open cup drinking

[creations]

I thought DS was doing pretty well with his independent eating and drinking, until the supervisor at a new play group said that they don't give out sippy cups at snack time, it is open cups only.  No choice.

DS LOVES being offered an open cup, I know he wants one all the time, and I am not adverse to mess, we did BLW so I've had my share of cleaning up to do.  BUT part of me just thinks, really do they have to have an open cup at play group?  This means taking a full change of clothes because I know full well he will get SOAKED.  The supervisor suggested a little bib, hmmm...that hasn't helped when we've done open cup drinking at home, the water pours straight down his chin, neck and to the inside of his bib, top and vest, soaking everything.
I had basically thought that using a range of open cup, free flow sippy and straw at home would be ok, gradually practising with the open cup until he had more skill.  I don't offer an open cup all the time because I'd be having to dry and change him at every meal and snack time which just isn't possible if you're dashing out to get somewhere.
Am I wrong though?
Should I have been giving him an open cup all these months?
Have I let him down and held him back?

I'm not even going to be at this new group as it's a dad's club, DP will be there with DS and DP struggles with dressing and undressing as it is.  I feel like I've let them both down by not ensuring DS has this skill before they go

[*jazzberry*]

Seems pretty early to expect them to be able to do this imo. My boys didn't consistently drink well from an open cup until around 2 years, and even then there was a fair amount of accidental (and deliberate) spilling. I don't doubt that some of them are capable at this age but mine weren't and I certainly wouldn't feel bad about it

[Mashi]

I don't think that at 15 months you have held your child back by not giving hi an open cup. I am not sure we ever really 'gave' my DS an open cup more than occassionally, and when he started kindergarten at 3yo he started using one there and then now uses one at home most of the time (exception being when he is taking his drink with him to play in the living room, etc).  He isn't or wasn't "behind" in any way - he picked up a cup and knew how to use it, yk?

Personally, I would just take my own sippy cup to the playgroup. They don't need to give you one of their cups but it is also extremely power-trippy and a bit ridiculous of a play group leader to demand that 15 month olds are forced to drink out of an open cup and get soaked  Or at very least I would take a straw to stick in the cup.   Or else help him with the cup by helping him to hold it when he drinks.  I mean it's play group with 1yos, that leader needs to relax a bit IMO!!

[Chicane]

I find that a really weird rule. Did she offer an explanation why? DS uses an open cup at home but a sippy cup when out and about, for the same reasons as you give but also because its just easier to travel around with a full sippy cup rather than a normal cup plus a bottle of water or juice. To be quite frank I find rules like that just plain silly and being the subversive that i am I would just continue to go with the sippy cup until someone says something and then I would say with a huge smile on my face "Well, okay, you can change his clothes and wipe up the floor when he's done then!"

And also I think there would be so many - a huge amount - of kids the same age as yours that would still not be adept at that skill and its just crazy to force it on them before they are ready. You have not let anyone down - you are just letting your LO develop at his own pace with no pressure - pretty normal and sane if you ask me.

Sorry maybe not so helpful, but really, people and their crazy rules with no basis in reality and no real purpose just drive me nuts!

[Lolly]

Neither of mine were drinking from open cups at that age without the mess you described either! They had open cups when they started pre-school at 2 but I still use a variety of open/ straw/ flip top cups around the house etc.

What about giving him an open cup with fresh water in the bath to practise? Or you could try a doidy cup which is easier to use.

Laura

[creations]

Thanks ladies.

accidental (and deliberate) spilling

Oh yes there is deliberate spilling here too, in my mind totally normal and part of the process of learning when and how the water pours out and what it feels like.

extremely power-trippy and a bit ridiculous of a play group leader to demand that 15 month olds are forced to drink out of an open cup

Yes that's what I've been thinking too...although of course ended up questioning myself and hence the post
All the other play groups I go to the smaller LOs have sippy and the the older LOs have open cup but it is always a choice for the parent/child to make, the supervisors prepare a whole tray of cups and put lids on roughly the right number, then get more lids or take some off if they need to as they are being handed out.  It all looks very natural and normal at those groups and I've never felt that mine was the only one at that age using a sippy lid.

Or else help him with the cup by helping him to hold it when he drinks.

Even if I help him at home he still pours it everywhere.  Also I won't be there, only DP and he really isn't so good with this type of thing, knowing how to hold or help etc.

Did she offer an explanation why?

It's a male supervisor fir this dad's club.  He said his role is to push/encourage LOs development.  I could understand this for kids who are 3,4 or 5 years old still sucking juice from a teated bottle because the parents haven't thought to move on.

I would just continue to go with the sippy cup

Yes I think I'll be packing the boys off with a sippy this morning.  The supervisor described how at snack time HE controls how much water goes in the open cups, he said just a little, then after they've drunk it a little more (after they've poured it everywhere he means). If my DS is thirsty, really thirsty, he is going to kick off about not being given enough water and an independent way of drinking.  I mean he uses a loaded fork to eat some of his food at meal times but if he is really hungry he returns to totally independent eating with his fingers, it makes sense to me, he wants to go faster so uses a skill he already mastered.
I also think he needs his own sippy cup there because he is sometimes thirsty before the snack time at some groups and I also think at this age they shouldn't be forced to wait to fit in with someone else's routine.
I feel quite worried about them going, as I don't know how DP is going to handle this.

you are just letting your LO develop at his own pace with no pressure - pretty normal and sane if you ask me.

Thank you for this reassurance!  This is what I try to do.

What about giving him an open cup with fresh water in the bath to practise?

Yes, we do sometimes do this too, although he seems to find it a bit confusing as to which water he can drink and which he isn't supposed to.

Again, thank you all.
The new place looks really nice, it's such a shame that I've ended up feeling somewhat negative about it.

[Chicane]

Wow - the supervisor sounds a bit controlling...hmmm wonder if he might have some parental issues of his own to work through???

[cuckoochick]

I'm with the others. We allow C plenty of opportunities to drink from open cups at home (she's actually really good now) but when we're out and about it's a free flow sippy that I pack with water from home. Last night we went out for the first time with just the doidy but I also took a straw along too (first time DD had juice out too!) as C loves using the straw and this was all fine.

IIWM I'd pack a sippy/straw cup to take along but if DS wants to try the open cup, then let him have a go. Would he be open to your DP helping him? I know at home C is miss independent and in an I do it phases but out and about she's much more amenable to a bit of help (probably as she's spending far too much time being nosey!).

Hugs- you're a fab mum and this group leader sounds a bit of a power trip type!

[creations]

hmmm wonder if he might have some parental issues of his own to work through???

made me laugh

I take straws out with us at times, it takes a LOT of focus and effort to stop DS pouring the whole cup of water over himself though.  He likes drinking from the straw but still wants to pour the water out of the cup.

I think we just have to accept that he will get soaked today and I'll encourage DP to have the confidence to tell the supervisor that he wants to use a sippy lid in the future, or outside of the official snack time.  Who knows it may turn out a lot better than I am expecting.  I just don't need the added pressure for DP to deal with this as he is already an anxious person and it's a big deal him going to a new group on his own with DS.
If it was me taking DS I'd prob be more relaxed, but I'd prob put my foot down too about using the sippy lid as I'm really not into carting a change of clothes about with me, I am a really light traveller and my priority goes to all the additional snacks DS needs because the groups snacks are never enough for him.

[Papaya]

Craziness! F is pretty good with an open cup IF I help her, but there's no way I'd just hand her a cup, at a playgroup, where she's probably distracted by other things, and let her go for it. Recipe for disaster. I'd send our own sippy along with DP too

[koe2moe]

It does sound very demanding to offer only open cups.  If you are still going to let them go to this particular group, perhaps just take this as a learning opportunities for both DS and DH?  DH needs to learn how to do things better.  Perhaps he never got enough practice.  it is like BLW, people need to learn by making a mess.  That goes for DH also.  I was guilty of not letting him have a go sometimes.  I still put only a small amount of water in the open cup for DS and fill it when he wants more.  Even spilling it wont make him soaked.  Whereas DH mostly pours a full cup and that is asking for trouble.  But he will clean up the mess, and when it is only water, i bite my tongue. 

Drinking from an open cup is very important skill that helps for speech development.  Dont worry too much, it is just water and changing.  Wont hurt!  HTH

[amayzie]

I thought play groups didn't demand such things!! It sounds as if they are trying to throw dads/blokes in at the deep end!! I'm sure there will be a number there that have not ever used an open cup!! We've been big lovers of the open cup- but it is often used as a finger bowl!! I thought the recommendations were no bottles at 1- not directly to an open cup- in all environments!

Oh well- it is only water i guess.... I would think though at his age that it ould be better if he was more independent rather than having DP standing holding the bottom of the cup or something, if he had a sippy or straw cup then he could be much more independent!

It sounds like a great program otherwise- getting dads involved with the basics- it might be a trick to get them right there and directly hands on with the LO- open cups are a way to ensure they can't be checking facebook or e-mails on their phones (not a reflection on your DP- but i can imagine that there'd be some dads out there that would be like that...)

[creations]

open cups are a way to ensure they can't be checking facebook or e-mails on their phones

haha Katy!  I never thought of that!

Update on how it went.
DP took change of clothes, a towel to dry DS if he got REALLY soaked, sippy cup with lid, snacks, etc etc...it looked like they were going away for a month by the time it was all packed.
The group is lovely, when I went to pick them up I arrived earlier than needed and a few kids were running in and out of the building and around an enclosed out door play area, it really did look very happy and lovely, I was quite jealous!
I saw DP and DS and DS was clearly having a WONDERFUL time.  A few of the dads made a point of saying goodbye and hope they saw DP again next time when they left and this can only be a good thing for DP.

The issue on the water - well - I wasn't happy
I know at the start of this thread I was questioning myself, had I let them both down by not ensuring DS had this skill before attending, but I really don't feel that way at all now.  I feel confident that I have been doing the right thing and that this rule at this group is plain ODD.
The vast majority of the kids are much much older, some looked like teens, almost all were clearly old enough for open cups to be used independently.  So I don't know why the supervisor was making a big deal of pushing open cup drinking when there's only a few LOs there - just let them have a sippy for goodness sake!

What really annoyed me, DP told me the cups given were not even the plastic sippy cups without the top on, no, they were adult china mugs.  I am very against this at DS's age.  Maybe you ladies have some different ideas on this (if so please share, I am far more open minded to BWing ladies opinions than I am some supervisor at a play group) but I DO NOT allow DS to go anywhere near a china/ceramic mug.

As soon as DS was cruising and started to notice mugs at home I would tell him 'no, hot!' (with a bit of action to go with it) when he went near one (even if it was empty) and I ensured he never got his hand on it.  Hot drinks are generally kept out of his way for safety but I don't try to 'hide' them, and so long as I am sitting right next to my drink it will sometimes be within reaching distance but only when I am fully engaged in minding him so I can reinforce the instruction not to touch it.  I wanted DS to gradually learn that this was an item he mustn't touch.  Now he's running all over the place he will go towards my mug, stop, give the stop sign and very proudly babble a kind of 'stop don't touch' type of sentence whilst shaking his head.  He looks at me really proudly that he understands and I confirm to him that it is 'hot!' and he turns away and goes on playing.
For me this is a good lesson.
Giving him a china cup at play group is totally confusing.
Not only does it confuse the lesson given at home but also the dads at group were drinking hot tea and coffee.  How is my DS supposed to know which mugs he is supposed to pick up and pour over himself and which he is supposed to leave alone because they are dangerous and could burn him?
The groups I go to the adults are never given hot drinks, we don't get drinks, all the drinks and snacks are for the children, seems normal to me.
Add to that, DP said DS was banging his china mug hard on the table, well yeah, I mean he is only 15 months, so there's a risk of him breaking the cup and getting hurt too.  Maybe the supervisor sees this as another required lesson, to teach them not to bang their drinks

So, DP and I have agreed that next time DP will take DS's sippy and will not allow the china mug to be offered.  It's up to DP if he want's to do open cup or use the sippy lid.  I did ask if he felt DS had had enough to drink and he said no.  He had tried to offer DS a drink from his sippy in secret (!) but he felt overall DS was probably thirsty.  I said this is wrong, a child this age shouldn't be left thirsty, and could cause constipation, I don't think DP had thought about that possibility but I think next time he is going to just give DS the sippy and let him drink as much as he wants.

I'd love to go to one of the regular 'mums' groups (which don't exclude dads) at this place and see what rules are in place and what cups are offered etc.  Another thing I noticed was that some of the kids were running around with their snack (toast), this doesn't happen at the groups I attend.  The kids basically sit really nicely and eat and drink together and when finished eating then they can go play again - obviously this sort of polite eating is not one of the lessons given at this place.
It really is a lovely environment and I think it's great they offer this saturday dads group.

[amayzie]

I was wondering if most of the kids were older...

[becj86]

China mugs? They're nuts if they think that's ok for such little people to be using. I don't think its so unusual for hot drinks for the adults but they sit around a table and the kids sit down together and snack/drink water.

Open cup drinking at 15 months is a nice to have, not a necessity and FWIW, in your shoes, I'd send DH along with a sippy for DS.

I do a similar thing to what you're doing with hot things but only when they're actually hot as they're not dangerous when they're not hot but breakables - that's different, they're always breakable so they are a no-no all the time.