Just - why? So frustrated!

[becj86]

Maybe try dummy weaning and see - it hasn't changed anything in the past but maybe now she's waking once it will

What is this remaining waking like? Its long - is it unsettled or is it possibly UT?

[anna*]

It's not a regular pattern. Sometimes she wakes just briefly but frequently (ie goes back down within a few mins or instantly with a replug). Last night we didn't hear a peep from her til 1am, then awake 1-2.45, slept til 3.30, fed and then back to sleep til 7.

She only had 3x 30mins naps yesterday so I think she can't have been UT?

[anna*]

Me again! Are you tired of this thread yet I know I am

So what about tonight. What do we think. Here are the options:

1) Stay as we are - which will be only night 3 of trying to not replug the dummy for her, although night 12? or 13? of no feeds before 8hrs
2) Feed at 1am(?) and muddle through whatever other wakings - not sure about this one, need a plan for the 3/4/5am waking
3) No replugging and give 3am feed from a bottle and slightly diluted

Also any thoughts on dummy weaning gratefully received. Although I couldn't start until Friday am.

[timmysmommy]

Hey Anna.  Just saw your post.  I don't have any advice as I'm in the same situation with nw's and dummy issues.  Just thought I'd follow along.  We gave back the dummy after a month because I couldn't get her to settle for naps, she became very OT and started waking every 45 min- 1.5 hr at night.  I think we've worked through it, but she is waking a few times to be replugged, and she surely should be sttn by now. 


Just wanted to tell you you are not alone!

[becj86]

3) No replugging and give 3am feed from a bottle and slightly diluted

I think this should preserve what progress you have made and possibly get you further along as you may find out if she's hungry/thirsty or just wanting a cuddle - presuming you do the bottle feed while she's still in her bed.

I wouldn't think she's UT after only 3x30min naps.

Re: the dummy, I'm not really in a position to comment - I know its been fantastic for us but DS has reliably replugged himself from 5 months and before that he didn't really wake for it... they are  a true comfort item for him. I don't the dummy is a comfort item for Audrey though - she doesn't seem to settle reliably with it.

[katie80]

I think the dummy has to be a personal call, because you are the one that has to deal with the weaning and then the aftermath.  What do you think is best for both Audrey and your family?

Bec has made a good point in choosing number three.  I'm so stubborn, I would choose #1, I think. Keep persevering until I'm sure it's not helping, which I guess for me would be two weeks.  But, you're almost there really, except for the dummy part. And it's really not fair probably for me to pick that one, because Claire has always been a 3 night rule girl. Graham's a whole different story, though.

Choice #2 seems to only get you back to where you were when you started the thread, so I'd probably throw that one out.

[anna*]

The worst night ever. Now she is refusing to BF, even. It is 5am and I have had two hours' sleep. This is why I am not comfortable giving a bottle - she had two bottles at the childminder today and now has refused to BF at all and has ended up having TWO bottles overnight. This is so unfair on Stan. All this attention on Audrey, and he gets shouted at for making noise and coming in our room. He can't go into our bed any more - after two nights he is already waking up and coming up with whatever excuse he can think of to get into our bed.

She won't even co-sleep, we tried that tonight. It is 5am and I am up on the computer too stressed and angry to sleep, Brad is trying (again) to get her back to sleep in the cot but I can hear it is a no-go. Stan is waking up.

She is leaving me no option but CIO, seriously. What else can I do? I can't BW, can't co-sleep, what is left?

[anna*]

If the dummy was an 'issue', wouldn't she settle easily for it once she got it in her mouth?

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi hun--

I've just read back through a few pages of this post.  I wish I had something brilliant to offer.  I don't. 

There is one thing I've done at times when I just got desperate with a baby and I felt confident that baby was healthy:  make a bed for myself on the floor next to the crib--stick my hand in the crib and then hum.  Baby knows I'm there, knows she's not abandoned, but I get to be horizontal--because really, at 3am, that's all I want sometimes.  Sometimes I'm able to fall asleep that way.  I've never used earplugs, but with earplugs, I bet it would be even easier to fall asleep. 

In your case, with the dummy, I'd personally ditch it totally, but if you're wanting to keep it, then I'd refuse to replug.  I'd just curl up on the floor, try to rest as best I could and let her try to figure it out. 

{{{Hugs}}}

[georgeo]

Could she be really, really OT? Dd has been doing 30 min naps for the past week and not having good nights. Today I stayed with her and put one arm over her legs and patted with the other hand on her belly/chest. I couldn't believe how much she jolted- no wonder she kept waking up. I did that until the 50 min mark today and ended up having to wake her after 2.5 hrs! I know it's rediculous to do it that long (I did take a break from about 15 to 25 min) but I was desperate to get her past that 30 and 45 min mark in the hopes that she will have better naps and hopefully better nights.

Lots of hugs to you and your family. Babies not sleeping seriously affect everyone's moods so much, especially the primary caregiver.

[anna*]

Thanks Bethany and Georgeo for joining me for support here too... and Amy so sorry you are having such a rough time too.

There is literally no room on the floor to sleep next to her cot (a space about 18" wide, just enough to stand in) but I guess I will be sleeping on the floor of the room. I am worried about Stan being in our bed but there is no way around it - after only two nights he was already waking and trying to come back, and if he cries or makes a noise in their room of course it wakes up little miss...

I will probably start weaning the dummy on Friday because it is just not possible to have it in the cot, 4am, her yelling, Stan waking, and not just replug it. That is a kind of discipline I don't have. I am fearful though that a) she won't sleep at all at the childminder's and will get fired from there (if that doesn't happen today, which I am expecting) and that b) we will go through it and still be having random long and/or short wakings at which I won't have any way at all of even trying to settle her.

Georgeo, she may well be OT but her nights do not change whether she has 30 mins naps or 1.5-2hr naps. It is totally variable how long she naps for and I have no way to predict whether any nap will be long or short. I am always expecting short but often she will do 1, or 1.5 or 2hrs. I don't know how I can get her to consistently nap well. Last night she was OT for sure and will be again tonight but again I can't make her nap at her childminders. She was asleep before 6.15 last night, I will have to try for earlier tonight.

[binxyboo]

First, just want to say huge huge hugs to you.

After reading through your posts, I seriously would like to vote for the co-sleeping suggestion made earlier. I know you said she doesn't want to do that, but from reading what you said, she only seems to resist it after you have been on one of the stand offs against her. Perhaps she is too upset and emotional at that point to settle into bed with you. What if you tried just bringing her into bed with you at the first night waking after you go to bed? Just let her snuggle to sleep with you for the night? let her nurse if she wants, and then just try to see how her nights will go for a while after that. I know you said she is often not hungry, or wanting her paci etc. Perhaps what she wants most of all is just a cuddle from you in the middle of the night. i think in the situation you are in right now, it could get to a point where it's impossible to know what she really wants or needs when she wakes, because even if what she originally woke for is a bf, after holding out on her for a few hours and then offering it to her later on, she might not be emotionally ready to take it at that point, confusing the issue even further.

By taking the stress out of it all for a bit, it might reset things and try again a bit further down the line.  Having both coslept and had a full time crib baby, it has been my experience that it was far easier to wean night feeds with a cosleeping baby. Sometimes all they want is that closeness, that connectedness. It is not unreasonable for her to wake and want to nurse for a few mins in the middle of the night, because you know bf-ing is not just a method of transferring milk and calories, it is about so much more. Is it frustrating when they wake so much...yes! But it is such a brief period in their lives, it goes by in the blink of an eye. I just feel so bad that you are all under so much stress about this. It's not fair on her, it's definitely not fair on you. I think just stepping back for a while with no rules and expectations might be the best thing for now. Is it possible to sidecar the crib to your bed so you all have more space?

[becj86]

If the dummy was an 'issue', wouldn't she settle easily for it once she got it in her mouth?

This is my thinking too Anna, which is why I'm not saying 'get rid of it'. Its not a clear issue and frankly, I think there's something be it discomfort or just not having learned to sleep for that length of time. I cannot put my finger on what it is and I'm so sorry I can't be more constructive than that

[skatty]

Hi Anna, I have just read the whole thread and want to offer lots of hugs. Before weaning the dummy can you try filling the cot with them? I did this with L, we put about 10 in all with hand reach so whenever she reached a hand she would find one and showed her before she went to sleep, it worked like a dream! It did mean we had to have a cot bumper but you can get collapsable breathable ones. Vicku weaned Lois's dummy before she was ready and she really regretted it. I am a huge fan of the dummy if it is like a lovey, it was for L and I think it would have caused many more problems to remove it. If it means A will not nap at your mums or the childminders then I think this problem will just beome even worst 

From what I have read it seems she does respond really well to sleep traning when you don't have to worry about Stan but unfortunately there is not much you can do aboiut that  How does she sleep in the day? I found those long fussy NWs were due to OT and OS during the day, L would of course take a feed at the se times if it was offered but they were not the reason for the NWs.

I hope this gets better, I really feel for you all 

[anna*]

When I brought her into my bed last it wasn't after a period of PUPD - I didn't attempt any resettling at all last night. I spend 12-1am TRYING to feed her back to sleep but she wouldn't latch on and eventually I gave her a bottle. Then when she woke again at 4am I immediately brought her into my bed but she wouldn't settle at all and in the end DH got up with her (this is not a regular thing btw) because I was losing my cool. In the end he gave her anotherr 4oz bottle and she went back to sleep again.

Here is my 'thing' about co-sleeping:
• how do I stop Stan getting into our bed too when he comes into our room in the middle of the night and finds his sister there too?
• what about when she wakes up at 7.30 or 8pm (from a 6.30pm wake time)?
• how and more importantly WHEN do I get her back into her crib?
• there is no space to fit her crib next to my bed - we wouldn't be able to use our wardrobes!

Katt, she has six dummies in her cot including four attached to a stuffy toy so if she reaches out her hand and can find the bunny she can easily find a dummy.

Naps in the daytime are really variable. Sometimes good, more often bad.