Think I'm creating a monster!

[Kirsten~]

Ok, maybe a slight exaggeration, but I think I have created 2 very bad habits, and I need help sorting this out. LO is 9 weeks old and BF. A few weeks ago, I moved up her bedtime without a DF (she wouldn't take it initially), and those nights she slept from 8:30 or 9 till between 2 and 3am. Then I was able to implement the DF with the bottle of EBM, and for 2 nights it worked great (no wake up until 4 or 5). Then all of a sudden she started waking back up around 2am. I tried to resettle her, but have never been successful with this at night. I generally end up in and out of bed every 15-20 mins until I give up and feed her. I posted here at the time, and some folks suggested a GS, so I went with it. But now it's been 2 weeks and no change. I've tried nights where I cut out the DF, and those nights she'll wake anywhere from midnight to 2am. With a DF, she's still only making it till 2.
So here's where my screw-ups may come in:
1. She goes to sleep every night in her bassinet, but ends up in our bed after her NW usually. Mostly because she is very hard to resettle in the middle of the night. She squirms and makes a lot of noise, and in our exhaustion, we just bring her to bed where she usually sleeps great on the Boppy pillow. I need to break this habit, I know, but how??? I'm back at work, so I can't really afford to be up for 3 hours in the middle of the night each night. Anyone else have to solve this problem...need some success stories and help here.

2. Most nights when she wakes up she does not cry. I hear her moving around and waking up, and that's when I go to her. Part of the reason I do this is because if she is squirming in her sleep from gas, she will literally do that for hours and never pass any gas until I am nursing her or she is bed with us. It's like she can't relax to pass gas. So when she wakes up at 2-ish, should I just leave her until she cries? Or try to give her a paci (she's starting to reject those lately though)? Or pick her up and see if she is rooting at all??

I'm so confused!!

[katie80]

Hi Kirsten,
First things first, you haven't screwed anything up. She's quite young still and barring any underlying issues like reflux, etc, it should be pretty easy to get her back on track. I know it doesn't sound like fun, but it's much easier (and will take less time) to start to resettle her now than when she gets older.

With regards to the DF, is it something you want to do? It doesn't work for all babies, but you did have a couple good nights with it, so you may want to keep at it. I think you have a couple options. If you choose to keep the DF, keep it for two weeks before you reassess. Do the DF and then try to resettle at the first NW. I think at 9 weeks, you could try to resettle anything under 4-5 hrs. At this age, I actually only tried resettling for 15 min before I just fed. Does she fall to sleep independently? Do you use shh/pat or some variation to help her settle? Use that same thing for NWs and she should settle pretty easily. If she doesn't, pick her up and try to burp her, she may be uncomfortable. If she burps, put her back down and settle her. If she doesn't, you can try resettling again or if she's rooting just feed her. The other option would be to drop the DF, feed at the first NW because you'll be pretty sure she's hungry and then expect one more NF. If she wakes within 2-3 hr of the first feed, resettle her as I've mentioned already.

The only way to break the habit of bringing her into bed is to not do it. Work at resettling her the same way you put her down during the day and at bedtime. If you're very consistent with it, she'll start to respond easily. I don't think co-sleeping is bad in and of itself. Lots of people bring baby into bed after the first NW, but I'd be hesitant to let her sleep on the Boppy as it's a much higher SIDS risk.

If you think she might be waking at 2ish due to gas, do you burp her at the DF? Mine always needed a burp at every NF, including the DF to sleep soundly afterward. They're so relaxed after feeding in the night, it's usually pretty easy to get it to come up. Otherwise, you can do as I suggested before and pick her up and try to burp her then and then resettle. I'd opt for getting them out right after the feed, though.

One last thing. You mentioned you're back to work. Did this happen during the whole GS, two week stretch deal? Often babies will start waking more at night when there's a change like that, whether its due to just the change in routine or to get more snuggles in with mom. I always think its the latter. So, it could be just a matter of waiting for her to settle into this new way of life.

Oops, I guess that wasn't it. Would you also post her EASY for us to take a look at? It could be that there's something as simple as a tweak to help things out as well. Sorry for the super long post, I guess I'm long-winded tonight.

[Kirsten~]

Hi Katie,

Thanks so much for the reply. I like your idea of only trying to resettle for about 15 mins. I'll stick with that method to save me on some sleep and make sure she's getting fed if needed. I would like to have the DF work because I need a little time after she goes to sleep to get some work done, get stuff ready for the next day, and just plain relax a bit. But I would like to be able to stay up and still get 5 hours of sleep or so, which I'm not getting now. She's not really falling asleep yet independently, but I'm working on it. She tends to get very drowsy in my arms, but as soon as I put her down she's wide awake, but not crying or fussying. I try to shh and hold (she's very squirming and this works better than pat usually), but sometimes she just stares up at me. I have tried just leaving her since she's calm. A couple times she did fall asleep on her own, but usually she'll start crying a few mins after I leave, and I go back in a ssh some more. I do use shh/hold to resettle her plus give her a paci if she'll take it. I like your suggestion though. I was trying to not pick her up, but then I was missing her rooting. If I pick her up and try to burp her, then I can see if she is or is not rooting. That will help a lot.

I don't burp her after the DF. I am afraid of waking her up, but I can try that tonight. She does tend to burp easier when she's relaxed.

Things in general have been hectic for her. The multiple NWs with DF started a couple weeks ago, and then my ILs were here for a few days, and then I went back to work. So it has been a lot of change for her, but the multiple NWs did start before all this. I will restart the DF tonight and stick to it for 2 weeks before assessing if it's working or not for us.

As for my EASY, I'm not entirely sure right now since she started at the babysitter's this week. I plan to talk to the sitter tomorrow about what the routine is now that she's had my DD for a few days. But before I went back a good day looked like this:

E: 7
A: 7:15
S: 8:30-9:15 (I'd try to resettle, but I've never gotten more than 45 mins for either morning nap)
E: 10
A: 10:15
S: 11:15-12
E: 1
A: 1:15
S: 2-5
E: 5
A: 5:15
E: 6:30
A: 6:45
E: 8
S: 8:15-8:30
10:30 DF
E: 2
E: 5
Start over whenever she woke up.

As for her naps, she seems to either take very short (or no naps) or she takes one really long nap. I don't know why this is, but her long naps seem to be getting more frequent. They used to only come once every few days, but lately we've been seeing them every other day.

Thanks again! Guess I'm also long-winded. :-)

[katie80]

Things in general have been hectic for her. The multiple NWs with DF started a couple weeks ago, and then my ILs were here for a few days, and then I went back to work. So it has been a lot of change for her, but the multiple NWs did start before all this. I will restart the DF tonight and stick to it for 2 weeks before assessing if it's working or not for us.

That is definitely a bit hectic, but so is life, hey?  I'm betting the NWs started because of a GS, but then with all the changes they've just kind of stayed.  Use the strategies that we've talked about and give her some time.  I'm betting she'll settle down soon, and if she doesn't then we can keep looking at things.

Do try and burp at the DF.  It sounds like some of that squirming is definitely gas, so I think that will help.  I know it's scary to think that you might wake her, but honestly, my two have always been so relaxed, the burps come up pretty easy and if they do happen to wake a bit, they nod right back off because they're full and without gas (a great combination ).

You probably don't have much control over her routine now that she's at the babysitter's, but it's possible that 1.5 hr of A time is just a tad too much for her still.  It's hard to know as naps can definitely be short at this age just because.  It sounds like maybe she's starting to settle into something though, if the long ones are coming closer together now.  I would be pretty cautious about bedtime though (this is probably hard being back at work too), but in the routine you wrote out, she was up from 5 pm to 8:15-8:30 pm.  That's super long for her age and likely makes her OT at bedtime which usually adds to NWs.  Try to shoot for about a 12 hr day, as most babies do best on that.  So, if she's up at 7, bedtime is about 7 too.  

[Kirsten~]

Thanks again, Katie. Well, we've been doing the DF now for a week or so, but she's still getting up around 2am, sometimes 1:30. DH has been trying to burp her after her DF, but he's not having any luck. One night she made it to 3, and the other night she woke at 2:30, I resettled her and she was asleep until 4:30! So I know she can go that long, but I feel like this gas situation is causing that early NW.

As for the CN, she never really had one, ever. But we are getting better about getting some sleep in for her in the evenings. At the very least she is usually getting 30 mins in the car after I pick her up from work from about 5-5:30, but we've been giving her some evening sleep time too, which I think is helping her go down easier in the evenings. Well, I should say she's less fussy, but I'm not sure that she's falling asleep faster, per se. We'll see. The 12 hour night is tough because I don't get home until 5:30 or 6, and then I have to get her up by about 6:30. I am shooting to get her down by 7:30 now as much as possible, but she is often wide awake and takes a long time to get to sleep. Was going to post that though over the on the sleep board. I'll keep up the DF, and I'm also going to try to cut out dairy and see how things go.

[katie80]

I feel like this gas situation is causing that early NW.

Yeah, it really does sound like it.  Have you tried Gripe Water or gas drops at all?  I never have as my kids were pretty easy to burp, but it does seem to help some kiddos.  Cutting out dairy and/or tracking other things in your diet that could cause gas may help as well.

The 12 hour night is tough because I don't get home until 5:30 or 6, and then I have to get her up by about 6:30. I am shooting to get her down by 7:30 now as much as possible, but she is often wide awake and takes a long time to get to sleep.

I figured the 12 hr day would be tough for you and that's ok.  You can only do what your schedule allows, she'll adjust where she needs to.  You don't have to make another post, we can work through the BT routine here if you'd like.  What are her days looking like at the sitter's now, including the evenings when she comes home?

[Kirsten~]

Thanks again, Katie. To be honest, I'm not sure what her days look like at the sitters. I ask each day about her eating and sleeping, but I don't think they've got a true routine down yet. I'm trying to push the routine issue, but I just pushed the put her down for naps situation, and we're getting that down. She knows they need to get on a routine, but I'm honestly not sure what that's looking like yet. I know I need to sort of press the issue.
In the evenings, she is ususally sleeping in the car from 5-5:30. Then she's usually awake, and as long as she's had decent naps, she's in good spirits. Then I usually change/bath her around 6:30, nurse her around 7, and then work towards 7:30 BT. Sometimes this shifts by a half hour depending on when she last ate, etc. I ended up posting something on the sleep thing. What's happening is she's often wide awake when I put her down even after our wind down. She's pretty much always smiling and cooing, but completely wide eyed. So I've started giving her a kiss and leaving. I'll go back in if she cries, certainly, but other than that I've just sort of left her to it. And she has put herself to sleep, but I think she spends a long time lying there, hanging out before she actually sleeps. So a 7:30 BT might actually be 8:30 if she stays awake looking around. The other side of me feels like I could stand there forever trying to shh her to sleep and just get frustrated. Not sure what's worse!

[katie80]

What's happening is she's often wide awake when I put her down even after our wind down. She's pretty much always smiling and cooing, but completely wide eyed. So I've started giving her a kiss and leaving. I'll go back in if she cries, certainly, but other than that I've just sort of left her to it. And she has put herself to sleep, but I think she spends a long time lying there, hanging out before she actually sleeps. So a 7:30 BT might actually be 8:30 if she stays awake looking around.

I think this is totally fine to do and the right thing to do.  You don't need to stay with her if she's not crying, that is definitely frustrating.  She probably ends up pretty OS by the end of the day at the sitter's and also enjoys her time with you once she's at home.  Leaving her to just smile and coo by herself in the crib is probably the best thing you can do for her.  You can't 'make' her sleep, and if you kept her up, she'd likely just continue in her OS state.

I wouldn't worry too much about the sitters.  Honestly, I have no experience, but I've had lots of friends with LOs in day care and such and they all end up just fine and come into a routine that works for them and the rest of the kids there.  I'm sure there is only so much one can do who is providing care to several kids.  The routine is great, but it isn't the end-all.  LOs can definitely STTN on a less than perfect routine and she will do so. 

(((Hugs))), you're doing a great job with her.  I'm sure it's exhausting to be back at work so early.  Make sure you get a little time for yourself somewhere in there too!

[Kirsten~]

That's what DH keeps reminding me of: I can't make her sleep! The control freak in me has a hard time accepting that. :-)

As for the daycare/sitter thing, I think she is waiting until her kids are out of school (next week) and then situate a good routine with all of them. I think it'll be less hectic for them then too (fingers crossed).

Thank you so much for the hugs and encouragement! I need it. It's hard not to feel like you're screwing up somewhere when I have all these other people (people at work mostly) who are telling me how they got their kid to sleep through the night by 10 weeks or 6 weeks. Fortunately, I have one friend whose 15 month old still wakes up at 4 am! It reminds me that it is what is, we're all doing the best we can, and every kid is different.

[katie80]

The control freak in me has a hard time accepting that. :-)

LOL, I'm right there with you!

It's hard not to feel like you're screwing up somewhere when I have all these other people (people at work mostly) who are telling me how they got their kid to sleep through the night by 10 weeks or 6 weeks.

I don't believe it for a second! Sure, it may have been a one off here or there, or they kept the LO up all day long so it would sleep at night.  Yes, I know there are some babies who do it, but it's really rare, especially in an EBF bub.  They do all get there in their own time, so don't worry.  You are doing your best and you're doing a great job!