would say it works about 70% of the time (if you include licking! lol) and when it doesn't work I don't make a big deal of it, just remind him that choosing not to try XYZ means that there will be no treat with his bedtime snack. Sometimes he'll quickly lick the offending item before I take his plate away ;)

(and our bedtime treat isn't necessarily a sugar-treat, though it is sometimes. Applesauce, fruit, raisins, homemade muffins or loaves, etc., but something that he enjoys so that it is an incentive)
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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 06:05:43 am »
We don't have the 'have to try rule' But we do have the "you have to have eaten 4 things on the plate before you get more of anything on the plate. So every meal WILL have 5 things on it... most days 4 I know will get eaten but every so often, it will only be 3 & so they have to try one to get more of a prefered food.

So as an example when they were younger I might have made a chicken casserole for DH & myself, DS1 was still a "single food" eater, so he'd have a small peice of chicken (I'd cook in batches & re-heat) rice, green bean & the casserole & Pumpkin (back then the Pumpkin & casserole wouldn't be eaten... so he had to choose to try a mouthful to get more of the chicken he wanted.  The first time he ate just a mouthful, now he asks for seconds... I do count the casserole as his 5 foods because it has more than 5 parts to it when served with rice KWIM.

I've been known to add peices of fruit or rice crackers to make sure I have the 5 things.

As an example for Dinner tonight will be sausages & fried onions (cos you can't have steak or sausages without them - even though I won't even eat the sausages LOL)  mash pototo, cauliflower, pumpkin & green beans & mushrooms, DS1 will eat everything  (except Mushrooms), but DS2 will eat the sausages, beans, cauliflower & then choose between the potato, cauliflower & pumpkin... when he has a bite of one (& then say "I still don't like it) I will let him have some bread so he can have his sausage on it... he knows the drill, complains he still won't like it, but I say... if you don't want more, don't & some days he won't eat more, others he will have the bite so he can have more of his prefered food.

I personally can't do the "try everything on your plate" because I do cook foods I don't overly like (or don't like me), my DH & boys like sausages & lamb lots & I don't,  I also don't eat food with wheat, so if I'm not going to eat the lamb & they have never seen me even try it (because I won't) then how can I enforce it for them... thus the must eat 4 things to get seconds of a "prefered" food. (DH & I usually have about 6-8 different foods because I never serve less than 5 veg with meat if I do a "meat & veg meal" ) - there are also foods DH won't eat/try - like Mushrooms & I'm not going to force him to eat them.
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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 12:43:02 pm »
Following along... As you know we have massive problems (with DS, DD will try almost anything) on this front.
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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 12:54:22 pm »
Our rule when our kids were little (say 4 and under?) is that they had to try it but they could spit it out in the trash if they did not like it. Sounds gross, but it was an effective way to go about it because there was no 'committment' on their part. Kwim? And they found that some things they didn't think they'd like, that they did!

From about 5yrs & up, though, we require(d) them to have a small serving of everything WITH swallowing.  ;)

Only thing we have never made them have-even a taste-is spicy/strong tasting food. So, they don't eat chili, etc. I *could* make it less spicy for them, I guess, but I'm not too worried about them liking it tbh. They will when they're older most likely.   :)

As far as how to enforce it? Like anything else, if mama or daddy says to do something, they need(ed) to do it! ;) If not, timeout or loss of privileges was/is in order.

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 13:03:49 pm »
We don't have the 'have to try rule' But we do have the "you have to have eaten 4 things on the plate before you get more of anything on the plate.

Our "rule" is sort of like this...if they want more of one thing (for some reason rice is their favourite food!) they have to taste everything else on their plate.  For Masyn I ask that she actually eat a few bites, with Spencer (sensory issues!) we use the old if/then..."if you taste a piece of ham, then you can have more rice."  It inspired quite a few screaming tantrums in which she had to leave the room to calm down and then we came back and she ate what I asked her to try and declared "I like it"  ::).  Now that I know she understands the whole if/then thing, I use it alot to get her to taste, and she is allowed to spit it out if it really bothers her.  I have huge food issues with taste/smell/texture too.
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Offline Katet

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 21:27:23 pm »
You should have seen DS2 eating the Mash potato last night, he'd eat a bit the size fo half a pea & have a drink of water... etc until he ate a teaspoon full. Easter is an amazing thing for that.

The trouble is when you have a really strong willed child. DS2 went for about 2 years only eating dinner about twice a week & when he did it was generally 2 mouthfuls. He actually ate better the rest of the day than his brother ie have a huge Breakfast & lunch, but not Dinner. So given he ate 90% of his food before 1pm I just accepted it & as a person who grew up with "eat everything on your plate" I'm not really good on knowing when I'm full/hungry & do tend to eat "because you do" at meal times & I don't want that for my boys, so I will genuinely do a "if you don't want to eat it, that is it until breakfast" & Ds2 would (still will if there aren't lots of easter eggs) pretty much go "dinner isnt' to my liking, so I won't eat until Breakfast"

I also can't force my children to try things that I struggled with as a child, because I know they are textural, like ham & fresh tomatoes... I have big memories of gaging on them & getting to the point when forced to eat them I put thim in my pocket & the flushed them down the toilet after dinner... not a place I want my children to go.

FWIW a toddler/preschooler has many more & more sensitive tastebuds than an adult & so food flavours are more noticable. They also tend to be drawn to "seasonal" far more than adults & I've noticed that my boys will eat Bananas & Apples by the tonne in season, but out of season, not really, so while they might have eaten something 2 months ago & won't now it is worth looking at the seasonal variations.  Also important to note that a generation ago a "list" of 50 foods a preschooler ate was "extensive" these days with the varied international diets that a family eats 100 foods would be considered "limited"... if your child happily eats 6 different vegetables & frits & will eat them day in day out then it might seem limited in an adult diet but is actually "social conditioning" rather than anything else, so (from my perspective) I only push a new food/try about 1/week & we succeeded with a new one in the diet about 1/month (now DS1 is more often, but DS2 is still about that)
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Offline We Three

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 21:55:53 pm »
 DD is awesome about trying stuff....she rarely, rarely says no...and I honestly don't know how I'd handle it if she said to to everything as often as some kids do.   :-\  I would really struggle with it, because I feel strongly that I would never force when it comes to food.  There is no way I'm going to try everything, so I can't very well make my child do it, kwim?  I have never eaten an olive, they disgust me, and I will never try them. And if someone made me try them, I'd feel really upset.
 That said, I am totally at a loss as to what to suggest for Wendy....esp when F ends up liking so many of the things he refuses!!!  Or (like some kids) a lo has a diet limited to just 2 or 3 things.  I do like the when/then phrasing....and I use it for alot of things aside from food. 

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 22:27:26 pm »
We have the rule that DS should eat 'some' of his dinner or there will be nothing else all evening. I can usually gauge how much he will eat by how his day has gone. Sometimes he will say he doesn't want it but when I ask him to have some more (because I know he hasn't eaten much) he will wolf the whole lot down and even ask for more! Sometimes he needs a little encouragement, other times he just isn't hungry and I'm ok with that too. I try not to make punishment 'if you don't eat dinner then you won't get a treat' but more of 'if you don't try some dinner, you must not be hungry so we won't have any more food before bed' and this works well with DS! He has never gone to bed hungry.

There are foods he will just not eat, he HATES peas but I'm ok with that because there are foods I don't like either. I don't serve him these foods but if I'm making them for myself I will offer him the chance to try. He always says no but that's ok with me, I would still say no if someone offered me lamb.

I would like some advice on how ppl introduce new foods, mainly veg because DS eats lots of fruit but not enough veg so I'll follow along and see. X
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Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 23:25:09 pm »
Oh, and I guess I should add that with our if/then project, it was also suggested to us that Spencer get involved in shopping/putting away groceries/cooking so that she was physically touching foods that she hadn't tried. Also just repitition with putting the same food on her plate again and again until she tried it (took a year for roast pork!). 

DH and MIL once force fed Spencer as she was supposed to take some medicine with food. She had table aversion for quite awhile (they had strapped her in her booster chair first)
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Offline Katet

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 00:41:08 am »
I would like some advice on how ppl introduce new foods, mainly veg because DS eats lots of fruit but not enough veg so I'll follow along and see. X

As DH & I eat at least 5 different Vegs a meal I just put the veg on their plates, they know they don't have to eat it (outside their 4 foods) but they also can't comment that "I don't like it/I don't want it"... with DS1 I seriously have found it takes about 200-500 exposures for him to actually eat it, & with DS2 he would often try on something new, but rarely accept a food. Both boys are BIG meat eaters & do eat a selection of veg, but it is the same ones day after day for them, so while DH & I will have variety, DS1 has potato, green beans, cauliflower, pumpkin, corn & lettuce in rotation & will eat Brussel sprouts & beetroot when I have those (beetroot when grown in the garden/brussel sprouts in season) & I *think* cabbage is going to be a decent serve this week... I found a new way to cook it & he ate some. DS2 is still corn, green beans, lettuce, potatoes (only as roast or chips) & red pepper.  But I can always manage to get 4 foods on the plate with one "new"... BTW DS1 being 8 is expected to eat 5 foods now.
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Offline Tweakster

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2012, 00:47:33 am »
Quote (selected)
What if you had a separate plate for him for his "To Try" foods.  That way, they're still in his sight if he decides to go at 'em, but they're not contaminating his other foods.
Not a bad idea  :)  Might talk to Tom about that.

Quote (selected)
BUT if he doesn't like it he is allowed to spit it out. I have huge food/texture issues and the thought of swallowing something I don't like is too much for me; I would never force it on Dylan.
I should clarify that I told him he could spit it out but he had to at least get it into his mouth.  I'll think about the licking option.  Trouble is that by licking your not getting the full range of buds involved as some taste buds are more sensitive than others, from my understanding.

Quote (selected)
We don't have the 'have to try rule' But we do have the "you have to have eaten 4 things on the plate before you get more of anything on the plate. So every meal WILL have 5 things on it... most days 4 I know will get eaten but every so often, it will only be 3 & so they have to try one to get more of a prefered food.
This is the trouble, I don't make meals that complex.  Most contain 3 foods at most, most often just 2 - meat and a veg.  DH and I are also 'picky' and have a repertoire that we'll eat from for the most part.  I have been making stuff he (and DH) likes for the most part, but the problem is, Finn's slowly dwindling his list of acceptable foods by proclaiming he doesn't like something he used to like.  So meals are becoming toast every night.  It's discouraging.

Heidi we do the if/then but he's quite happy to not have any more food.  He's not eating much.  He'll just say 'ok I get down now'.  Family meals are tough.

Kate I agree with your second post and absolutely don't want my kid to be forced (I agree Anne!) but at the same time, the things I was forced to eat (like pumpkin pie, which I still can't stand the sight of to this day! or onions - they have to be miniscule for me to eat them in something or creamed corn - shudders) are not things that I would force on Finn.  But potatoes and very basic things that really have a very mild taste and texture, if any, he just eyes it and says 'no'.  So he's not going off taste or texture at all.  He's going off a look of a food.  And I know I did that as a kid too.  And now I can see how frustrating it is hehe  So the sweet potato was after about a million times of serving about 10 different ways, finally found a way DH likes and F just refused to try it every single time.  I just felt like he had to at least give it a shot on Easter.  It was the tiniest amount in the world as well.  Luckily he liked it.  But to be honest I would have been just as happy if he put it in his mouth but spit it out again.  We always thank him for trying and we aren't mean or bully about it.  I was pretty matter of fact on Sunday - just like Vikki does I guess.

Luckily, Finn has been a good eater for the past 2 years.  Ever since solids we have had very few issues...and I do know that other kids are way worse and in most circles, he wouldn't even be called picky.  But as I say, he's limiting it a lot now.  'I don't like eggs/meat/chicken/carrots/peppers/berries' when these are things he would eat regularly for 2 years.  I think what he often means is 'that's not what I want to eat' or 'I'm not really that hungry' but I'm struggling with sending my kid to bed without a meal or he only wants waffles, pancakes or toast.  Breakfast we do at home and is typically yogurt and/or toast or cereal and/or fruit.  And he gets a good lunch at school.  They say he's a good eater, but I worry maybe he's not getting enough.  And on weekends, he's just been so picky about all food...meanwhile at school they are serving chickpea salad, quinoa, and all sorts of stuff I would never have touched as a kid and he's mowing down.  So there's a bit of a paradox there.  At school they enforce a try rule...and he's fine with it there.  But at home he balks.

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Offline Katet

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 00:57:30 am »
This is the trouble, I don't make meals that complex.  Most contain 3 foods at most, most often just 2 - meat and a veg. 

Not meaning to offend here, but if he sees you only eating 2-3 foods then I think he is justifiable in thinking he only has to eat one of the foods on his plate. It was a long time ago but I read (when I started the 5 foods on a plate) children naturally expect not to need to eat as much variety as their parents do & the more variety they are offered each time the more likely they are to try new things, esp if they see their parents doing it.

When the boys were younger it would have been a piece of meat, a lettuce leaf or green bean (because there is no work in getting them on the plate - ie not cooked) some grapes/apple, grated cheese & potato/rice/pasta. It all grew from there. As an example when I do spagetti Bolognase, they don't have to have extras, because it is pasta, meat, tomato, onion & fresh herbs... so it counts as 5. 
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Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2012, 02:23:08 am »
Not meaning to offend here, but if he sees you only eating 2-3 foods then I think he is justifiable in thinking he only has to eat one of the foods on his plate.

I think there is alot of truth to this...DH started really working at eating healthy to lose weight last summer and even though I eat healthy, the impact of the kids seeing both of us eat a huge variety of foods was crazy...Spencer now loves carrot sticks, Masyn will eat a salad.  I mae things that are not my favourite (or DH's) and we make a show of trying something new in front of the kids (I have to make sure DH knows beforehand that comments about food being gross are unacceptable!)

With the if/then...plenty of nights she would eat her one helping of rice and nothing else. I try to make sure there is at least one thing they will go for (even if it is just toast) but give a smaller than normal portion so that when they ask for more I have a place to bargain from.  This didn't really work until recently with Spencer, before that she basically lived on cheerios, spaghetti, rice & applesauce (oh, and chicken nuggets & fries!).
Heidi




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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2012, 02:29:09 am »
Hmmm - sorry girls do you mean 2-3 foods overall or 2-3 foods for one meal?  What kind of meals have 5 or more foods in one sitting??  Frankly it's just too much food for DH and me, I would certainly expect it to overwhelm Finn too.  He seems overwhelmed by what we already serve. It's just not how DH nor I grew up, I wouldn't even know how to make a meal with 5 different items...and then different ones all the time. 

I'm not a cook, I don't like cooking, but I do it for my kid.  But I can only do what I can do.  Working 9-5 + commuting doesn't leave time for elaborate meals every night, not even on weekends, given all the other stuff we have to fit in.  I kind of feel pretty darn proud if I make a slow cooker meal with a veg on the side :)  That's a banner day around here lol
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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2012, 02:41:42 am »
Oh, I'm not a cook either!!  But, our meal is usually potato/rice/pasta, meat, cooked veg, raw veg (one or two kinds), fruit, maybe cheese.  I adapt it to each person...Spencer loves applesauce, it makes Masyn want to barf so she gets apple slices.  Salad could make up 3 or 4 types of food in one shot.  I don't rotate the kinds alot, I buy what is in season or on sale and run with it.  Mini carrot sticks 5 days in a row? sure!!  (with dip of course...does Finn like veggies with dip?)

I used to love as a kid to make up a plate with small portions of things (cheese, fruit, veg, crackers, slice of meat) and organize it all nice and then eat, seems my kids inherited this gene. 
Heidi




Offline Katet

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2012, 03:38:19 am »
OK here is the menu for the week. Each of the veg serve is like 1/4 to 1/2 cup cooked ie 1- 2 florets of cauliflower

Monday.  finely sliced beef -cooked with onion, lettuce, tomato, grated carrot, grated cheese in the tortilla. (boys ate -tortilla, beef, lettuce & cheese - Ds1 onion as well) (DS1 5 things, DS2 4)
Tuesday. Sausages & Mash, with onions, cauliflower, sweet potato & green beans (raw), DS1 ate all except sweet potato, Ds2 didn't eat the cauliflower & onions. (DS1 5 things, DS2 4 or 6 & 5 if you count gravy, which I did early on)
Wednesday - Chicken skewers (with satay sauce) , rice, brocolli DH & me/beans boys, sweet corn & carrots (boys won't eat the carrots or brocolli, thus the green beans (raw) for them. (DS1 5 things (as he will eat the satay sauce), DS2 4)
Thursday - Spaghetti Bolognaise (I cook in 1kg lots of meat, which gives us 5 meals & freeze) & pasta, with salad, boys will eat lettuce  , DH & I will have carrot, peppers & lettuce ... cheese on the bolognaise & pasta too..
Friday (out)
Saturday - BBQ Chicken - shop bought, Fries (shop bought) salad - lettuce, green beans, capsicum, tomato & celery...
DS1 will eat lettuce beans & celery, Ds2 lettuce & beans + chicken & fries.
Sunday - platter night, I will do basically a whole heap of oven foods, pastizzi, frozen yum cha mix, chicken nuggets, cauliflower chips ( cauliflower covered in olive oil, seasoned & baked)  jacket potatoes, sweet potato fries,  green beans (raw). - they will normally eat about 8 different things from the platter night.

When they were younger it may well have been chicken, rice, apple, cheese & beans... beans & lettuce were the staples early on as they were no fuss to put on the plate.

I'm no great cook, but have worked out the sizes to cook so they can all be cooked in together & so really just cut up & put in the microwave & it is done... not really any more effort to do 3-4 veg than it is one... esp as I cut up Broccoli & cauliflower when I buy & then store in a tupperwear container, in florets.

Maybe it is more a UK/Aussie thing but I grew up with meat, potato & 2 veg (my Dad is a Brit & did weekend cooking & he did 3-5 veg) & the 3 friends I "bulk buy" veg with all have at least 3-4 different veg in their meals. - I find it is the only way to attempt to get close to the 5 & 2 (veg & fruit) that they push so much here.
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Offline We Three

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2012, 04:03:38 am »
I hear you Wendy....we are meat/starch/veggie for dinner most nights. On pasta nights, I always make a salad, which (thank you, God) my dd loves.  When I think of 5 items for dinner I think "must be a Holiday!"  LOL

 Wendy...what do you offer for snacks? Is he more willing in a more casual setting like snack time? Carrots with dip, granola, apple with peanut butter to dip in....will he do stuff like that? Do dips help at all? For example, my dd isn't crazy about celery, but if she has PB to dip it in, she loves it.

Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2012, 05:24:57 am »
We so something along the vein of Katet's approach.  We put small helpings of everything on their plate and then on order to get seconds of a preferred food they must try the not-preferred food.  Sometimes this is even items within one dish.

For example, we make stir fry and DS picks out all the chicken and then wants more--we insist that he have one of each type of veg before getting more chicken. 

We do tend have an "except the one you hate" rule--especially for the three year old.  We'll have soup and she'll pick out all of her favored item and then want more (or want another piece of bread/roll that was served on the side) and we'll tell her she has to eat one of each veg and then she erupts into tears saying, "but I hate potatoes!" So we say, okay, one of everything but the potatoes. 

So, it's not a hard and fast rule, but more of a principle that we apply as best suits the nature of the meal.  We try to talk about the underlying principle of being polite and honoring the person who took the time and effort to make the food and also being thankful that God has provided us with plenty of food even if this item is not our favorite. 

The hard and fast rule we do have is that dinner is what is served and there is no alternative and no snack available afterward.  Eat dinner or wait for breakfast. 

Offline Me.and.my.two.boys

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2012, 07:01:36 am »
[quote author=Peek-a-boo link=topic=228874.msg2477505#msg2477505 date=1334121897
The hard and fast rule we do have is that dinner is what is served and there is no alternative and no snack available afterward.  Eat dinner or wait for breakfast. 
[/quote]

Completely agree, we do this too.
Kelly, mum of two amazing boys 2008 and 2012

Offline Mashi

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2012, 08:43:22 am »
I'm so glad to see someone say this:

There is no way I'm going to try everything, so I can't very well make my child do it, kwim?  I have never eaten an olive, they disgust me, and I will never try them. And if someone made me try them, I'd feel really upset.

Olives are the most evil food on the face of the planet and everyone who eats them should be sent to live on an island and stay away from the sane people left on the earth who realise that olives were not meant to be consumed.  :P :P   On a more serious note, it is the way I aim to think with DS and trying foods.  I'm not going to taste an olive. I don't care about the fact that I have not tried one in over 15 years and that just *maybe* I might like them now....I'm just not going to. And so I try to keep that in mind with DS.  I lived in Asia for 5 years and I hate spicy food. There were many many days I went hungry and I lost a LOT of weight while living there just because I would not eat most of the foods, nor would I even try them.   

Quote (selected)
Hmmm - sorry girls do you mean 2-3 foods overall or 2-3 foods for one meal?  What kind of meals have 5 or more foods in one sitting??  Frankly it's just too much food for DH and me, I would certainly expect it to overwhelm Finn too.  He seems overwhelmed by what we already serve. It's just not how DH nor I grew up, I wouldn't even know how to make a meal with 5 different items...and then different ones all the time. 

I think that what you count as a "food" is maybe not the same as what Kate or others mean.  It is the opposite for me in that I can't imagine a meal with only 2 foods on the table but I suspect we are just thinking of it different. We easily have 6-10 "foods" at every meal, every night. But not all of them are cooked or prepared by me. So for us for instance, 6-10 foods in a meal means that I cooked some chicken and rice, and heated some peas. A pot of cottage cheese on the table, bread and butter, and cold carrot sticks. That is 6 different foods to me.  If I made a salad as well then that adds 3-5 things (ie/ lettuce, cucumber, avocado, tomato, spring onions).   It is not too much food because the cottage cheese, carrots, salad all go back in the fridge at the end of the meal to come out again the next night, the peas really only have to be a tablespoon each, and the bread is sliced as or if you want it. You don't need huge portions of each food and not all of us will eat EVERY one of the foods - my DH will might the cottage cheese and bread but not carrots and me the opposite.

And it does not need to take a lot of time: last night we had pork wraps (pork cooked in crock pot all day, it took me 5 minutes to shred it with a fork for dinner while the wraps warmed in the oven).  On a large plate I put shredded cheese, chopped tomatoes, lettuce, sliced avocado and sour cream and we make our own at the table. It takes me 3 minutes to make cous-cous (cous cous and frozen peas in a bowl, boil kettle and pour water on, leave sit for 2 minutes, fluff it and add some chopped cucumber and tomatoes, done).  So for dinner I count that as 10 different foods that DS had the option to eat but I suppose some people might think of that as two foods (wraps and cous-cous). 

Quote (selected)
Trouble is that by licking your not getting the full range of buds involved as some taste buds are more sensitive than others, from my understanding.
You're probably right about this, but honestly I think that for a 3yo you are being a bit unreasonable.  :-\ If he does not want to try something then I think licking it has to count.  There are times when you need to pick your battle and explaining to a three year old what taste buds are and how he needs the full-taste-experience to decide if he likes it or not isn't going to get you any further.  Let him lick things for now and when he his older you can encourage a bit more.

Quote (selected)
Most contain 3 foods at most, most often just 2 - meat and a veg.  DH and I are also 'picky' and have a repertoire that we'll eat from for the most part.  I have been making stuff he (and DH) likes for the most part, but the problem is, Finn's slowly dwindling his list of acceptable foods by proclaiming he doesn't like something he used to like.  So meals are becoming toast every night.


If you and your DH are both picky and you want Finn to learn to be more open to new foods then I think you have to start making things that are new to all of you and possibly things that you and/or Tom don't like as well. And properly taste them, and properly eat them. Otherwise you are making different rules for the both of you than for him. And if you are only offering him two foods at a meal IMO it is not really encouraging him to open up his repertoire and try new foods when there are only two options presented, and then toast as the alternative.  Some nights you include toast on the table as one of the options but not just for him but for any of you - put it in the centre of the table and make it available to everyone not a special thing you made for him, allow him to choose the toast from the options available - but other nights there is no toast and he has to choose from something else that is on the table. 

If you are not able to cook then I would at least put a few other things in the centre of the table and they are available for everyone to choose from. One of the best pieces of advice that I had (from Ellyn Satter, an Aussie 'picky eaters' expert that Deb in Oz directed me to) is not to put anyone's food on plates. Put everything that is an option in the centre of the table and everyone chooses what they want to eat.  Allow Finn to choose the things that he is going to eat and do not comment on it, and also don't comment on your own choices as a way of encouraging (ie/ my DH used to do an exaggerated gush of "Oh WOW this is SOOOOOO good....wow! Yum!!" ::) ::)  as a manipulative way of getting DS to want to taste it, which only made DS avoid it more because he knew that is what was going on).  "True" compliments that are normal are fine ("mmm, the chicken's nice" iyswim) but leave it at that.  After a very short time we were surprised at what DS reached for and chose on his own.  He tried a lot of new things - licks and spits for many of them but trying is trying!  And also making sure that if he does not want/like/choose anything from the options then he does not get anything else. There needs to be at least something that he likes and can choose from but other than that, that's it.  If he knows he can choose toast every night then there is no incentive to eat anything else.


Offline Katet

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2012, 09:23:21 am »
  DH and I are also 'picky' and have a repertoire that we'll eat from for the most part.  I have been making stuff he (and DH) likes for the most part, but the problem is, Finn's slowly dwindling his list of acceptable foods by proclaiming he doesn't like something he used to like.  So meals are becoming toast every night. [/quote]

That actually is very normal, tastebuds are at their strongest around 2-4yo & so flavours do change & TBH if you are 'limited' eaters then it is reasonable to expect a 3yo to eat about 10-25% of what you eat.

I menu plan & every 2 weeks I try something new, mostly slow cooker meals, because we need them for days when we get home from sports practice at 6.45pm & normal dinner is 6/6.30pm, I need to have meals I can serve in 5mins. Some meals we decide "not again" & once we all ate toast for dinner, but it is good to have that discussion KWIM.
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Offline Katet

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2012, 08:01:39 am »
I thought of you Wendy today.

I was out with the boys & had Fish & Chips for lunch (shopping Mall food court)... Well DS1 had grilled fish, DS2 had calamari & I had sushi (the boys shared with each others)... 2 years ago neither would have eaten those foods.

Anyway at the next table there was a teenage girl (16?) with Grandparents, they had got a cuppa & Raisin Toast, she came back with a Turkish Pide (Cheese & Spinach I think) & I over heard most of the conversation & the teen offered some to the Grandparents to try... the Grandmother does a "what is it like?" & then timidly trys some, really only ate one piece. The Granfather did the whole "OMG you expect me to eat that poison" look & said "no thanks, I don't like that new fangled foreign food"... reminded me of my Parents & FIL, don't eat out of their comfort zone.

From a BTDT it has been a long road, but honestly there is no way one could call my 8yo a "picky" eater anymore & yet at 3yo, he basically ate no more than 20 different (single) foods & very few mixed foods, these days he eats a huge mix from Indian foods to Italian & even ate Kangaroo the other day & asked when we can go somewhere so he can try Crocodile.
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Offline babybarr

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2012, 09:12:19 am »
Honestly if I put 5-10 foods on our plates there'd be an awful lot of waste!!! 

Wendy I think it depends on the meal.  Sometimes we'd just have meat, veg, potatoes - so perhaps 4 foods + gravy??  Other days it's be fresh filled pasta and sauce & salad (mixed lettuce - I'm not a big salad fan, I do veg for O) so I'd class that as 3 foods...  There's no way I'd have time to prepare food for a slow cooker plus slice salad, veg, cook pasta, cous cous whatever.  With O he eats what we eat.  If we have cabbage - which he doesn't like - he has some on his plate, TBH as a child I never liked cabbage but I do now.  There's lots of things I wouldn't eat as a child and we had quite a limited diet too but now I eat much more esp. fruit and veg.  I'll often now have a vege option at a restaurant.

We also never offer dessert if he hasn't eaten "enough".

((((hugs))) TBH I'd try not to stress it too much.  Offer what you have and encourage I'm sure as he gets older he'll eat more variety.
LAURA xx




Offline Jimbob

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 09:31:53 am »
I quite like the idea off having at least 5 foods on the plate. We do already have this with quite a few meals but I am going to try and do this with all meals. I have also found that my ds eats more variety if we do a mini buffet. I think its because he gets to choose his food ad how much he wants of each food. We make sure it is all good healthy nutritious food so it does not matter how much of each food he has really especially as he did suffer with a severe food aversion so any progress is good. To be honest he is doing really well now and has a good varied diet now.

Kelly



James has atopic eczema, multiple food allergies, asthma and late talker

Offline ~Sara~

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2012, 15:06:41 pm »
Just checking in with you, Wendy...how are things in Finn-land? ;)
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Offline Tweakster

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2012, 15:11:09 pm »
He's eating less and less and less these days.   Even offering him meals with more stuff on the plate has not helped.  He just says 'I don't like that' to everything. *sigh*  Going to start a thread on protein :(
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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2012, 15:13:00 pm »
These silly children!

Well, if you want to keep this thread going and get support, just let me know...I'm happy to hold your hand and throw ideas around with you.
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Offline Mom to M&M

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2012, 16:26:01 pm »
Same here Wendy! We can keep this one going or start a new one and I have lots of ideas for protein too!
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Katet

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 22:09:23 pm »
Wendy FWIW (& I often say this F often reminds me of Ds1) DS1 ate maybe 20 things (that were healthy) at 3yo... now at close to 9yo, he eats the evening meal every night & eats cabbage, brussel sprouts etc... He honestly eats almost everything on offer - except for sandwich fillings, that is the problem. But my advice would be it may get worse before it gets better, but for us a realistic goal has been 1 new food/month (which in the early years often meant losing one a month too)... oh & this is the boy who now chooses grilled fish (from the fish & chipie) over McDonalds ;)
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Offline Lemonthyme

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2012, 12:20:39 pm »
Interesting topic.  My son is (only just) 2 years old but is getting increasingly picky.  I'm letting it slide at the moment and keeping offering things as I figure to stop is fatal but it's interesting the tactics you all use.  No doubt I will be using them too but it's reassuring in a way to realise it's too early now.

My parents used to say to me, "Have one spoonful, it's an adult taste" so that it let us off in a way if we didn't want it because we were just kids but also we wanted to be sophisticated so we wanted to like adult tastes.  Sneaky.
Here's my blog which is focussed on simple food for babies, toddlers and families http://mamacook.blogspot.com/

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2012, 19:07:24 pm »
Ok, my son is only just two.  He was being fussy on Monday with some potato wedges (which I knew he would like if he tried them) so I said "do you want to just try a bit?" he said "no".

I left the plate on the table and after his fruit pudding he said "Try them" and he then tried a bit of potato, then ate them all.

No idea if this would work every time; probably not but perhaps it's not about enforcing the rule just mentioning it?
Here's my blog which is focussed on simple food for babies, toddlers and families http://mamacook.blogspot.com/

Offline aylien

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2012, 00:11:41 am »
Wendy, I think you've gotten a ton of really good advice here.  I also don't think Finn's behavior is abnormal - just closer to one end of the picky spectrum.

FWIW, my DD is like this and I am in the same situation as you except in our case, DH doesn't eat dinner with us (he'll sit with us but refuses to eat anything I cook and will not eat vegetables... don't get me started please...) so I am the only parent to set an example of healthy eating.  At present (age 2.9) she will eat one vegetable (broccoli, but only with cheese), no meat (unless in a bolognese sauce), about 3 different fruits, and no dairy other than cheese.  If it were up to her, she'd subsist on pasta and bread.  I just hope it gets better but I'm not sure there's much I can do other than control *when* and *what* is served, set a good example, and keep encouraging and offering over and over and over. 

The one thing I really want to say though is that, I think when it comes to food and trying new things, truly 'enforcing' the rule will backfire.  I have no scientific basis for saying this, but it is a very strong intuition I have, having struggled with eating disorders most of my life.  I think that with food it is extremely important to avoid getting into any power struggles and to keep emotions separate (don't use food as incentives or rewards or means of comfort, for example), and truly forcing him to try something could cause him to develop negative associations with the food or the act of trying something new.  I think as long as he sees you eating a variety of healthy foods, and you're offering these foods to him in a positive environment, and you're giving him the chance to be hungry at mealtimes (no snacking, or at least limit snacking) eventually he will branch out. 

Just my two cents.  And, admittedly, my DD is a terrible eater so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

I know it is so incredibly frustrating.  Good luck. 

Offline Lemonthyme

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2012, 20:30:07 pm »
Interesting you should say that.  As I said, my son's still quite little and would only eat broccoli recently if it was hidden.  Last time I offered it, he suddenly, out of the blue ate all of the broccoli, almost choking on some of it in his enthusiasm!  

Anyway, it might not work with older kids but IMO if you stop offering things, you are enforcing the fussiness.  At least if the option is there (even if it's just in a communal bowl they can help themselves from) then there is at least a small chance they might have a bit?

My parents (being parents in the 70's) had no time for fussiness. Their rule was "you will be allowed one thing that you won't eat" and that meant we were allowed to leave that one thing.  It didn't mean we weren't offered it (my thing was leaks and my mum used to cook whole leeks wrapped in ham with cheese sauce, if I didn't eat it, I went hungry.)  It's funny how things change.  I'm not saying they were right at all but there is probably a halfway house from their approach to one that's common now.
Here's my blog which is focussed on simple food for babies, toddlers and families http://mamacook.blogspot.com/

Offline aylien

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2012, 22:04:26 pm »
I just want to clarify, I am by no means saying you shouldn't offer, I think you have to offer, offer, offer, and really encourage trying.  Especially since, at least in Finn's case, it sounds like he would like a lot of things if he would only try (my DD tends to reject most things, even after trying - including cake and pudding). I'm just saying, truly *enforcing* when the child is vehemently objecting might backfire by creating a negative association with the food you want him to try.  I think it's important to keep a positive attitude towards food.   However, even I refuse to allow desert (when we have it, which is rare) if she hasn't at least tried everything.  
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 22:06:41 pm by aylien »

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Re: For those who enforce a 'try' rule, how do you enforce it?
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2012, 17:58:52 pm »
I think it's important to keep a positive attitude towards food.   However, even I refuse to allow desert (when we have it, which is rare) if she hasn't at least tried everything.
Just saw this - thanks :)  Yes that is what we are going for.  We haven't really 'enforced' anything because he simply will not try it.  He will lock his mouth and we practically have to break it open and shove it in...which is so not what I want to do.  He's not a kid who will just say 'oh ok mommy said I have to therefore I will do it'  Nope.  He fights us all the way with everything.  We say 2 mins he says 5.  We say 1 more slide, he says 2.  We say get your shoes on, he says 'not yet'.  He's taking control where he can, I get that.

My friend's kid is turning 4 next weekend and literally he eats nothing.  I mean almost nothing.  He came over for a playdate and had some chips, popcorn and refused to eat his hot dog.  And I'm talking just a wiener cooked on the BBQ - no bun or condiments.  He wouldn't even eat it that way.  I bought the hot dogs for him because it's one thing he normally eats lol  Because they weren't at home they didn't enforce the 'dessert' rule and so he was able to have his ice cream cone.  He had two licks and then didn't want it.  Ice cream!  Can you imagine?  Finn had ice cream in one hand grabbing a cookie in the other LOL  So I know that there are really and truly picky kids and that Finn isn't even on the worst end of the spectrum and that his picky phase is likely just that, a phase, because he really seems to enjoy food.  It's not always food that is good for him but he can even find enjoyment in eggs, or some strawberries...so he is open to good eating.  Baby steps!
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