Desperate for sleep. 7 months and nw's every 1.5 :(

[timmysmommy]

Katie- I think she needs naps capped as our day gets too long.  But with such crummy nights, I hate to wake her up if ykwim!  She had a very short night last night.  I'm hoping for a longer night tonight, then cap the nap at 1.5.  I think 3.5 hrs to bed is prob about right.  I often try at 3, she won't go, so I get her back up, then by the time I get her back down it's been 4 and prob a bit too long.

So I've been experimenting to see what the deal is with her high pitched screaming- sounds like pain to me.   It's when she's laying in her bed.  I've picked her up and brought her to my bed.  She stops screaming.  If it really was pain, I would think she would scream while laying down anywhere.  Maybe that is just a very sound.

A tooth did come through earlier in the week, but there could be more.  Meds don't make a difference right now.  I'm thinking her newfound physical skills could be hindering her sleep.  Last Monday she pulled up, then started cruising, same day.  Tonight she pulled herself up in her crib, so I am expecting her to start waking standing!  How should I tackle it?

When she wakes I do have to replug and most of the time that works.  The last few days I've been feeding around 5 since it helps her to sleep longer in the morning- and we both need every scrap of sleep we can get.

I don't think she would go down without her paci.  I used to be able to feed her to sleep, but anymore she'll wake when she realizes she doesn't have it.

[katie80]

I think she needs naps capped as our day gets too long.  But with such crummy nights, I hate to wake her up if ykwim! 

I do kwym, but it can turn into a vicious cycle at the same time... too much day sleep to catch up from bad night, not enough drive to sleep at night, etc, etc.  I would definitely try the 3.5 hr A to bed and see if that doesn't help get a better night and then right away start taking away a bit of day sleep, maybe 15 min from one nap for a few days and then 15 min from the other and so on, til you get them both to be about 1.5 hr. You could do 15 min from both if you think she can handle it, but if her nights aren't great, I'd go one at a time.

A tooth did come through earlier in the week, but there could be more.  Meds don't make a difference right now.  I'm thinking her newfound physical skills could be hindering her sleep.  Last Monday she pulled up, then started cruising, same day.  Tonight she pulled herself up in her crib, so I am expecting her to start waking standing!  How should I tackle it?

Wow, lots of developmental stuff bang, bang, bang, huh? You'll just have to start doing PD to help her settle if needed.  Lots of practice during the day, sliding her hands down the crib slats to teach her.  Pulling up to standing is my least favorite milestone for sleep disruption for sure!

I don't think she would go down without her paci.  I used to be able to feed her to sleep, but anymore she'll wake when she realizes she doesn't have it.

This makes it sound like it's really a prop that needs some work.  I don't think I'd take it away at this age, too much other stuff going on, but I do think you need to teach her to replug herself. She's old enough and it would save you a lot of replugging.

There's a lot going on with her, really, which I think is common for this age.  Start by just choosing one thing at a time to work on.  Well, you won't really have a choice if you want to work on the standing bit , but I'd work on the daytime sleep before the paci and just keep doing the replugging game during the day.  Maybe she'll figure it out on her own.

[timmysmommy]

Thanks Katie.  Yoy're right on as usual.  I forgot to mention in the last post that I think she and ds had a slight tummy bug reflected in yucky poo.  Is it any wonder she's not sleeping?

Thanks for the reminder on cutting the naps back slowly.  I really struggle with doing things gradually!  Today I got her down a bit late for her first nap, so hated to cut it short, but did cut the second nap to 1.5.  I thought perhaps she would do an early Bt since she had a shorter nap.  It was a very dumb idea, as she cried for 1.5 hrs.  Ugh.  I had to do Bt on my own tonight as dh had to work. Poor ds kept waking dd back up and she was struggling as it was.  Life certainly gets in the way of things doesn't it!

I'll try to cut the naps back 15 min tomorrow.  As long as she isn't ot when I put her down, I don't mind cutting the nap.

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), Amy. Your two definitely don't make things easy for you, do they?

I keep forgetting to say how much I like them in your new avatar, though. They sure are cute and a true Americana pair.

[timmysmommy]

Thanks Katie!  That was Memorial day 

Well, she slept last night.   Woke at 11 and 4 and I fed at both.  She was super tired this morning and I put her down after 2 hrs, and woke her after 1.5 hr. 

But then she fell asleep in the car while we were out after only 2 hr A time, and took a 40 min nap.  I'm trying to get her down again, but she is not going easily. 

These two kiddos definately keep me on my toes!  DS is low sleep needs and most days doesn't nap.

[katie80]

Yay for the great night!! Sounds like she was playing catchup today. The whole 'sleep begets sleep' thing. Hope the day ended up ok.

[timmysmommy]

Yesterday Ended with 2 40 min naps and a fight at bedtime.  She finally fell asleep at 9:30.  Woke at 12, and 4.  I fed at both.  Then EW @ 6:30 today.

She was tired today- big surprise.

So wake @ 6:30
A 2.5 hrs
S 9:00
A Woke her at 10:30
A for 2.5
S @ 1:00
A woke at 3
A for 3.5 hrs
Bt at 6:30
And then she woke at 7:10 and would not go back to sllep with a feed or hold to sleep.  So who knows when she'll go back down. . She never sleeps past 7:30 in the AM so she will certainly have another short night.

Argh!!   What am I don't wrong?

[becj86]

I wouldn't be capping both naps - let her sleep as long as she wants for one if you can - I go with the morning one so I can decide when to cap the afternoon one. The 7:10 waking is probably OT.

Hugs xx

[timmysmommy]

Thanks Bec.  I agree OT.  She finally went back down at 10.  Woke at 1, 3, 5, up from 6-7, slept from 7-7:40. 

So I'm just going to let her sleep as much as she wants today?  She doesn't do early bt.  She wakes after 40 min like she did last night.  She doesn't sleep past 7:30 am though.  Perhaps I can shoot for a 7:30 bt and hope for a 12 hr night?

[becj86]

I'd let her sleep as much as she likes at least for the morning nap. If that shifts the PM nap and you have to wake her at 4:30/5 to protect BT, do that, yk? I'd aim for 7/7:30 BT if that's what works best for her. xx

[timmysmommy]

Thanks Bec.  I've just been letting her whenever and as often as she'd like and our nights have been decent.  Both my kids are sick right now with what they are calling the summer flu, so I'll check back once she is well.  Capping the pm nap to preserve Bt makes sense and we'll try if we need to once she is well.

[katie80]

Oh Amy, you guys just can't catch a break with illness lately. (((Hugs)))!  Sounds like you've got a good plan for when you get her healthy again.

[timmysmommy]

Just a quick update.  She is starting to recover from her most recent cold, but appears to be teething.  She's had an A time jump during her illness.  We actually had a few decent nights, one night she only woke once and now she is waking again.  I had dropped all night feeds, but i am started to feed again in hopes she would sleep longer.  I am quite sure I need to cut her naps, but don't want to!  This week I've just been following her cues, and her A times were at about 3.5 with 2 hr naps, a few shorter ones thrown in here and there.  14 hr days.  So I think trim the naps, and shoot for a 13 hr day.  She was up a lot last night, 11:00 1:00, 2:00 with an hour long nw from 4-5.

Today she has been tired and cranky.  Went down for first nap after 3 hrs, slept for 1.5.  Woke up cranky.  Went down for second nap after only 2.5 hrs!  So I'm expecting a short nap.  Of course we have all kinds of stuff going on this weekend which means early bedtimes are out of the question.  I think I'm try on Sunday to trim her second nap.  How much should I be cutting a nap, and for how long?  For example trim 15 min for 3 days, then trim more?  Not sure how to go about this without getting into OT cycle.  I'm not good at this gradual stuff! 

Thanks for your help!  I can't believe we are still having 3+ wake ups a night.  Ridiculous.  DS was sleeping through the night by now.

[katie80]

Hi Amy, I've found STTN much more elusive with #2. It's hard to not mess up the routine when #1 needs to get out and have some activities. And, I'm much more prone to AP in the MOTN, because I know I have two kids to take care of the next day. So, just know you're not alone. C STTN way sooner and more predictably than G ever has.

I do think your day is getting too long. Following Bec's plan from earlier (which is really smart), I'd let her sleep up to 2 hr in the morning and then cap the pm nap where needed to preserve BT.

So, it might look something like this...
W 7 am
S 10:30-12:30 pm
S 4-5 pm
BT 8 pm

Or, you could cut the second nap to 45 min and do BT at 7:30 pm. What do you think about that? Is she getting any teeth atm or doing anything new developmentally that might be adding to the NWs?

[timmysmommy]

Thanks Katie.  I just don't know how much longer I can handle these nw's.  I'm beyond exhausted and frustrated.  She had another tough night last night of 3+ nw's plus was awake for about an hour again from 3:30-4:30, plus EW. During the week I don't leave the house until after her first nap, and try to only stay out 1.5 hrs so I'm home for her second nap.  Weekends tend to screw that all up though.
We had a very active and long day yesterday. 

I like the plan you laid out and will give it a try tomorrow.  Her mouth has been bugging her a bit.  She started waving last week.  She is still cruising, and trying to stand and walk alone, and climbs the stairs when she gets a chance.

I got my hopes up on the two nights where she woke only one or two times.  I was hoping I was through all this.

Thank you for listening.  I surely would have lost it by now if not for your support!