Night wakings from 4:10am on - every 30 mins - feeling desperate - Help!

[Jenybean2]

Help!!

I wrote in before about possible night wakings... but I don't know what to do again.

LO is 3 1/2 months old and is up every night at 4:10am  .  He is about 15 lbs.. and on a pretty good schedule during the day... although lately has been seeming like he could go 4 hours...but not quite ready yet.  He goes 4 hours between feeds... but isn't ready to be awake for 2 hours at a time yet (possibly because he is overtired from his 4:10 wake-ups that continue all morning).

Here's been his schedule the last 2 days:

7am - feed
8:30 - 10:30/11am - Sleep (lately seems tired at 8am)
10:30 or 11am - Feed (depending on length of nap)
12:30 -2:30 -  sleep (sometimes wakes - only recently - in the middle of this nap - but I can get him to go back usually)
2:30 - Feed
4:15 -6:30 - Sleep
6:30-7:30 - bedtime routine and Feed
11pm - dream feed
4:10am - wake....fussing... but not really crying... eventually I go in... if it's been 30 mins or more of this "fussing".. even though he's not crying... but more because my 4 year old has been complaining the baby is waking him up... so I go in.. put the pacifier back in settle him... and leave the room.  He typically sleeps or is quiet (not sure) for 30 mins and then it starts all over again... this goes on every 30-45 mins until 6:30 or 7 when he is actually crying for food at that point.

(before this he was eating at 7, 10, 1, 4, 7, and 11 - give or take 30 mins)

He still has swaddle for naps, but not at night.  He uses the paci to go to sleep (I have no idea if it was a prop.. but our older son had it for a long time  ).
We just recently had to switch to formula (done over the last week slowly) due to food allergies..but he was waking like this before the formula as well.

He takes 5 bottles a day.. all 4-5 oz each time.

Is he hungry at 4:10am?? - he's not doing the hungry cry... but perhaps if I fed him he'd go back to sleep for more than 30 mins... but I don't want to start a feed if I don't have.

He also sleeps in the crib with the paci (loves his hands though.. but not consistently finding them yet).  He also has a blanket he really likes... and will get comfy and try to fall asleep instantly when it is near his cheek/head.... is this a prop??

We are all exhausted... and not sure what to do... should we feed at 4:10?... is the paci or blanket a prop?... haven't used sh/pat yet because he was always a good sleeper..... but now feel like I'm doing something or everything wrong.

As I also said - he goes 4 hours between eating.. but can't stay awake for more than 1 or 1 1/2 hours... (probably because he's really tired from his long morning of awake/asleep dance).

Help - please  ... we're all really tired not sure what to do next...or what we're doing wrong.

Thanks so much for reading!

[ZacsMumme]

Hun I would def feed him most LOs at this age need a NF still anyway, some up to 5-6 months after feeding PD and see if he resettles to sleep for a few more hours : x

[Jenybean2]

Hi - thanks for replying - I did feed him last night at your suggestion - and he went back to sleep from 4:30 until 6:45 then woke with a power poop. so he did well:)

I just didn't know what to do because my first son slept from dream feed until 6:30am at this age.. and I have friends with children same age as my LO and they are sleeping 7-8 hours at night... I guess they are all different and he's not ready for that yet even though he's big for his age.

I do have another question though - our little guy is waking up for this dream feed.... like wide awake...We want to give it at 11pm so he lasts longer... but he is often wide awake at 10:15.. and cries off and on (we keep putting the paci in) until 11pm... sometimes he lasts til 11pm.. but is still not "sleepy" when eating... he does go back.. but is the point for him to be sleepy so you're extending his sleep?  Should we move up the dream feed? - or up his oz during the day?  Thanks

[ZacsMumme]

"I just didn't know what to do because my first son slept from dream feed until 6:30am at this age.. and I have friends with children same age as my LO and they are sleeping 7-8 hours at night... I guess they are all different and he's not ready for that yet even though he's big for his age."

You have to remember that too Hun, he is is own wee person. My boy was always big too, well fed, but started waking at 4 mths for a NF, till 6 mths, he genuinely was hungry. It was a lot less stressful for us all to feed him, than try to keep him going longer and get stressed baby and mum and EW

Hugs x

[*Kara*]

I do have another question though - our little guy is waking up for this dream feed.... like wide awake...We want to give it at 11pm so he lasts longer... but he is often wide awake at 10:15.. and cries off and on (we keep putting the paci in) until 11pm... sometimes he lasts til 11pm.. but is still not "sleepy" when eating... he does go back.. but is the point for him to be sleepy so you're extending his sleep?  Should we move up the dream feed? - or up his oz during the day?  Thanks

Tracy suggested just feeding if he woke earlier than the proper DF time.. by putting him off, you are only disrupting his sleep.

I agree with Sara - feed at 4am wake time.

In general, it is always advisable to feed a baby who is not resettled easily back to sleep until he/she is fed... this is a genuine hunger waking.  If he was easily resettled for a long stretch of sleep (over 2 hrs), then we would look at shifting feeds.

[Erin M]

Just wanted to agree with PPs, I found all of mine, but especially with ds (my biggest BTW, bigger doesn't always mean able to go longer at night!) those up and down NWs were just hunger and when I fed him, he'd just go right back to sleep which was nicer for all of us. 

[Khalam's Mama]

Some experts even suggest that bigger babies will likely need a NF from 4-6m more than smaller babies.

I agree I would feed at 4am. Have you tried to increase his bottle size in the day so add some extra calories. maybe this would help the DF and the NF.

[becj86]

4:15 -6:30 - Sleep

This could be part of the issue. He's only up for an hour after a full nap, so may be shifting his day to 4-4 instead of 7:30-7:30. It may be time to start cutting this nap off a bit, maybe not to catnap status just yet but just moving it towards being a catnap in the next month or so.

I'd definitely be feeding at 4am though, he's doing pretty well to be sleeping DF to 4am Waking every 30min would indicate he's hungry or uncomfortable, so if feeding fixes it, its safe to assume he's hungry, especially at this age.

[Jenybean2]

Hi all - Thanks so much for the info.  We are feeding at that 4am time now when he wakes and he does seem hungry (sucks the bottle right down)... and then with a little help of the paci.. he will go back to sleep until 7am.. sometimes I have to wake him.   

I do have a question about our schedule though in response to bej86 post about his day being 4 to 4 instead of 7 to 7.... I've been wondering if that could be an issue..... We were doing 3 naps and a cat nap on a 3 hr EASY schedule....but we always have to wake him from that cat nap to eat... He would barely last til 5:30/5:45 pm to take the cat nap... and his nap before that would have been over at 4 or 4:30.. so he should last more than an hour right?... Then he would sleep for his cat nap.. between 5:45/6pm.. until we wake him..which frankly with my toddler is sometimes not until 7pm or 7:30 even if it's a crazy night with schedules/dinner, etc.

So his CN could be anywhere from 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours.. which I know is too long... and his other naps are good too....I thought maybe it's time to switch to a 3.5 or 4 hr schedule... so I tried to move towards 3.5 hours (which just led to more sleep as he is not able to stay awake more yet)... and that's when the nap from 4:15-6pm happened.  See below for the EASY we were moving towards with the 3.5 hours.

7am - feed
8:30 - 10:30/11am - Sleep (in car or swing due to preschool drop off)
10:30 or 11am - Feed (depending on length of nap)
12:30 -2:30 -  sleep (sometimes wakes - only recently - in the middle of this nap - but I can get him to go back usually)
2:30 - Feed
4:15 -6:30 - Sleep
6:30-7:30 - bedtime routine and Feed
11pm - dream feed
4:10am - wake - feed*then has been sleeping til 7ish

Not sure where I'm going wrong here... with my first little guy.. he didn't do the CN... and he slept 7 to 6am with dream feed...Not sure if the CN is messing us up.. but he's too tired to not crash.

Yesterday he had a short morning nap because the car stopped (in our drive way ;O)... and he wouldn't go back down inside.... (so only 45 mins nap).. But then he slept for his next nap from 11:30-2pm.  Should I lengthen other day time naps to get rid of CN??... I do wonder if he thinks 4 to 4 is his "Day" and not 7 to 7... how to fix??

I also have tried more food in the bottles.. but he won't drink it.. but perhaps I'm feeding too close together at 3 or 3.5 hours?

I am going to keep feeding when he wakes at 4am til I figure this out... but I had been wondering if his rhythm was off.. just wondering what you all think?

[Khalam's Mama]

I didn't notice how late that nap was. i would wake him at 6pm at the latest for a 7.30pm BT or even 5.30 if you want a 7am-7pm routine. Given the last nap is not a cat nap at all really there is no reason he can't do a full A time after it.