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Offline Avery3

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when is enough enough?
« on: May 07, 2012, 07:03:50 am »
Im seriously over these NW's, weve only had a handful of times where DS2 has STTN. tonight hes woken 3 times and its only 7pm (he had an early bedtime due to wonky naps at daycare) we have at least 2 NW's a night, they dont usually last for long (10mins max) but lately they are coming in 20min bursts and Im just seriously wondering when is enough enough when you get to 9.5 months and have sleeptrained from birth and this is STILL happening.

To be fair, hes teething but this happens when NOTHING is wrong and when routine is fine as well.

Im having to pat him back to sleep and Im getting more and more frustrated. why is this still happening, why are we still at this stage??
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 07:33:07 am »
What does his day normally look like?

At that age often they can need a push A time wise.

Is he an independent sleeper? You say you have to pat him to sleep for NWs? What happens initially for naps and bedtime? Can you just do winddown and pop him down and he goes to sleep himself?

Didnt you just try a med wean for his reflux? How long has he been back on full dose. Between that and teething it could be reflux bothering him and he's waking in discomfort?

At this age multiple NWs are generally discomfort or A time or prop related. Which do you think is most likely?
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Offline Avery3

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 07:48:23 am »
I think it could be any of the three to be honest. his A time is 3.5 hours. hes been back on full dose of meds about three days, i didnt drop it that much at all.

naps he goes down independantly most of the time, if i miss his sleep window then I have to pat him for about 2 mins till hes calm. tonight he woke at 6.50pm and cried like he wanted me so I didnt go in for about 10mins until he started to get quite upset so I went in and patted him till he was calm and left, he started back up as I left so i waited to see what kind of cry it was. I went back in and said sleep phrase "its time for sleep sweetheart" he seemed comforted by my voice so I didnt pat and everytime he looked up at me or started to cry i would say the sleep phrase but he wouldnt actually go to sleep so I left when he was just laying there calm and he started crying again. I went back in and patted him for 4 mins and left and hes been asleep since. hes been given pain relief before bed tonight as well
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Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Shiv52

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 08:00:10 am »
Um, I think you are right it could be any one of the three.  My first thought is discomfort as although it was only a small wean it obviously caused enough of a reaction for you to put him back on full strength so it might just take a bit to get him back on track comfort wise especially if he is teething as that'll aggravate his reflux anyways.

I think you're doing a great job of listening to his cries and only patting when necessary.  I do wonder that this may be a bit of a prop and when he wakes for NWs and is in  a bit of discomfort he just can't do it himself. 

3.5 A time is ok for that age but I know lots are getting more so he may need another 10 minutes as that bedtime behaviour could be seen as UT too.  I know at that age we needed a 13 hour day to fit in two 1.5 naps and enough A time to get a restful night.  We tried less day sleep but it was a bit of a bust.  I know daycare days can be a bust but what does a normal day look like?

{{{hugs hun}}}  NWs are no fun at all. 
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Offline Avery3

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 08:15:50 am »
well when hes not at daycare he does a 1.5 hours in the AM and a short nap of 30-45mins in the afternoon (im workng on that in the naps section) so his days are generally a 11.5-12 hours long. hes def exhausted by bedtime.

daycare days he does 2x35-45min naps and sometimes I can squeeze in an extra 40min nap in the late afternoon but if i cant then its an early bedtime, like today

hes always had NW's and Ive just been grateful they werent long ones and there are some he can self settle at but Im craving some decent night sleep!
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Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline katie80

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 18:44:17 pm »
Quote from: Avery3 on May 07, 2012, 08:15:50 am
Im craving some decent night sleep!
Hmmm... I hear you on this one! ::)  I think it also sounds a bit like discomfort (that they're coming so frequently together) and maybe some SA (hence the possible prop issue).  It sounds like you're definitely doing the right thing re: just using your voice as much as possible rather than patting.  It's possible he may actually be a bit OT at bedtime with the short naps, but early bedtime is likely helping that out.  I wonder if you continue to just use the minimal amount of assistance possible, once the reflux meds have a chance to work their way out and the teeth settle down, he might start to self-settle more often. 

(((Hugs))), we're in the exact same boat with the teeth/SA/OT at bedtime and it's made for some doozies lately. :P
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Offline Avery3

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 19:00:03 pm »
well i tried something different last night, after the 5th night waking at 9.30pm I decided to feed him because he just wouldnt settle. he drank most of it and slept through till 5.10am (where we were up and down but considering he went to bed at 5.45pm the night before thats a pretty decent night!) so maybe a growth spurt? thing is he isnt taking any larger amounts during the day so I didnt think it would be that?
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Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline katie80

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 19:03:47 pm »
Could be, I guess.  Maybe try adding some during the day today and see if it helps. Wouldn't that be a nice way to solve the problem? :)
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 19:07:23 pm »
Is he maybe taking less during the day as he's in discomfort so is needing it at night?  Has his milk or solid intake dropped through the day?

I forgot to mention SA is probably a factor too. 
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Offline Avery3

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 19:22:19 pm »
hes not taking less during the day, pretty much the same as normal really. yeah i thought of SA but hes quite happy by himself during the day, hes not too demanding as of late, he can play happily by himself for about 10 mins or so and only gets really clingy at times when hes tired or hungry
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Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Shiv52

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 19:28:32 pm »
Well that was a pretty decent night you got in the end.  Do you do a longer day the day after daycare to try to get back to a decent bedtime?
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Offline Avery3

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 19:49:37 pm »
I just watch him to make sure hes handling the next day ok, I go by how he naps that day basically
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Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Shiv52

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 20:03:06 pm »
And does he normally tack on if you do EBT?

And do you count wake up from bedtime?  So like you described earlier?  If up did 5.45pm bed and he wakes at 5.15am....you get him up then and start the day?  Or do you try to resettle back to sleep?
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Offline Avery3

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 22:38:10 pm »
he doesnt normally tack on but I count from bedtime. I wouldve been happy with a 5.15am start to the day but I had to try and see if i could get him back to sleep, figuring he only had a total day sleep yesterday of 1 hour 20mins. I got him back to sleep for 15mins and then got him up for the day.
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Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Zoey

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Re: when is enough enough?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 00:01:27 am »
I think I commented on another sleep trouble thread of yours, that this sounds a lot like pain.  If he just started back on meds, it's going to take a 2-3 weeks for the damage that is causing his pain, to be healed and not hurt anymore.

:) It will pass, you may need to do some sleep training again for a nap/night or two - after the pain subsides... but if he was sleep trained before, then he should fall right back into independent sleep fairly quickly.
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