Need to vent-20month old and 3year old

[scucci1979]

We had ews when Alyssa was before 1 and until last week, I didn't have to experience any with her.  i don't know if she is stuck in the OT/UT loop. 
I cut her nap to 1hr and 45mins 2 months ago. She normally sleeps about 1hr and 40mins and I don't think I should cut her nap further b/c she seems so young still. her sister at this age was still giving me a 2.5hour nap. She seems to enjoy a shorter morning A and a longer A to bed. Now I am in this stuck in the ew cycle with her and don't know how to get out of it. She normally makes up her sleep at night so could also be developmental. She is putting so many words together now. 
I would normally have to wake her at 7am but now she is waking 6-6:30am.
When she wakes she cries in the am and this wakes up Madison. Madison will come storming in her room and of course this further wakes up Alyssa thinking it is time to play.  I keep telling Madison to stay in her room and wait for me b/c when she comes into her sister's room, it wakes her up. I don't know what to do with that.  If I tell her to back to her room, she will cry and do so for a few minutes. i am by myself during the night so here I am running back to both girls rooms.  This also happens if A has a nw. 

here is A's normal routine
wake 7am
nap 12:30-2:10
bed and asleep 7:50am

now with EW
wake 6-6:30am
nap 12:15-2pm 2:10pm(she wakes on her own)
bed and asleep 7:40pm

tried earlier bedtime but she just clowns around.

[*Becky*]

oh hugs sabs - it is so hard when one of them EW's isn't it. I am going through it too and the 1-0 so I do know how hard it is.
What I wouldsay is try not to think what Madi was doing at that age as it sounds like A and M are really quite different sleep wise - am I right? I know at that age Madi was quite high sleep needs but A is not??

So - the main reasons we would see EW's are...
1. OT
2. UT
3. Teeth

Is she teething?

Is she prone to UT EW's?

[scucci1979]

they are so different in many ways. LOL  It is really hard not to compare.  I stopped looking at Madi's Easy log to compare. 
Not to mention the 1-0 is another story.

I have a feeling that is UT leading to OT. I think we are in the OT cycle now.  She never goes down easy unless she is tired. I can get an earlier nap out of her but when bt rolls around she just plays in her crib, call me back, stand up and jump in her crib.
Her last canine just cut last week. I doubt those pesky 2 year old molars are coming. 

We got ews before she turned one as she was telling me she needed to drop her nap.  She is a lower sleep need toddler but can easily do 11.5hours if she napped less then 1.5hours.  I am debating to try capping her nap to 1.5hours for one week.  I am out of options. I was hoping it was her canines but now that the last one cut she is no longer sleeping in.  This morning she woke at 6:15am and put her down at noon. It took her a while to settle as she was clearly OT.

[MommaBrooke]

Hi Sabrina, I remember we went through the 2-1 together with our little ladies...and L is going through the 1-0 right now so I would say it's probably time to start cutting A's nap   With L it started with early mornings, rotten nights and refusing nap or making a big fuss at her normal bedtime...now she's at the point where she's having 3-4 no nap days a week (at 19 months, eek!).  I was able to draw out the transition first by cutting her nap and keeping A time to bed around the same, then when she started putting up a fuss at bedtime again I pushed bedtime back.  That may help you keep the nap around for a little while longer

[scucci1979]

I think you may be right! Yikes!! I woke her up close to 2hrs but I know she needed it. Really needed it! I hope I can regulate her then start cutting.
the thing is that when I wake her she is so upset. Very upset.

[MommaBrooke]

the thing is that when I wake her she is so upset. Very upset.

Yeah, it's the same with L   I usually put on Curious George to watch and we sit and have a cuddle after I wake her up, that usually keeps her pretty happy.

[clairebear79]

Hi Sabs - I PM'd you.   Agree with Brooke re the nap cut & I also think the earlier wake may be a sign she needs a longer AM A time, perhaps 6hrs now. 

I think the only risk with waiting for her to catch up first before you cut is that while you keep offering the longer nap, she will continue to pull a shorter night.  And the more shorter nights she does, the more OT she will get, then you get all the crying when you wake her in the morning/from her nap like you are getting now.  Its very difficult b/c most folks would say if she is crying then she is OT, which yes she may be, but its probably UT at the root cause of it all. 

IIWM I would probably try the 1.5hr nap for a week or two.  She might need it even shorter.  The only thing I will say though is that if you keep the nap & BT where they currently are, but shorten the nap to under 1.5hrs, you may find she gets OT by bedtime.  I've found O copes better these days with a slightly longer morning & shorter afternoon, so if nap cutting & keeping nap time the same doesn't help, then I would try very gently nudging her nap later towards 1pm & this may encourage a later WU.

xx

[MommaBrooke]

So nice to see you Claire    You must be an ew pro by now

I forgot to mention we also pushed L's nap out a bit as well to keep her from refusing it.  When she does nap her day usually looks like this:

7am Wakeup
1-2 Nap
8pm Bed

I'll be back if I remember anything else that may be helpful, lol

[scucci1979]

thanks ladies.
claire is the ew pro now.
 
so are you saying that I should push her nap out a little, cap it to 1.5hours and do a slightly shorter A to bed??
I think you are right, Claire, she will probably cope better with a longer A in the am then pm. It is just I am sure she will want to sleep more if I wake her.
I always thought an UT nap would be better with these type of kiddos.

[clairebear79]

If your gut says she'll do better with an earlier & UT nap & longer A to BT, then do that first i.e. keep nap where it is but cut it shorter.  Mummy's instinct is usually right!  Keep your eye on her with a view to usual BT but you may need to bring it a bit earlier to prevent her getting OT. 
And perhaps reserve pushing the nap later until you get nap resistance/refusal, or if the EW don't improve with the earlier capped nap. 

IME Oliver usually EW's when he needs more A in the AM, or if he is UT at BT.  I am finding though, that he is now starting to get mad if I put him down too early, so an early UT nap isn't an option for us!!!  He's seeming to be tired at the 6hr mark, so its just the length of the nap & the A time to BT we need to figure out now lol!

[scucci1979]

TBH Claire, I have no idea what she likes anymore.
I know if we do lots of outdoor activities in the am, she would want her nap earlier. With low key activities she can easily do 6hours.
I woke her at 2:05pm and aimed for a 7:30pm bt. I know it was a very long day for her. She was acting up at bt. telling me to stay, etc. Took her 20mins to fall asleep.

[scucci1979]

5:15am this morning. Yuck! I got her to doze off again until Madison came running into her room Sigh.
How am I supposed to shorten her nap if her nights are short???