PLEASE HELP 20 mo screaming at bedtime, wont go in cot

[*foxy*]

The night was pretty awful. She woke at 12 and was awake until about 1.15am she was calm but just couldn't seem to go to sleep and I have no idea why. I managed to keep her in her cot. She woke again at about 2am briefly. WU was 6.15am

[cath~]

Hi foxy

Sorry your night wasn't so good. It's not a smooth process though so I wouldn't worry about it too much. You're def on the right track.

In answer to the qns from your previous post, yes, when all is fine (ie not UT and not teething) L now settles w/o contact from me. Her molars are being pesky the last few days tho so she needed a bit more reassurance last night, but still fell asleep w/o me in the room in the end. When she's not teething/UT she settles really well on her own now.

When I was re-training her (and also now), when/if L started crying I would wait at first to give her chance to settle herself, then I tried to calm her by singing/shhing. Only if she got properly worked up (and it was a distress worked up, not a protest worked up) did I go back to her. But then I tried to limit my actions to asking her to lie down and then re-covering her with her blanket. Then I returned to where I was before and sung/shhed some more if needed. I really tried to limit the physical interaction with her as much as possible. During this stage I could tell that when she did cry it was protest at the changes and not real distress iyswim so I really tried to not respond to the cry with contact but only singing/shhing. That way, I was teaching her consistently how things were going to be but of course not leaving her on her own.

Yes, I would def ignore her if she's chatting. Perhaps if it goes on for a while you could remind her by saying something like 'shhh sleepy time'. But not if that would encourage her to chat more. You might have to try that out and see. If she's chatting (so obv not upset at all) you could also try moving a bit further away. That worked quite well with L. She protested a little but I was like a reminder to her that it was sleepy time, not play time. She is much less chatty when I'm not in the room with her now, although I still hear her saying 'goodnight' to her toys sometimes.

[*foxy*]

Thanks cathn, I'll definitely move further away tonight and only respond to the distress cry and I know how that sounds. She should definitely be tired following last night! Should I stick to a 1 hour nap?

[cath~]

Possibly, a bit late now and I'm not really one to ask about routine/EASY stuff...  But I might be tempted to do a touch longer nap IIWM (eg 1hr15), but I'm not sure that's necessarily 'right'.  Of course, you can always do EBT if nap is too short...

[*foxy*]

Hi

I did a nap for an hour and 15 mins as I thought she needed it. 12.45-2pm

At BT I sat next to the door, she didn't chat at me at all but I had to sing quite a lot! She started crying once I'd said good night and moved away from her cot but I sang to her and she settled fairly quickly. She kept asking for rock a bye baby!
 Then she did her usual wriggling, complaining and then started crying, it was a distressed cry so I moved next to her cot and stroked her leg, she calmed and I moved next to the door, as soon as I did that she started crying again, I moved next to her cot, stroked her leg again, she calmed and I moved away again, each time she got more upset so I stayed at the end of her cot, gently rolled her onto her side told her to go to sleep and broke contact, she rolled onto her back to see if I'd moved away which I didn't do. She wriggled and got upset again, I rolled her onto her side again maybe 3 times and then she didn't need me and went to sleep.

So I think some progress. I'm still feeling positive! We are also going to put her in her cot later as she always goes to sleep at around 7.30 (give or take 10mins) and we put her in her cot at 6.45 and I don't think she's quite ready to go to sleep. Maybe that will help.

[clairebear79]

Hi foxy - I've been hanging back as you've been getting some great help from the ladies & GW isn't really my area of expertise lol!  Sounds like you are doing really well.

We are also going to put her in her cot later as she always goes to sleep at around 7.30 (give or take 10mins) and we put her in her cot at 6.45 and I don't think she's quite ready to go to sleep. Maybe that will help.

I definitely think this is a good idea.  Sometimes if you put them in too early & they aren't tired enough to go to sleep, they can get so worked up (either chattering or crying) that they take forever to go to sleep & go past the point when they are nicely tired & end up OT.  I find with Oliver if I put him down 10mins before I want him asleep this usually works best.  Perhaps you could gradually work towards something like that, so start putting her in the cot at 7pm & see how quickly she settles.  If you see a wee bit of progress, you could gradually shift the putting down time to 7.15pm (maybe 5mins later per week) & see if she'll go to sleep for 7.30pm.  I think now she is falling asleep without intervention & certainly once you are out the door, you might see her settling times start to reduce.

Keep up the good work!xx

[*foxy*]

Thanks Claire,

I'll push things back 15 mins tomorrow, so as you say put her in her cot at 7pm and see how it goes, hopefully it will help.

[Kay Dee]

Great progress foxy, fingers crossed for tonight x

[clairebear79]

FX'd.  If it backfires & she goes to sleep even later - pull it back to 6.45pm again!

[*foxy*]

Hi

She sttn last night which was lovely!

BT tonight went well. She was quite upset when I put her in her cot which started some alarm bells in my head as we've had problems with her sleeping in her cot on Wednesdays (when she's been with the childminder) but I calmed her in her cot and she soon lay down. She got upset again when I moved to sit by the door like I did last night so I stayed quite near her until she calmed but made no contact. Then she stood up and started chatting so I moved to sit by the door so she knew I was serious about her going to sleep. This made her cry so I sang to her (whilst sitting by the door) she messed around a bit longer and asked me to sing again and then...........................she went to sleep all on her own!!!! I was so shocked and so happy!!  

I put her in her cot at 7pm and she was asleep by 7.35pm so I think that helped too

[Kay Dee]

Fantastic!!

Is her nap different at the childminders or do you think it's some SA?

Hope she STTN again

[*foxy*]

Hi

I asked the childminder to do a nap 12.45-2pm which she did, shes very good that way. I thought she might need a slightly longer nap at the childminders as she doesn't stop all day and is usually pretty tired. I think its a bit of SA as DD does suffer with this, although its got a lot better over the last month, she was really really awful a few weeks ago.

Thankyou, I hope she sttn again too!

[*foxy*]

She sttn again which is brilliant BUT she woke for the day at 5.40am. So that's a 10 hour night, she has been doing 10.75 hour nights recently. Is this an indication to cut the nap? The childminder said she was on great form yesterday and BT went really well so I don't think she's OT?

[Kay Dee]

Great she slept through again! Two nights in a row, yay! Shame about the early start though

It's quite likely now that she's sleeping better at night her nap needs to be shorter but I wouldn't cut it today as she's up so early. Stick with her regular nap today and if she sleeps later tomorrow you could try tweaking her nap a bit. I'd be inclined to try pushing it later a bit to see if that helps first, that's worked for Claire so you *may* be able to get away without cutting it.

What's your ideal bedtime and WU?

K x

[*foxy*]

Hi

So she'd usually nap 12.45-2pm, should I try 1-2.15pm? That's a very long am A time though?

Ideally we'd like 7.30-6.30 I'm not sure she'd do 7-6.30, would be good if she did but I just don't think she would! We need a 6.30 WU on the days I work so I can drop her off before work