5 month old back to 2 night feeds. Urgh.

[brummum]

Hi all, first of all let me just say I have no problem with feeding little man at night so please don't see this as a selfish thing. My concern is due to the fact 1) he is a biiiiig boy (90th centile) therefore don't want to give him more milk than he actually needs and 2) don't want to create bad habits for us and him.
So that said, I posted a while back regarding night wakings and since then little man had reduced his night feeds to one 4oz bottle at about 3-4am. So sleeping from 7pm to 3/4ish then back down til 6:30ish. He then had one night right before we went on holiday last week where he slept through (OMG!). Then we went on holiday for a week, strange place, cot very narrow, had to sleep in same room as us etc.. and night wakings went haywire!! Long story short by the end of the week he was requiring 2 night feeds again. We tried everything to resettle without feeding him twice but nothing worked and he did take a full feed when fed him. We hoped this would sort itself out when we got home but we have been back a week and he has consistently waked for 2 night feeds (12ish and 4ish). I manage to get him to only take 4oz on second feed but he would take a whole bottle if i let him, but if we do this he won't touch morning bottle (can you tell we have been here before?!). So basically we are back to square one.
Just so frustrating after all that improvement. As I said I am happy to feed at night I just don't understand it, he's not due a growth spurt (nearly 23 weeks). Any ideas?? Is this common to regress like this?

[katie80]

Yes, I think that's very typical when you go away from home to regress.  It does often work itself out when you get back, but since it hasn't, let's take a look at it. 

There is a chance he's having a growth spurt.  Typically there is one at 4 and 6 mo, but I know there were a couple LOs my DS's age that had one around 5 mo. And they don't always come right when expected, so he may be having one a little early.  The other thing is, he's getting to the age of being about ready to start solids.  He may just be more hungry. My DS is also a bigger baby (although slimming a bit), he was still around the 90th centile at 6 mo.  He is EBF, but did start waking for another feed in the night from 5-6 mo.  We started solids at 5.5 mo and I 'think' lost the extra NF a week or two later. 

How did you go about losing the feed the first time?  Can you add any more oz to his daytime bottles and reduce that second night one any more? What happens if you try to resettle him at one of the feeds?  Are they habitual enough that you could try wake-to-sleep?

[brummum]

Hi there, thanks for your response. We think we have figured out what is going on and the increase NW's appear at the moment to be associated with teething. The night before last he woke up at 11ish so we were convinced it wasn't hunger  - my other half medicated him (teething granules and calpol) and he went back to sleep until 3! Last night I decided that I would not go into him unless he was actually crying or was fussing and did not resettle in a reasonable time (he is quite good at resettling and putting self to sleep) at which point I would try medicating and feed if this did not help. I didn't have to go in once! I heard him wake multiple times but he resettled and he was never actually crying. He seemed pretty tired this morning though as his sleep was obviously a broken one. Now I'm thinking is it better to medicate even if he is managing to resettle so that he can have a more restful nights sleep?? also I know they can suffer with teething pain for months before a tooth actually comes through and not sure I'm happy to just keep medicating him like this (worrying first time mum alert!).
Would you agree with my take on the NW's? In answer to your questions - we started solids last week and he has taken to them well and is now having some 3 times a day. Sticking to porridge in morning, pureed fruit/veg midday and rice before bed. He dropped the main one (11:30 12ish) on his own and we gradually reduced the 3-4am one, so he was on one 4oz feed a night for a week or so and then he did that random sleep through. The NW's are not habital at the moment. I have tried offering him 8oz instead of 7oz bottles but he is still only taking the 7.

[becj86]

Now I'm thinking is it better to medicate even if he is managing to resettle so that he can have a more restful nights sleep?? also I know they can suffer with teething pain for months before a tooth actually comes through and not sure I'm happy to just keep medicating him like this (worrying first time mum alert!).

I would, but that's me. I tend to assess each day - DS has certain behaviours that show he's teething pain is bothering him, most obviously, he bites my nipples (ouch!) and that's when he gets meds before bed. I only do further meds if he wakes and is in pain. I understand not wanting to medicate... this is the flip side: he's in pain that is preventing him from sleeping properly. Do you not take medication for a headache/pain every time you have one that is preventing you sleeping?

Has he dropped his milk intake now he's on solids? Most babies don't go straight onto solids 3x per day unless doing baby led weaning... Are you offering water/milk when he has solids? Bubs can get quite solid poos and have trouble passing them if they don't get enough liquid with their solids meals when they're starting out.

[brummum]

He hasn't dropped his milk intake during the day but he had been dropping intake at night (not sure if this was just coincidence though). At this point they aren't suppose to start replacing any of their milk intake are they?? Offering him tastes 3 times a day was advised by health visitor and then when he responded really well to it quickly, they said to just offer him as much as he wanted. He's having the equivalent of one of those smaller 4-6 month jars at each 'meal' and i mix up the porridge/puree/rice with some milk to reach this volume so I have not been offering additional milk/water. Was going to start offering him a zippy cup with water in a few weeks. We haven't had any problems with his bowel movements though.

[becj86]

At this point they aren't suppose to start replacing any of their milk intake are they??

No, that's why I asked - in case he was waking hungry at night from dropping day milk intake...

Just that those are common things that can have LO's waking in the night.

[katie80]

Agree with all that Bec's said. I also tend to make a decision to medicate at BT for teething based on behaviors I've noticed during the day. If I decide not to give any and LO has a tough night with waking, I'll give it then. If you hear that he's sleeping restlessly, you could always give a dream med as well, sneaking in and giving him some while he's asleep kind of like a dream feed. I'm also of the camp that if they're suffering, they should be given something. I wouldn't want to have to try to sleep through it. Once all the teeth are through, you'll come to realize that you likely didn't give as much as you thought you would, it just kind of seems like it at the time. Hope that makes sense!

[brummum]

Thanks ladies, appreciate the advice a reassurance.

[brummum]

just an update, although medicating worked intially for the last couple of nights it hasn't helped him. Last night he woke at 1 and we tried medicating, changing, he did not feel too hot or cold. Nothing helped so after half an hour or so we feed him and he took the whole 7oz and went back to sleep until 5 when a bowel movement woke him. So I'm thinking maybe he is going through a growth spurt and this is why he has reintroduced full night feed?? Although we are back to messing about with morning bottle though (fun times!). I'm hoping that as he has dropped night feeds of his own accord previously that he will do so again once growth spurt over. If not when do you make the decision that he doesn't need them anymore? Doesn't Tracey say something about 6months??

[becj86]

I'm hoping that as he has dropped night feeds of his own accord previously that he will do so again once growth spurt over. If not when do you make the decision that he doesn't need them anymore? Doesn't Tracey say something about 6months??

This is what happened with DS - he just dropped the feeds out on his own again.

I'm not the best person to ask about when LO doesn't need NF's any more... DS still gets one occasionally I'll see if I can find someone who knows a bit more about bottle feeding.

[brummum]

Thanks, it's so hard to know what to do for the best sometimes to support independent sleep but make sure his needs are met. He likes to keep me on my toes! I'll be convinced that he's waking due to pain but he needs feeding, if I think it's feeding waking him then it will turn out he needs stripping off, if I think it's because he's too hot it will actually be teething pain...etc...! Don't feed like I read him very well and that I'm a bit of a pants mommy!

[becj86]

Don't feed like I read him very well and that I'm a bit of a pants mommy!

You are not a pants mummy. LO's are hard to read. Just the fact you feel like that means you're not, because you CARE! I didn't even consider cold at one stage when DS was waking a lot and I was getting cranky because it was cold when I was out of bed

I've asked around the mods and the consensus seems to be that you don't force LO's to drop night feeds completely til LO is really well established on solids unless its affecting day feeds.

[brummum]

Yeah, I don't think I could force the issue with him even if I wanted to!! It's just the way he messes about with the morning feed when he has had night feeds that make me question whether he really needs it ykwim?! Thanks for the support - it's so hard when they are screaming in your arms and you're looking at them like 'I haven't got the faintest idea why you are upset'.

[becj86]

It's just the way he messes about with the morning feed when he has had night feeds that make me question whether he really needs it ykwim?!

This would be a cue to try to reduce the bottles a bit, but not drop all NF's. You know where you were before... you can probably go back to that gradually