Support for dropping the nap-part 6

[Truly Blessed]

Also, I meant to ask, Vicki in particular but anyone who can answer, when you talk about APOP at BT, what do you actually do? I don't really have any APOP to do at BT with Cadan.

Hi Ladies, Ali WRT this ^ I just rub his back for a minute then I just leave it there for another minute or two then remove it and sit with him briefly (this recently backfire tough when staying went from 5 mins to 50 mins) so I am really aware of any BT APOP to be honest, for Toddlers anyway, because although it can work when they're tired enough, the little monkeys will milk it for all they're worth if any UT is at play so it backfires  .

I seem to always have to APOP BT on nap days. Every night I rock him while he drinks his bottle. Yes I know bad to still have a bottle. Anyway when he finishes he hands me the bottle then we rock for a min and he goes to bed and sleeps on his own.

Two things Mama C, I'm thinking this ^ is the no nap days yes  it sounds like lovely close special time to me, don't let what's going on right now take away from that if it is okay with both of you  enjoy it.

Also, I forget now how old Sam was when he gave up his bottle but it was a lot later than advised. Every so often I would try him with a sippy instead (in the morning) and the first 3 times he was very upset so I gave him the bottle back, then  one day on the fourth attempt he just handed it over and took his shiny new cup without a tear and never looked back. He will do it when he is ready  like with everything else.

"Nobody wants to sleep with me mummy"   and then he asked me to sleep with him. I said we all sleep in our own beds and there wasn't room me in his bed and he shuffled right over and said "There's some more space there". Oh it was so sad. I told him I wished I could sleep in there with him and we just snuggled while I kissed his cheek and stroked his hair. Then after a bit I said it was sleepy time and he settled down happy as larry as if he accepted it was how it should be. Bless his cotton socks. 

Ah be still my heart, bless you both, he sounds adorable  It sounds to me like you hit just the right balance there Ali, well done you 

I'm off to collect Sam from my Mam's now so gotta go. Yesterday was his 3rd no nap day which he handled beautifully and went down at 6.30 after a 12 hour day. Not sure what time WU was yet..back later.

x.

[Truly Blessed]

Confusedmammy (what is your name Hun? if you don't mind me asking) I am so so sorry, I just read this, bless you Sweetheart. I have to go and pick Sam up but I will be back later to see if we can't figure out a plan.

(BIG HUG)

Vicki.x.

[confusedmummy]

Hi Vicki, my name is Hazel. I've calmed down now, I was so tired and wound up this morning, and whilst I still don't think DP should have gone in and played, I know circumstances of previous day couldn't be helped. I just feel sorry for Charlie as he relies on us to help him and now he is suffering. He has been really grumpy and tired this morning, and tearful, so at 9.15 I have put him down for a sleep. He didn't want to go, but as so tired he didn't resist as much as he would have normally and 5mins later he is asleep. I am going to let him sleep as long as he wants, then adjust BT accordingly. If he does an hour or less BT will be around 6ish any longer and I will go for 7 BT but as it will still be a long pm A time I won't go later than 7 if it takes him longer to go to sleep then at least I've tried. I just really hope I can get the WU later.

Thank you everyone for support x

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hazel, I think your plan today is excellent and exactly what I would have done/do. I'm so glad that he has gone down for a nap.

As it happens, both of our LO's are napping right now. Sam had 2 NW and a 5.40 WU so and 11 hour night after a no nap day, his 3rd no nap day, so now I know once again he is not ready. My plan was allow him to nap himself as and when but it seems that isn't going to happen, he is also exhausted this morning and definitely not his usual cheery self. I am torn between letting him sleep as long as he wants or capping at 45 mins/an hour in order to preserve BT. He is in the car, on the drive way sleeping, he fell asleep on the way home from Mam's 4 hours after WU.

Any advice on what you would do and BT would be much appreciated Ladies.

I have never been so torn Hazel, I'm sure you know exactly what I mean, except with Charlie's nursery situation your hand is being forced too.

Sometimes I wonder if Sam is even in the 1-0 or whether I should be following Claire's lead with Oliver and doing uncapped naps with set later BT. I feel clueless and change my mind on a daily basis. Fed up.

Hope together we can come up with a plan for both of our LO's moving forward

[Truly Blessed]

Okay, so the length of the nap decision has been taken our of my hands. I saw Sam coming out of the first sleep cycle so I gently woke him. He cried and clinged to me with his head on my shoulder as I took him in the house, then I sat down on the sofa to cuddle him in at which point he was straight back to sleep. Ten minutes later I have put him down on the sofa snuggled in a blanket and he stirred and went straight back to sleep. There is no way I can wake him, he is going to have to nap until he's done and have a bed time that suits.

At least he was asleep after 4 hours A time. If he has a 2 hour plus nap (OMG) and wakes by midday, what on earth time should I do BT  I wonder if 7 hours A time will be enough or 7.5 

x.

[*Ali*]

Vicki, seeing as he has a lit of catching up to do from last night I would go for a 7pm BT.
Hazel, since the nap was so early I would let him sleep and do a 7pm BT as well.
Cadan actually slept 12.5hrs last night and was up 7.35am which is great. No nap today and a 7pm BT I think.

[confusedmummy]

Hi Vicki, thank you so much. Its so hard to say what time they will be ready for bed. Charlie too woke himself at 10.35 after an hour and 10 mins but he was so much happier. I think I'm going to just watch him and see. I would like to still have him in bed at 6.30 which would still be 8hr A time, or if I can do earlier then great. We are going out now and will be out most of day so hopefully wear him out.

I really hope you Sam gets a good sleep, and BT goes smoothly x

[confusedmummy]

Sorry Ali, dont know how I missed your post earlier but thank you for advice. We have been pretty much on the go (park swimming etc) since 11.30 this morning and I started his WD at about 5.20 with the aim of a 6.30 BT as he was starting to flake a bit. It's 6.25 and I have just left his room, he's not asleep yet but I'm hoping it won't be too long. Getting him into bed wasn't as painful as usual, but I do suspect that is because DP was not here to liven things up, but I think also because he was tired.

I don't think I'm going to get a 12 hr night like I used too, so I imagine his WU will remain as it has been for a few days, at about 5/530 (I really hope not earlier) but at least he will have had 12 hrs total sleep, whereas he's been averaging about 9/10 on no nap days.

I am keeping my fingers and any other part of me I can crossed that we have a good night, and this helps get him out of OT spiral x

He was quiet, yawning,and rubbing his eyes 5 mins ago, now he's shouting out to himself, I think he'll be awake till at least 7  :-( x

[*Ali*]

Oh poo Hazel .I hope he sleeps for you soon.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Ladies,

What happened Hazel, what time did he go over 

Ali, good night for Caden, thank goodness one of these little monkeys did well last night.

A bit of back ground for today: He napped 2 hours 30 mins..OMG! and I actually had to wake him. This pm we were with friends and he was up and down with melt downs galore. He has a heavy cold with a bad chest cough and his finger is constantly in his mouth with the 3 molars cutting, no wonder he's tired bless him.

So tonight my most recent plan was a lot tougher than the 1st night (2nd night, last night Sam was at my Mam's and APU he went to sleep like a dream in no time for her  . We followed our new WD routine to the letter. Then I kissed him goodnight and left. He came straight to the gate and I did WI/WO with putting him back into bed and said "sleep time" then I decided to have a shower next door as sometimes if he knows I'm not available it will help. As soon as I got in he came to the gate and started his protest cry which quickly escalated and then I heard a huge thud just as I was getting out as fast I could, he had thrown himself over the baby gate  . I had to make a quick assessment of whether he was hurt and he didn't seem to be and he didn't say he was, so I gave him a quick cuddle and a kiss and put him back into bed and left. That was tough. Then he said he had hurt his hand and needed George Pig (his cold compress) so I rubbed it and kissed it better and said "Sleep time" and WO again. At the risk of this getting incredibly boring  this continued for 30 minutes. He needed a poo/hurt his hand/finger/head/Mammy I need you/Mammy I want to tell you something  . Not saying anything seemed harsh to me so I decided to keep saying "Sleeptime" and give him a little kiss when I tucked him back in. I had to pick him up off the floor thrashing toward the end, it was like an episode of 'Super Nanny' I have seen it done many times. We started at 7.10 and at 7.45 he stopped opening the door, and that was that.

This was so hard and quite heartbreaking but I know from my MI it was a sheer battle of wills. Just like the PD training I did when he was 10 months old. I really hope you think I did the right thing tonight    It was incredibly hard after he fell not to turn the light on and look at his hand, get he cold compress, and I almost did, BUT if I had there is every chance that when Sam didn't want to go to sleep tomorrow and the next night that he would throw himself over the gate again and use it as a decoy and he could really hurt himself, my MI said tonight he hadn't, please God I'm right. With Sam he only responds to strength. I need him to learn that BT is BT and that is the end of it. I hope tonight that I broke the back of the problem. DH is at work tonight and tomorrow night and I actually find it easier to deal with this on my own. Hopefully by night 3 Sam won't sound so heart broken and DH will be able to stick to the plan with me, because he tends to crumble with sympathy or lose patience and get stern, and any action off track would cost us big time.

Sorry this is a bit War and Peace, but I needed to off load and I do value your support.

Actually I always feel a load off when I have a plan to stick to, rather than wondering what every night will be.

Vicki.x.

[confusedmummy]

Vicki, I'm sorry you had a bad BT experience, I would have done exactly the same as you, and I probably would have felt guilty, but I do believe sticking to guns when you know they are not genuinely hurt or upset is the best in the long run. I have slacked from that a bit and DP doesn't stick to it at all so poor Charlie is getting mixed messages.

I will be going back to making sure he understands when I say BT I mean it and I will not be walking in and out tucking him and his teddies in all night long.

Charlie finally fell asleep at 7pm in the end, it could have been worse but I know he will wake at 5/5.30 if not earlier (I really hope not) so he will only only get 11/11.5 hrs total sleep (inc nap) but if so its still better than he has been having.

I will keep everything crossed for Sam having a good night and a better BT tomorrow.  Isn't it just soul destroying when they have one or two good nights then it all goes pear shaped again x

[Truly Blessed]

Thank you so much Hazel. I'm sitting here terrified his hand is broken  although I'm sure he wouldn't have gone to sleep if it was  .

I hope Charlie has at least 11.5 hours in total. Sam is actually pretty good on that much sleep, but only if it's consistent YK. It really is soul destroying when you hope you're on a roll and you're not.

I think DH and I are finally on the same page, for now. He has actually been really easy going since Sam was born and we haven't clashed until lately, because he has left it to me, knowing how seriously I take it, but when we have clashed recently it's added so much to the stress.  I hope that you can sit down with DP and get him on side because it is so hard if not, and Charlie will know for sure that he can play you off against each other  Toddlers are very intuitive.

Finger's X'd for tonight.

x.

[*Ali*]

Well done ladies. Sounds like you did what was best in the long run. hazel, I hope Charlie sleeps later than you anticipate. Vicki, I'm sure if he were seriously hurt he would have let you know all about it.

[Mama_Mia]

Two things Mama C, I'm thinking this ^ is the no nap days yes   it sounds like lovely close special time to me, don't let what's going on right now take away from that if it is okay with both of you   enjoy it.

Yes it's only that easy on no nap days. But even nap days arent too much different, just have to stay longer. I LOVE that time with him tho. I am so busy during the day that I feel without that time together he would suffer major SA.

Also, I forget now how old Sam was when he gave up his bottle but it was a lot later than advised. Every so often I would try him with a sippy instead (in the morning) and the first 3 times he was very upset so I gave him the bottle back, then  one day on the fourth attempt he just handed it over and took his shiny new cup without a tear and never looked back. He will do it when he is ready   like with everything else.

M hasn't taken a sippy since about 14 months old. He will only drink from a regular cup now. I just dread taking the bottle away for nap and BT as I know it will be a lot harder to get him to relax enough to sleep without it. Right now my plan is to wait until he hits 2 then try a cup in his room at BT. But I am a softie, so will have to wait and see what happens.

I'm sitting here terrified his hand is broken  although I'm sure he wouldn't have gone to sleep if it was  .

I'm sure you did the right thing and I dont want to make you feel any different but from past experience with two of my other children, I dont think I could have eased my own mind about his hand without seeing it. But like I said, I'm a softie and also a bit of a worry wart.

Finger's X'd for good nights all around.

[confusedmummy]

We have had just one NW, so better, and a WU of................ 6.05 so much better than I was expecting, giving him 12 hrs total sleep, yay. He seems so much happier this morning. He even played for 30 mins on own before calling someone in. It may have lasted longer but DP went to go downstairs and Charlie was stood at his bedroom door, so he then, as I expected from yesterday, wanted him to go in and play in his room. I'm not so stressed about it this morning, although I do want to get him out of it, as it was only 10mins before his sun comes up.

The thing is I'm not sure what to do for today? I don't think all his OT is gone, but he is def better rested. He has two more days at home before 3 def no nap days so i really want to nap on Sunday but today I'm not sure, any advice or suggestions? I could do a shorter 45min early nap after 5hr A time so i can still try for a reasonable BT of 6.30/7 or another 1hr nap but i suspect that may make BT nearly 8pm, or no nap and a BT of 6/6.30? So hard to know what to do for the best.

I really hope all of you have had better nights too, and Vicki I'm sure Sams hand is fine, they are so much tougher than we think x