night waking problem 8 weeks old

[becj86]

If he can only do 1hr A time before needing a sleep, he should only be doing 1hr or maybe a bit more (10 mins more at most) before bed, so I'd have fed him at 6:30, done the BT routine, etc. ready for him to be asleep at 7:30, so starting shush/pat in his crib at 7:25 or so. Does that make sense?

I think at this age, you can probably just jump to 7pm being bedtime (eliminate one EAS cycle or cut the nap short to get an extra feed in), but that doesn't mean start BT routine then, it means aim to have him asleep then.

Is he swaddled?

[nollie]

yes he's swaddled, without both arms..  i just got to get both hands free because he's a tummy sleeper ...

i tried your suggestion today..
E: 4 pm
S: 5 - 6.30
E: 6.45
changed to jammies at 7 and started BT and rocked to sleep at 7.25 .. at 7.30 he's asleep and at 8.15 pm he woke up.. then all hell broke loose... 
i reckoned it's 45 mins jolt... and since i'm not there to soothe him back to sleep... he's fully awake and hard to put back to sleep till 10 pm... (daddy did the finishing touch .. again...guess he got better temper to settle LO to sleep)

i might as well let him cry for 1 to 2 hours until he feel exhausted enough to sleep.. i'm being mean...  just need to vent a bit..

i just wish he'll outgrown it..
it's common at this age rite? at 12 week he should be practicing enough to settle better at night?

[becj86]

DH had the touch when DS was that age too. He'd be wriggling and carrying on whenever I held him and he'd relax and fall asleep within seconds of being in DH's arms - I think it was the calmness. LO can feel the frustration and while its really hard to let go of the frustration, it made an enormous difference when I relaxed...

Have you tried hold through the jolts? Or just going in at 40min and patting through the next 10mins or so to help him get through the 45min mark? As he gets towards 3 months sleep starts to become more cyclical, so day naps may shorten as he has to learn to get through the sleep cycles during the day but night sleep cycles start to move towards being more adult-like, every 2-3hr.

[nollie]

yes i agree.. being calm makes a HUGE difference.. last night he fell asleep with no crying .. 
still a lot of rocking and swaying tho.. i didn't count the hour, just looked closely at his cue, here goes:

7 - start BT
7-8 sleep (with lots of jolts, rooting, waking up and rock, sway)
8-8.30 wake up (talking singing together and read a book in dim light)
8.30 - EAT
8.45 - 10.30 (sway and rock, lots of jolts, rooting, waking up and sleep again until he's in a deep sleep then ..
10.30 put to bed (on his tummy) --> pat until he finally settled
11.00 - deep sleep
12.00 - E, rock to sleep
02.30 - E, rock to sleep
06.00 - E

there's time after his BT that he fully awoke and wanted to talk.. (how to eliminate this?)
and about that lots of jolts.. any idea to minimize that .. or he'll outgrown it?

i didn't know his exact bedtime so i just waited on him and pat him everytime he stirred

This past 2 days i let him sleep till 9am in the morning to payback the loss night time sleep due to the crying, if i want to make his night sleep from 7.30 pm to 7.30 am, should i start by wake him up 7.30 in the morning, or gradually wake him up half hour earlier, than his usual wake up time?

and i'm a bit confuse with this:

As he gets towards 3 months sleep starts to become more cyclical, so day naps may shorten as he has to learn to get through the sleep cycles during the day but night sleep cycles start to move towards being more adult-like, every 2-3hr.

[becj86]

This past 2 days i let him sleep till 9am in the morning to payback the loss night time sleep due to the crying, if i want to make his night sleep from 7.30 pm to 7.30 am, should i start by wake him up 7.30 in the morning, or gradually wake him up half hour earlier, than his usual wake up time?

Yes, the only way to get him to want to go to bed at 7:30pm is for him to be up for the day at 7:30am. I would just do this suddenly at this age.

there's time after his BT that he fully awoke and wanted to talk.. (how to eliminate this?)

This seemed to be mainly before 9pm, so still when 'day' was happening for him as he got up at 9am... Get him up at 7:30 regularly and this should decrease. Also, don't engage him when he wants to talk after bedtime. After he is put to bed, its only feed, change nappy if necessary and back to bed. No talking, no reading, no engaging. Singing only if it is your version of shush/pat.

and about that lots of jolts.. any idea to minimize that .. or he'll outgrown it?

This he will outgrow. It just takes time.

and i'm a bit confuse with this:
Quote from: becj86 on April 24, 2012, 09:40:05 PM
As he gets towards 3 months sleep starts to become more cyclical, so day naps may shorten as he has to learn to get through the sleep cycles during the day but night sleep cycles start to move towards being more adult-like, every 2-3hr.

Sorry! I didn't meant to confuse you. Just saying that around 3-4months of age, babies sleep gets more of a cycle to it - light and deep sleep and they have to learn how to get through the light sleep rather than waking up...

[nollie]

hi.. I’d been experimenting this past 2 days.. Wake up & BT at 7. BT still a struggle for me but luckily DH always come to the rescue .. i'm thinking that my own method of rocking and swaying is no longer effective, whilst DH's still ok.. and i can't depend on DH since he usually arrives home at 9pm ..

Usually it takes 2 hours for LO to sleep.. with a couple of extreme crying episode in the middle of BT routine : sleep, jolt, sucking everything reachable, settle down, sleep, jolt and so on… till DH home.
i'm almost at my wits end.. so i'm thinking to introduce paci for BT only...  to avoid bloody murder cry at night… i didn't give paci and bottle to my first LO .. so with DS1 going well enough it’s quite a decision to make. Do you have any experience on that because I don’t want it to become his props…

Sorry! I didn't meant to confuse you. Just saying that around 3-4months of age, babies sleep gets more of a cycle to it - light and deep sleep and they have to learn how to get through the light sleep rather than waking up...

HA.. it's going to be another battle then..  .. the sleep training should start, rite?

[becj86]

I did give DS a dummy (when he was 3 days old and the lactation consultant suggested it ) and it became a comfort item at 5 months when he could replug himself. It was never really an issue for us, as we only gave it to him when he was crying - not just whenever he spat it out and he never woke very frequently for it. It can become a prop however careful you are and if you're not prepared to get up in the night to replug, I wouldn't suggest starting with a dummy as you are signing up for some time of replugging and/or weaning down the track. Maybe you could introduce a lovey instead?

HA.. it's going to be another battle then..    .. the sleep training should start, rite?

Yes, but gently does it - shush/pat is best at this age and honestly, I drove myself mad trying to get DS to sleep in his cot during the day, then I let him sleep on me til he was 3.5months old and I decided we'd tackle it one weekend. By the end of the weekend, he slept a good 1.5hr nap in his cot consistently through the day. I do think there's something to be said for keeping LO well rested and getting onto a good routine before doing sleep training

I'm wondering if you should start BT routine a bit earlier for him. I'm reading that you're aiming for him to be asleep by 7 but he's still awake and screaming at 9 when your DH gets home?

[ZacsMumme]

I was thinking the same as bec with regards to BT routine starting earlier, maye try 30 mins to start with?

[nollie]

yes i moved his BT routine (jammies) half n hour earlier last night (he hates changing clothes) and he fell asleep at 7.30.. then half hour later he cried again and it's escalade till 11, when he finally fell asleep.. i noticed this past 3 days his tantrum always start around 8 and ended either 9 or 11 pm.. me n DH started to think that it's colic.. so at the end we gave him his med.. but then he still got 1 hour episode before he finally settled..
its happen again this morning at 10.. he cried hysterically then suddenly stopped after we gave him his meds (not sure he stopped because the shock of getting the meds or because the meds is working)
i reckon he cried this afternoon because he's cranky of not getting enough sleep at night (i read somewhere that OT can be a reason for colic episode in a baby) so my question is.. shoud i continue waking him up at 7 am?

and for catnap at the evening.. lets say i BF him at 4 and put him back to sleep at 5, when should i wake him up from his catnap? and when should i put him to sleep for night sleep? should i feed him again before bed?

thank u soo much

[ZacsMumme]

That is progress I would try even earlier for BT then. If you CN at 5-5.30 I would try to have him in bed by 6.30, so wake, Btroutine and feed then into bed. what do you think bec?

[becj86]

Yeah, I'd go with no more than an hour from wakeup to back asleep after the catnap if you can manage it - that waking frequently after bedtime is probably related to overtiredness/discomfort or both. Keep waking him at 7am - it will take a little while to switch his body clock around and you may benefit from taking him out in the sunshine in the morning to help him make the day/night association better.

Also, to help with the gas, etc. you can bicycle his legs, push them up to his belly and do tummy massages - light moon-shaped left to right strokes (hip, up to ribs, back down to other hip) and light strokes down his belly (chest to hips) will help move it all through. If you do this when he wakes - just before a feed, the painful bit of actually passing it is done while he's feeding and it seems not to hurt as much (or at least LO's don't notice it as much ).

And yes, I'd feed and burp well before bed

[nollie]

Hi bec, sara.. 2 nights in a row, we did the BT with no crying and no meds.. yeey!!.. 
still rocking, swaying, bouncing and fuzzing until 9 pm.. (I just can’t make him fully settled until then) but at least no crying …
Only last night when he had his extra excitement at daytime .. he cried again (until 9pm)..

so I guess it will always be hit or miss everytime.. but at least I know what to expect…
Still dreading BT.. at 3 months his rhythm will change again, rite? .. so I just wait till then … Not giving up.. but it’s just easier to deal with colic if we accept the inevitable 
thank u so much for all the helpful tips and attention.. it helps that there are people who cares and know that we’re not alone in this kind of problem..

[ZacsMumme]

Great progress, he is still so little and learning how to sleep - TBH Z never slept independently till 4 months and he was fine...esp when they are not 100% sleep training becomes a losing battle really.

HUGS