Resettling with NW

[Pannee]

Hello, I am going to try and reduce my 5 mo NW, usually around 3 times per night, roughly every 3 - 3.5 hours.  Bit too often I think since she goes 4 hours easily during the day. 

My question is this: As I try to resettle after a NW and perhaps it takes some time (hope not!) but what if we get to around 4 - 4.5 hour mark and I think she should have a feed, do I have to get her to sleep first so that she doesn't learn a bad habit?   Or maybe I am going about this the wrong way.  Is there another way to stretch out the night feeds?

EASY - for today as her wake up time varies from 6.30 to 8am, the afternoon EASY is a guess based on the last few days.
7.40am wake up
E 7.45am feed
A 8am (just under 2 hours)
S 9.40am (1.5 hrs)
E 11.10am
A 11.30am (just under 2 hours)
S 1.05pm (1.5 - 2.5 hrs)
E 3.30pm
A 3.45pm
I think I would just go for a bit of a stretch till bath at 6pm

Thanks in advance 

[katie80]

As I try to resettle after a NW and perhaps it takes some time (hope not!) but what if we get to around 4 - 4.5 hour mark and I think she should have a feed, do I have to get her to sleep first so that she doesn't learn a bad habit?   

Yes, this is correct.  Even if she only goes back to sleep for 15-20 min, the key is to actually get her to sleep first, and then feed upon the next waking.

Your EASY looks pretty spot on, although you may want to start thinking about pushing he A times just a tad, so she's going 2 hr at least and maybe a tad more in the afternoon.  Also, does she still do a catnap? With her last nap ending at 3:30ish, I'd say, she most likely needs a CN in there to get her to a decent bedtime otherwise some of those NWs are probably due to some OT as well.

[Pannee]

Thanks Katie, I am assuming that if its still a bit before 5 hours between feeds, I should be able to get her to sleep.  I have visions of a screaming hungry child at 3am! 

I just posted a message in the naps section about the cat nap as I am a tad confused about when to eat after the cat nap and how long to stay awake.  I try to do my errands in the afternoon so she usually cat naps in the car.

I am also going to look into the sample easy's for her age group, and maybe tweak our awake time to help with the NW like you suggested. 

Thanks again

[katie80]

I am a tad confused about when to eat after the cat nap and how long to stay awake.  I try to do my errands in the afternoon so she usually cat naps in the car.

At that age, our CN was 30-45 min, and I would offer half a feed upon waking and then a full feed before BT, which was about 1.5 hr later.

So, in your EASY that you posted yesterday, it would look like...
S 5:30-6 pm CN
E 6 pm
A 6-7:30 pm
E 7/7:15 pm
S 7:30/45 pm

You may want to think about setting her wake up time at 7 am, as you showed quite a range, which can be a little tricky to work with.  Things just never end up being at the same time.  Since her earliest wake is around 6:30, if you woke her at 7 that would be a 30 min window which makes the day much more predictable.  By no means do you have to do this, it's just an observation.

HTH and let us know how it goes!

[Pannee]

Hi Katie,

Thanks for your advice.  We had a horror night last night, she woke after 45 minutes and then cried for 2.5 hours.  I tried ssh/pat and the pu/pd which eventually worked.  No idea why this happened as she had a good day yesterday.  2 x 1.5 hour naps and a 45 min catnap.  Although she was awake for 2.5 hours before falling asleep, maybe that was it? 

Sorry to ramble, what I wanted to say was that despite this, she woke at 7am today after a few EW so I agree, 7am is probably her most natural wake up time and we will stick to that one. 

Is the half feed after the catnap to get her through till bedtime or to tank up for the night?  Interestingly, after her crying session ended at 11pm, she slept till 3am, going 8 hours without feed.  Just too tired after the crying or something new?  Let's see what tonight brings, yay!

Thanks again

[Pannee]

Sorry Katie, one more clarification.  You mentioned pushing A times and in particular the afternoon.  Do you mean before or after the catnap?  What new time would you suggest?  We are bang on 2 hours at the moment, 2.15 perhaps?

Thanks!

[katie80]

We had a horror night last night, she woke after 45 minutes and then cried for 2.5 hours.  I tried ssh/pat and the pu/pd which eventually worked.  No idea why this happened as she had a good day yesterday.  2 x 1.5 hour naps and a 45 min catnap.  Although she was awake for 2.5 hours before falling asleep, maybe that was it? 

Yes, a 45 min wake after BT is almost always OT.  I think it probably was the 2.5 hr A time to bed that did it.  At that age I usually did 1.5-2 hr max after a CN.

Sorry to ramble, what I wanted to say was that despite this, she woke at 7am today after a few EW so I agree, 7am is probably her most natural wake up time and we will stick to that one.   

Not rambling, I think that's a good idea.

Is the half feed after the catnap to get her through till bedtime or to tank up for the night? 

I used it more to tank up for the night.  At that age my DS was on a routine much like yours, pretty much 3.5 hr EASY and often couldn't make it all the way to the BT feed, so I offered a partial feed after the CN.  As he started to get hungrier toward 6 mo, he took almost a full feed at both times and this is when I knew I needed to start solids.

Interestingly, after her crying session ended at 11pm, she slept till 3am, going 8 hours without feed.  Just too tired after the crying or something new? 

A silver lining, I guess.  I hope tonight goes as well, but without the initial crying.

You mentioned pushing A times and in particular the afternoon.  Do you mean before or after the catnap?  What new time would you suggest?  We are bang on 2 hours at the moment, 2.15 perhaps?

If 2 hrs is getting you good naps, you really don't need to do any pushing just yet.  The reason I suggested that earlier is I wasn't sure if she was getting a CN or not.  Once one of her naps starts to not be full (i.e. less than 1.5 hr), you'll want to think about stretching to 2.15, yes.  But, after the CN, always stick to the A you're at or a little less.  Since it's not a full nap, they usually can't make it as long.  HTH!

Keep me posted.

[Pannee]

Hi Katie,

We had 45 minutes of crying before going to bed last night, with a catnap and only 1.5 hour till bedtime.  So BT was 7.45pm instead of 7pm and she then woke at 10pm.  I resettled her and she slept till 12am, we fed and then slept till 6am.  I started pushing her to 2.15 hours awake yesterday so maybe that contributed to OT by bedtime? 

Usually I can get her to nap for 1.5 hours by easing her through the 45 min cycle, but yesterday she started waking 30 mins into the second 45 min nap.  So like you said, it might be time for a longer awake time. 

I just put her down for a nap 2.15hrs after waking and she went down without a peep.  Still cried when I put her sleeping bag on, but this time I held her and calmed her in my arms.  I did read in BW that you hold them for 5 mins and ssh/pat till calm and then put down.  But since she always wriggles and cries I usually put her straight down.  Today I persevered and she must have been almost asleep when I put her down.  Who knew?!  Lovely!

Thanks again for your help, it has made a world of difference!   

[katie80]

I started pushing her to 2.15 hours awake yesterday so maybe that contributed to OT by bedtime? 

It could be, and actually when you mentioned waking at 30 min into the nap instead, that's more likely an OT waking where as 45 min is considered UT (usually).  I'd try to only increase one A time at a time if you think she needs it.  Maybe leave the morning at 2 hr if she naps well then and just increase the afternoon ones for now, or just leave them and concentrate on your nights as long as you're able to keep resettling her and getting 1.5 hr naps. 

Sounds like she's doing really well at extending the NFs, though, well done!

[Pannee]

Hi Katie,

Thanks for your advice and support, I have been focusing on cutting out the ssh/pat as I was doing it till she was asleep and only half doing it didn't cut it, so now we do the pu/pd till we can roll over and go to sleep.  I'll keep an eye on the naps and awake times to see how they are affected by this and I'm sure I will be back with a new post soon enough!

Thanks again

[katie80]

Good luck!