Suggested food and nap routines don't line up - help!

[jrmax]

As my DS2 (7 months) is able to increase his A time to 3 hours now, I'm noticing that the time for feeing and napping don't line up. He's not yet ready to drop the CN, so we end up having a later bed time since I can't extend his naps any longer to suit a good routine that keeps him from being OT, and I don't think a 5:30pm bedtime is appropriate either.

Here's a suggested routine, and the issue I'm confused about below that:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=68458.0

4 Milkfeeds during the day (6-8+ months).

7am - Milk
8am - Solids
11am - Milk
12pm - Solids
3pm - Milk
4/4.30pm - Solids
6.30pm - Milk
10.30pm - D/F if still doing one.

Based on above, my LO would wake at 7am, go down for 9 or 9:30am for first nap.
11:00am for milk is good, but then he can go 3 hours of A time after this, which brings us to 2pm for nap time.
The suggested 4 hour routine would mean a 3pm milk feed, however, that only allows for an hour nap. What if he wants to sleep as long as 2 hours and foregoes the CN?
Currently I'm either putting DS to bed at the 2 hr and 45 min mark, and letting him sleep till 3:15pm for an hour and a half, or putting him down for 2pm and waking him by 3:30 for a feed, which of course pushes everything back...

I could go with the 9-11+mo routine, but that pushes the milk feeds back by a half hour, which I don't think is appropriate for a 7 mo old...?

Does anyone have any suggestions? What do YOU do?

[lil_ginge]

I would LOVE to listen in here... feeling the same woe! x

[*Ali*]

I used to just bring the ers milk feed forward to before the second nap. I just made sure I changed his nappy after the feed to separate the E and S. I don't think it matters if the milk is 4hrs apart once they are on solids.

[Ima shel Alon]

Sorry, all those numbers just muddled up for me with my ADD 
I think I would, however, be able to look at *your* EASY and look if I can see how can things work for you.
I can tell you that what I did was to keep the bottles 4h between each other more or less and have solids sometime during the A time. the sample you are referring to is just that, a sample, and especially during this time before dropping the CN you kind of go by the day, IMO.

[jrmax]

Thanks for the feedback!

I also just checked the BW book, and this is Tracy's suggestion on pages 38/39:

7am: Wake and feed
7:30: Activity
9 or 9:30: Morning Nap
11:15: Breast or bottle (the snack)
11:30: Activity
1: Lunch (solids)
1:30: Activity
2 or 2:30: Afternoon nap
4: Breast or bottle (Snack)
4:15: Activity
5:30 or 6" Dinner (solids)
7: Activity, including bath and then the nighttime routine, which consists of a bottle or breast, book, and tuck in.

So I guess the idea is to alternate milk and solids, rather than offer solids an hour after a milk feed.
With the notion that 'food is for fun until one' doesn't seem to apply here - it's more about getting the solids established. Not sure which school I fall into. I'm still BFing and we are playing with BLW as well as spoon feeding...

But at least I can see how the routine works and fits it all in.

What do others think?

[creations]

Hi there.
I don't think that Tracy's suggestion is necessarily pushing the solids.

Regardless of times the feeds go something like:
WU milk - this is primary food
Breakfast - solids as secondary food whether purée or finger food, quantity is not prescribed
Mid morning feed - initially milk as the primary food, as the months progress this becomes milk and snack, then snack and water
Lunch - solids, secondary food, whether purée or finger food and the quantity is not prescribed
Mid afternoon feed - initially milk as the primary food, as the months progress this becomes milk and snack, then snack and water
Dinner - solids, secondary food, whether purée or finger food, quantity not prescribed
BT milk - primary food

It is up to you which solids meals you introduce and when, some people do not introduce the dinner solids at first and just go with breakfast and lunch. It is also up to you whether you feed purée or finger food, there is no strict rule to either.
The morning and afternoon milk feeds will be dropped as the months progress and replaced with a healthy snack.
The WU and BT milk feeds tend to be the last ones to be dropped, there's no hurry.

Times will vary as naps change.  For now you should keep the milk feeds close to the 4hrs but you don't need to be strict about it.  If you want your LO to have a longer nap and this takes him over the 4hrly feed don't worry, he will eat when he wakes up.  He is also getting a little extra food now in the form of solids so it isn't really a full 4hrs between feeds.
The idea of solids coming an hour after milk isn't that it must be exactly an hour, it is a guidance to encourage LO to take a full milk feed and then build a little appetite up to experiment with the solids being offered.

I hope this helps a little

[oliversmommy]

jrmax - hope you don't mind me barging in on your post, but I just wanted to thank creations - as a FTM who introduced solids to her LO a few weeks ago, this is HUGELY helpful to me, to see how things will progress as LO gets older.  I really appreciate you posting this creations!!! 

[creations]

Glad to help x

[lil_ginge]

jmax... thanks for posting - think this is gonna help a lot of ftm's working through the same stuff.

ima and creations - you legends. gonna bookmark this bad boy as i tread the same path as jmax!!! relieved to know where i am going now.

[jrmax]

Creations - you've saved the day again! Lol... I was trying so hard not to burden you with ANOTHER question, but you outsmarted me and have helped a great deal here as well.

Today is day two of a 2 nap day! DS2 just naturally did this yesterday, and I went with it. And today was great again! I have to admit, I do like less naps - it's easier to get out and about during A times! 

Thanks to everyone for their input. I tried the BF at 11am and 4pm, with solids in between, and my LO took the solids with much more interest - I guess since he had worked up a bit of an appetite!

I'll keep plugging away and adjusting as we go, but I think we might be on to something here. A far cry from 3 months ago - right Creations?! Amazing...

Sending out the love to everyone!

[creations]

you've saved the day again!

[blushes profusely]

FWIW my little man is 15 months now and we still have slightly odd meal times.  Along with changing nap times you can also expect changing poop times (which can throw off the nap times!) and a varying appetite at different times of the day.  For the last few months my DS needed the biggest morning 'snack' you've ever imagined, it was more like lunch but at 10.30/11am, then after he woke from a nap he had an enormous meal at around 2pm (more lunch? or should I call this dinner as it was really the main meal of the day?), followed by a snack around 3.30/4pm and 'dinner' (more of a snack and milk) at 5.15pm.  Only recently has the morning snack reduced to snack size and we now have a split lunch, small sandwich type one pre nap and massive dinner type one after nap...and the second one is moving later too, now around 3 or 3.30pm (more like afternoon snack time).  Then I get confused as to whether he needs a snack at 4 or straight though to another meal at 5.15pm.
So basically, don't fret too much, and along the BW lines follow your baby's cues but also keep tabs on things.  I wouldn't think it ideal to be constantly grazing the entire day (bad for teeth for one thing and doesn't allow appetite to fully build to take in a good meal for another) but following cues on snack and meal times and sizes, and fitting them around naps wherever you can, well I think that's about all you can do.

Sending out the love to everyone!

Liking this.  There's always space for a little more love

[*Ali*]

ITA With creations.

I just looked at the schedule you referred to in bwsayp on page 38 and noticed that Tracy says it is actually what she notices is typical based on the sample routines on this site it isn't what she is saying anyone *should* try to fit their LO into. I think a lot depends on how much solids your LO is eating because I know when my ds2 was 7mo he ate such a small amount at breakfast he couldn't make a long nap after a 3hr A time so we had to do a BF top up before the nap. But my ds1 ate a lot of cereal at breakfast from the getgo so he was OK to go 5hrs between his first two BFs.

[jrmax]

Thanks ladies - if I've learned nothing else from all your support these last few months, it's to 'not stress'. I have to keep reminding myself the 'routine police' aren't coming for me if I get it 'wrong'! LOL!

Things are getting back on track, and I've actually found Tracey's 'suggestion' - or rather, her notes from a 'typical routine' -to be working much better. And it helps DS2 to come a little hungrier to the table as well.

I will say though, regardless of how hungry is, veggies are much harder to get in this guy, than fruit. We started with pears as Tracey suggested, and he rarely takes any pureed veggies. He will try beans, cucumbers, some carrots, he'll lick a pepper - all in whole (steamed) form, so that's good I guess. But I always wonder if he's getting enough.

Also, I think his A times are stretching now too! He's been 'screaming' (and not a mantra cry) at naps now. However, when I walked out with him in my arms b/c DS1 needed me while I was trying to put DS2 down, he stopped crying and was happy! So I pushed the A time another 15-20 mins and he went off to sleep like a charm.

"Just when you think you've got it down, it all changes..." 

[*Ali*]

It's true it's hard to keep up isn't it?
Remember food before one is just for fun. A couple of spoonfuls of pureed carrot contains hardly any calories so isn't going to make much difference to his overall calorie intake. The main thing is that he is experiencing new tastes and textures and getting used to eating. Sounds like he prefers finger foods for at least some foodstuffs. Have you considered baby led weaning?
If you do want him to eat pureed veg have you tried mixing it with pureed fruit such as carrot and apple? Or even mixing it with some milk and baby rice, my ds1 used to like that. Or what about the sweeter veg to start with like butternut squash, pumpkin and swet potato?
He'll get there, there's no rush.

[creations]

My little man is a massive fruit lover too.  You could try finger food veg rather than puree, sometimes the different texture encourages exploration, asparagus, green beans, roasted wedges of sweet potato/turnip/butternut squash (also helpful as they are the sweeter veg), fried mushrooms go down a treat here.

OT but YaY! for you working out the A time push  Go mummy!!

posted same time as Ali - seems I've said exactly the same thing