17 month old issues

[*Kara*]

and how many times has he gotten up with him??? NONE!!!

This gives you the right to make the rules

How did it go?

[mjohnson33]

Dh thinks i am an idiot but agreed....so tonight he got home right before Bt, so i just scooped Cole up and had him say goodnight and out him in bed. Cole got all excited as soon as he saw him....so I'd bet that's a big part of it.
Will this have to be permanent where he can't be around or just until Cole gets on a routine??

[mjohnson33]

So, just as I thought, it is DH....Cole was getting ready for bed when DH showed up and Cole got all excited and I just scooped him up and put him into bed but I think the damage was already done...he was very relaxed until that happened.  He seemed to go down just fine but woke screaming 1.5 hours after BT.  I tried to console him but he just wouldnt resettle so I took him into my bed and he was pretty restless. 
So today so far here is the day (we will be back on one nap now!!)
up 7
nap 12:50

So I think I am going to tell DH to not be around after bath at all for the next few days and that combined with the one nap should be good.

So if he naps for 2 hours and wakes around 3 what time for bed?  8 or 8:30? I am getting better at his tired signs now.  He gets real calm and kinda lays on me so I know he is ready.

[*Kara*]

I would do 5 hrs A to BT hun - works like a charm here

[mjohnson33]

Ok Kara, here was yesterday:
7:00 up
nap 12:50-3:40
BT 8:45 asleep by 8:50
He slept really good until 2am then woke screaming and wouldnt go back in his crib so I put him in bed with me and he slept pretty good until he woke at 7:10 this morning.  Why is he waking so early??  He seems tired still and I am worried he may get in a OT loop....

[clairebear79]

Hiya hun

Why is he waking so early??  He seems tired still and I am worried he may get in a OT loop....

I'd say it was because he napped for almost 3hrs.  IMHO its too much day sleep at this age & will lead to shorter nights, b/c he will be UT at bedtime.  The reason he is tired is b/c his nights are short, b.c his nap is too long.

Add to that, his nap was quite late yesterday hun - are you going with longer than 5-5.5hrs A in the AM now or just sticking with a set nap?   Because he had a longer A time than usual, he needed the longer nap, and then because of the long nap, he needed a decent length A to BT.  It all makes his day very long.  And you get stuck with the early wake.  Its an UT/OT loop of sorts.  UT at bedtime, so a short night, then long A to nap = OT by naptime which means long nap & so it goes on.

I honestly think the best thing you could do is aim for a routine of 5-5.5hrs A / 2hr nap / 5hrs A to bedtime, but you will need to cap the nap or you will stay in the UT/OT loop.  So something like:

Up: 7.30/8am
Nap: 1-3
Bed: 8pm

I think Kara has just done something similar with A (although she may have a slightly longer AM A time than your DS) & she has found it worked a treat.

Of course, if you don't want to cap (I seem to recall you prefer not to), then my best advice would be to put him down for his nap after a shorter A time, and he therefore shouldn't nap for as long.  With a shorter morning A time of around 5hrs A, you may find he wakes naturally after 2hrs.  And he may well manage a slightly longer afternoon.

Whatever you do, you will need to remain consistent for a good couple of weeks - if you change things up every day you won't know what is/isn't working.

What do you think?

[mjohnson33]

I'd say it was because he napped for almost 3hrs.

Even if I put him to bed after 5 hours??

Add to that, his nap was quite late yesterday hun - are you going with longer than 5-5.5hrs A in the AM now or just sticking with a set nap?

He is at the sitter M, T, Th so I am kinda at her mercy of when she can put him down.  If I tell her a set time and he doesnt seem tired, she cant put him down.  I ask her to feed him lunch first so it depends on when she can do that.  I can tell her and she will try but I just dont know what that time is.  Yesterday he went a little longer before his nap today he went less and still did 3 hour nap...

Here is today so far:
7:20 up
nap 12:30-3:30
So I will try and keep him up until 9 tonight?? Right??

Of course, if you don't want to cap (I seem to recall you prefer not to), then my best advice would be to put him down for his nap after a shorter A time, and he therefore shouldn't nap for as long.

You are right, I hate waking him from his naps.    So, you really think even if I keep him up longer to BT its still going to cause issues with EWs?  and then getting OT/UT loops?  If he takes a longer nap shouldnt I just do a longer A time? 

Thanks so much for all your advice I am trying as hard as I can to get this right.    He is with me tomorrow which is always different....

[*Kara*]

Agree with Claire!

If I let Alexandra have a 3 hr nap and still 5.5 hrs A time before bed, max 10 hrs at night.  I have to cap her at 2 hrs max to get a good night

[clairebear79]

Quote from: clairebear79 on Today at 09:49:07 PM
I'd say it was because he napped for almost 3hrs.
Even if I put him to bed after 5 hours??

Yup.

If it helps, at that age my DS was doing:

Up: 7am
A = 5.5hrs
Nap: 12.30-2.30
A = 5hrs
Bed: 7.30pm

I had to cap nap at 2hrs because any longer led to early waking.  And he was doing a 5hr A time after a 2hr nap, whereas your DS did a 5hr A after a 3hr nap.  So your DS was tired for bed because of the short nights/long days, but not tired enough to sleep a night of any decent length IYSWIM?  He ideally needs at least 11hrs to feel refreshed during the day.  10.5hrs is acceptable, but TBH if my DS only has that much at night he is super grouchy during the day & tired a lot earlier than usual.

You are right, I hate waking him from his naps.    So, you really think even if I keep him up longer to BT its still going to cause issues with EWs?  and then getting OT/UT loops?  If he takes a longer nap shouldnt I just do a longer A time?

Yes I do think he may still EW (i.e. pull a short night).  I think if he does a long morning, an long nap AND a long afternoon, his day will be too long overall, and his nights too short, and he will get overtired.  Day sleep & night sleep are of a different quality (scientifically studied & proven) & night sleep is so much more restorative & so it is better for him to have an 11hr night/2hr nap than it is for him to have a 10hr night/3hr nap IYSWIM?

For today, I would probably aim for somewhere between 8.30-9pm BT, esp since he only did a 5hr A this morning, and hope that he sleeps in til a decent time tomorrow, but be prepared for another short night. 

WRT babysitter - I know its difficult when they are with someone else.  Perhaps sticking with a set time on the clock is better?  That way it will be easier for her to keep to & for DS to get used to?  I've found as my DS has gotten older that works far better than set A times anyway.  Keeps it more consistent for everyone.

HTH.x

[chicagomom]

once again, mjohnson, having similar issues here - except that DS will sleep through until 4:45/5:15am (after going to bed between 7:30/8pm) and it takes forever for him to go back to sleep for another hour before getting up for the day (i tend to him 1-2x during that time).  he is having ongoing health issues though with his gut and pooping so we think that is contributing to his wake ups.  it is so hard and i, too, loathe to shorten his 2.5/3 hour nap.  our DS's seem to prefer a lot of daytime sleep!  no advice just commiseration!

[mjohnson33]

Ok ladies last night was the worst...I am thinking he might be getting teeth AGAIN!!!
I put him to bed at 9 he was out by 9:05 then woke screaming at 10:15!!! Hysterical!! So I brought him to my bed and he went to sleep but woke at 6:50!!!  He is exhausted!!
So clairebear I am going to try your suggestion...nap at 12:15/12:30, since he is so tired should I cap the nap or just wait and see?? If I cap, what time should we BT?

[mjohnson33]

Nice to see you chicagomom, I am sorry that you are going through the same things.  Is your DS constipated?? Kara and i have had lots of issues as well with that. 

[clairebear79]

I would say 2hrs, with BT somewhere between 7-7.30 (depending on WU).  if he is really horrendously tired then you could allow up to 2.5hrs today (given the rough night) but I would definitely draw the line at that.

[mjohnson33]

Thanks Clairebear, he went right down at 12:15 so I will cap at 2.5, he usually never gives me more than that here anyway.  He has been taking the long naps at the sitter.  So no later than 8 BT tonight right??  How long do you think it will take before things work?  A few days?

[chicagomom]

Nice to see you chicagomom, I am sorry that you are going through the same things.  Is your DS constipated?? Kara and i have had lots of issues as well with that. 

no, he has food intolerance and diarrhea/soft stools.  it has been a blast here!  that is partly why i really don't want to mess with him (i.e. wake him up).  but these naps are so wacky, aren't they?