Now 14 weeks and starting multiple NWs

[Rizzo]

Ok, had a thread going in naps as my DS is a catnapper, and has been since he was about 7 weeks. I could cope with that as he slept ok at night (woke 2ish and 5ish)

For the past week, things have been getting worse and worse, to the point Of him waking at 7.15 (BT 6.45), 9.30, 12.15am, 3.30 and 4.50am, then slept till 7.50am.
I fed him at 9.30, 12.15 and 4.50am. For the past week I was putting him down between 5.30 and 6.30pm in an attempt to catch up on sleep and prevent OT, but it's not helping.

Tonight, it took 45mins to get him to sleep and he woke 1hr later. The last A time he spent sucking his thumb the whole time and was not interacting at all. I feel so sorry for him, plus it's making me more stressed and angry, and am not able to spend much time with DS1(2 yr old).

I did try and stretch the first A time out, but he really struggled and I think someone suggested maybe treating the first A time as a NW, as he is sometimes tired within 30mins

I am sure the NWs are OT related, but I want some advice as to how to stop them occurring. I am slowly going insane...

Thanks in advance

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), I know it's no fun to have an OT NWing baby. Can you post your routine for us to have a look at? We'll see if we can't minimize some of the OT and get a handle on the wakings. Remember, there are other factors at play here as well, he could be having a growth spurt, etc. Remind me how he is fed, BF or FF?

[Rizzo]

Thanks for the reply. OK, so he is BF. I try and stretch him to 3 hrs between feeds, but its really difficult when he is having 40 min naps during the day...
He doesnt have a dummy, he is wrapped, but once today he fell asleep with one hand out sucking on his thumb.
Our EASY for the day prior to the NW's was:

Awake 6.30am ish cooing.
E 6.50am
S 7.45 - 9am (A 55min)
Tried to resettle, asleep a little bit, woke 9.45am unable to resettle.
E 9.50am
S 11.10 - 11.50am (A 2 hrs - not really showing tired signs)
resettled 12.10, woke 1.10pm
E 1.15pm
S 2.30-3.35pm (A 1 hr 15m)
E 3.30pm
S 5- 5.10pm (put him to bed at 4.30, took ages to settle, and only slept for 10mins, couldnt resettle him)
E 5.30pm
BT 6.20pm, asleep 6.45pm
Woke 7.15pm, cooed, went back to sleep. Woke 9.30pm - stayed awake for ages, decided to feed him after 30mins...
Woke 12.30am (fed), woke 3am (put himself back to sleep), 5am (fed)

Today's EASY so far
3.15am - woke, fed
Woke 6.15ish cooing
E 6.30am
S 7.35 - 9.15 (woke 8.15, resettled himself).
Sounded tired when woke, resettled on me from 9.30-9.50am
E 10am
S 11.10-12.15pm (woke 10mins later, had to resettle, asleep 11.35 - 12.15pm)
E 12.45pm
S 1.45-2.40pm (woke 2.15, resettled himself)
Sounded tired, resettled on me, slept 3.05-3.15pm
E 3.30pm
S 4.25-5.15pm
E 5.45pm
Tried to put to bed at 6.10pm. He took ages to settle in bed. I tried, couldnt. BF again at 7.30pm.... then was happy to go to sleep. I was hoping A time was going to be 1hr-1hr 15m, but instead it was almost 2 hours....
Woke 8.45pm and waiting for him to resettle...

It seems like he is so tired now he cant stay asleep properly. I am also really unsure how long to keep him up before BT to prevent him having OT wakeups.

Any advice would be appreciated!!

[katie80]

I think he definitely needs an A time push. Average for his age is 1hr 20 - 1 hr 30. When he does 1hr 20 or less he wakes early and you have a hard time resettling or does a shorter nap, i.e. 1 hr 15 min. When he does 1 hr 30 min or more, he either resettles himself, or after you resettle he sleeps much longer. Short naps are often quite developmental at this age, but he seems to be doing pretty well at resettling, so an A time push might get him to where he needs to be.

I think the night with all the wakes he was probably OT, as the last nap he'd had was that short 10 min one. And on today's EASY, I think the same ended up happening because it took so long to settle (which I dont really see a reason for tbh, do you think he might have been uncomfortable at all... gas, wind?) It sounds like you've got the right idea for A time to bed, though. If the last nap is a CN, I'd go for an A of 1 hr - 1 hr 15 min. If it's a full nap, then do the full 1 hr 30 min A time. HTH! 

How did last night end up?

[Rizzo]

He hasnt really done any nap longer than 1 hr for ages now... were you reading my A times as nap times? Unless you mean total time from when he sleeps, including the time it takes me to resettle him? He rarely resettles himself after a 40min or 1 hr sleep.
Today, I have left his hand out of his swaddle so he can suck his thumb. He settled really well (only slept for 40mins), but also settled well at BT (had a 2hr A time... was out and about in the afternoon..)

I think whats confusing me is when his awake time is for the morning. He used to wake about 7.15am and go to bed at 7ish, but since I have been putting him to bed earlier to try and fix the OT issue, I think he has been waking up at 6.15am. He is not always happy when he wakes, and usually gets really tired quickly. So what do I do? Do I just start pushing the first A time out, assuming its 6.15am? Then do I leave the others the same? What happens if he only has a 40min nap?

Last night he woke an hour later and resettled on his own, then at 11.30pm, 3.15am and 6.15am. He was really grumpy at 6.15am, so I fed him and put him back to bed. He woke at 7.50am in a better mood, but it didnt last long...

He spent most of his awake times sucking his thumb... I assume that is not normal for a happy baby?

[katie80]

Last night he woke an hour later and resettled on his own, then at 11.30pm, 3.15am and 6.15am. He was really grumpy at 6.15am, so I fed him and put him back to bed. He woke at 7.50am in a better mood, but it didnt last long...

So, that's really not that bad of a night for his age, IMO. The waking 1 hr later was likely OT, but he self-settled, which is great. And then, you have basically 2 NFs, as I'd consider the 6:15 feed a morning feed, although its fine that he went back to sleep as that gave him about a 12 hr night.

He hasnt really done any nap longer than 1 hr for ages now... were you reading my A times as nap times? Unless you mean total time from when he sleeps, including the time it takes me to resettle him?

Well, it looked to me like both morning naps were longer, the first being from 7:45-9 am and the second day it was 7:35-9:15 am.

So what do I do? Do I just start pushing the first A time out, assuming its 6.15am? Then do I leave the others the same? What happens if he only has a 40min nap?

Yes, if he's had close to 12 hr, I'd just get him up and start the day. It seems like you're pretty close to the right A time on the first nap, as they've been the best. I'd try pushing it to about 1 hr 30, if you can. The other A times should be about the same as well. If you get a 40 min nap, I'd try hard to resettle. If you can't, then reduce the next A time to around 1.10 or 1.15 and keep going. Remember, short naps are still somewhat developmental at his age, but it's always easier to resettle when they're properly tired.

As for all the thumb-sucking, I'd go ahead and keep leaving that one arm out. It sounds like he's doing a great job of self-soothing there, which should help the naps and NWs in the long run. During all the A times, do you think he's uncomfortable at all or is it a newfound skill that he's just practicing?

[Rizzo]

Thanks Katie. To answer your question, not as much thumb sucking in A time today, but also not alot to resettle during naps either..
Had an absolute shocker BT and first NW last night.. His day
Wasn't too bad, the last nap was almost an hour till 5.30. I should have put him down later, but ended up trying till 8pm. Then he woke an hour later and was awake for over 30mins. Usual NW after that 12.30, 5.30)

Today was catch up I think. He still did a 40 nap first (A 1hr 15m), then 30mins (we were out). His A time was then 1.5 hrs and he did a 3hr nap... He had a CN 30mins waking at 5.40, before going to sleep just over an hr later. E woke an hr later but resettled within 10mins

I'll keep trying to push the 1hr 30 min, but not really sure about the time before BT. Bit random at the moment !! 

[katie80]

I'll keep trying to push the 1hr 30 min, but not really sure about the time before BT. Bit random at the moment !! 

Yes, A to BT can be a bit of trial and error sometimes, esp when the days aren't all the same.  Keep working on the 1:30 A time and post a few more EASYs if you'd like me to take a look at that last A (not that I'll be able to see anything, necessarily, but sometimes two heads are better than one .

And, what a catchup nap. Wow!!

[Rizzo]

Thanks Katie

Well, BT was 6.45, he woke an hour later but sucked thumb to sleep. He then didn't (audibly) wake till 4am.... He hasn't slept that long since he was 6 weeks old!!
Still couldn't stretch him to 1.5hrs this morning, this time getting a 30 min nap. Can't imagine he was overtired.. His A time was 1hr 20 again.

I will see how the next few days go...

[katie80]

Sounds like a great night!

Keep trying to stretch him.  I don't think he was probably OT yesterday morning either, but maybe he's getting a bit OS before naps.  I notice he's got a big brother.   What is your wind-down like?

BTW, your avatar makes me smile every time I see it.  I think your boys will grow up to be great friends.

[Rizzo]

I know.  Often think that's the reason he has short naps sometimes and shorter A times.. Bit hard not to be overstim'ed!!
Wind down is quite short. His A time at the end, I usually have him in the bouncer to stretch him when he is tired, then pick him up and carry him. He usually is cranky then. I go upstairs, put white noise and his music on, and close curtains. Then lie him on floor and chat for a short time before putting him in his grobag. I pick him up and have a few short minutes with him in my arms before bed. If he is really upset, i usually put him in sleepy
Total wind down upstairs is 5 mins, 10 if putting him in sleepy

Thanks re the photo. They get on surprisingly well. Think Nathan is a bit more attention seeking and tantrum throwing now, but could be an age thing too...

[katie80]

Sounds like a good wind-down in terms of getting him away from the action and you've got a good thing in putting him in the bouncer.  I'd maybe just try to lengthen the wind-down by as much as DS1 will let you and see if you can't stretch him to the 1 hr 30 min.  But, otherwise yes, I'm not sure there's much more you can do about OS with another LO around. 

Keep me posted!