Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies

[badpixie]

hiya everyone, just need somewhere to let of a bit of steam and get some support. My lo is 18mo and is going through a very difficult patch. He's just so whiny and demanding, everything escalates so quickly! Its only at home, he's great with the childminder (once a week) and with my friend who has a baby of a similar age, so we do baby swaps. So its just when he's at home with me or DP. I know this points to boredom or need for simulation but its so hard to keep up! This would mean being out of the house all day every day and we just can't manage it - we live in the north of england so now with the winter coming the desire to leave the house is getting less and less! It doesn't help that both me and DP struggle with the blues at this time of the year anyway.
Even when we leave the house, we come back for food/naps and all hell breaks loose, we just had a proper melt down, almost a tantrum, whilst i was making his lunch because he wants to be held, over the oven whilst I'm cooking! Some things I just can't do! And he wont be distracted, this boy is persistant!. We're tearing our hair out! I'm trying to be calm but DP is losing it and I'm trying to calm them both down. I've read RYSC and ROCRO but I'm struggling! DP is fantasizing about leaving us, I know he wouldn't but it not nice to hear.
Please tell me this is a phase! (till the next one)
What makes it worse is he such and angel with other people, possibly because he gets the stimulation he needs. I'm sure my friends think I'm making it up or exaggerating! Sometimes I think maybe I am, and I'm just rubbish at this! How are we going to cope when the real tantrums start??!

Sorry I just needed to get that all out. I think I need to hang out here for a bit with people who understand!

[Canadian_Mom]

Hugs!!  That sounds very frustrating!  Maybe check out the activities board to see ways to get out energy inside the house??  My girlfriends daughter is very spirited and even in the winter she has to make sure that they get out at least every second day or else being at home is just too crazy!

This is my first post here.  I just did the quiz and found out that DS2 definitely has a spirited side, so I figured I would take a quick read of this thread to see what others are going through.  He is definitely a very "active" sleeper and interesting as we slowdance for a winddown he wiggles around, babbles (loudly) and then just boom, he is asleep.  I often miss the drowsy period to put him down!  Good to know that short WD is best!

[becj86]

Hayley, DS has a cupboard set aside for him in the kitchen (plastic containers, etc.) - I redirect to that cupboard whenever he goes to other parts of the kitchen that are dangerous. He is also capable (and you will be able to judge if your LO is) of sitting on the bench if given a task like washing potatoes in a bowl or stirring dry ingredients together for a batch of biscuits. He does know 'hot' and will not touch hot stuff.

FWIW, I do spend all day outside the house except when DS is napping and when we come home for dinner prep, so he's had quite a lot of mummy-time at the park or swimming or something and can usually cope with 15mins of alone time while I scramble together something resembling a meal. DS does better with food that's been prepared and he doesn't have to wait - he often will lose it if he's hungry and I'm making something, just needs something to tide him over - could you try giving him a couple of crackers or some fruit while you make 'lunch proper'?

[roimata9]

Hayley, I totally hear you! This was our experience a few months ago. My LO was great when we were out, or had people over or was with his minder, but whiny and grizzly at home with me.
Someone suggested taking note of what triggered him, and I found that really useful. I wrote down what was happening when he was at his best and worst and compared the two. That might help for you too?
What I found was the whiny-when-home-just-with-me time, wasn't entirely accurate, it was more whiny when at home with me when I needed to clean/cook or do something he couldn't be part of. If I was sitting playing with him, he'd be great. this, I think was why he was great when we had visitors etc, as he had people focussed on him who would play with him or redirect him before he got grizzly.
It was particularly bad when we got home from his day of childcare, as he hadn't had mama time, was usually hungry and I needed to cook - 3 major causes of meltdowns all at once! To fix that, i started giving him some food on the way home and stopping off at the park or library or something to have a bit of mama time before getting home. Then at home I would try to have something prepared already for dinner (I'd make double a different night and freeze half) and I'd wear him in the front pack while I heated that up. That worked well for a while, now he's happy to stand on a chair at the sink and "wash dishes" while I prepare his meal.
So his meltdowns typically were caused by hunger, tiredness, not enough mama time, getting frustrated with his toys, being told no or not being able to join in on the adults tasks. Taking these away as much as possible really helped!
here's what we did:
We completely child proofed the house so he can wander at will without being told no
We rotate his toys so he doesn't get bored of them.
Bought him a broom and clothes line and taught him how to use the minivac so he can "help"
Fed him 4 large-ish meals instead of 3 meals and 2 snacks.
Make sure he gets lots of attention when he's been away for the day.
Really protect his naps and BT - he is high sleep needs and pretty much has two speeds: stop and fast forward

He is sooooo much better now, so have hope it will improve!

Obviously your LO's triggers will be different, but hopefully that might give you some ideas on where to start.
Good luck!

[badpixie]

Thank you for the hugs, support and suggestions!
I do generally let him 'help' when I cook, he gets big pan, a wooden spoon and I let him have the peelings to 'cook' Or I let him 'wash up' but then I have t completely change him and mop up the floor! But this day he wasn't interested in that, he wanted to be in my arms and over the cooker and wouldn't be distracted from this. But I have realised that he been super hungry these last few days and the tantrums were happening at lunchtime, so I've been giving him his lunch 15mins earlier and its really helped! I think it was a hungry/tired thing. Plus this week he's been able to go to the childminder and have his regular playdates because last week he had conjunctivitis so I couldn't do much with him. Him being ill probably wasn't helping either.

I took him to the park and all he wanted to do was put sticks in the bin! I wouldn't have minded except I had to lift him up for him to do it! Its like being with someone with OCD sometimes! Eventually we had to leave because of the call of nature, and he protested loudly most of the way home! Sometimes he gets really locked in to a task which can be great but also if we have to take him away from it, it results in a major meldown. I'm trying really hard to come up with new activities, the activity threads are really helpful, i think things are much improved by the fact he's out of the 'putting everything in his mouth' phase so he can play with my buttons (closely supervised of course) and I let him play with pennies. But everything I come up with bores him within a few days and I have to think of more stuff. I've not got much of and imagination at the best of times! I've always struggled to keep this boy stimulated. I'm ashamed to say that when I'm really tired I do resort to dvds, which he loves and absorb him like nothing else!

Writing it down is a great idea, Roimata, I will do that, if only to prove to myself its not just me boring him, but maybe it is!! Sometimes its hard to think when he's tugging and moaning and squawking!

Next week is half term so my childminder can't take him as her little boy is home, also my regular play date swapses mum is away too, so I'm trying to make a plan for every day to keep the grumpies at bay! I'm a bit apprehensive, but at least he's not ill (touch wood) which should help!

[Kirsten~]

Good to know that short WD is best!

Hi Nadia! I never posted after asking these ladies for help with our WD, but their advice was dead on! I shortened our WD to just bath, BF, and a very quiet song with the lights out, and now our BT has improved significantly! Now when I put her down, at worst, we have to go up once before she is asleep. Before, we were up there many times sometimes and it was really frustrating. Eliminating the bedtime story was actually really helpful (I never would've thought!).

[Canadian_Mom]

Glad to hear that the WD change worked for you at BT!!  Who knew that such a little change could make such a big difference!!

Wondering if spirited LOs get frustrated with toys a lot easier??  Starting at 2.5 months I have had to take some of his toys away as they made him mad.  He had a turtle with a mirror on the bar of his bouncy chair and learnt that he could move his hands towards it when he was 2.5 months, well I ended up having to take it off as it looked like he was trying to push both his hands on either side of it to grab it (he wasn't able to grab things yet, his hands were still pretty much fists), and then got mad when he couldn't bring it towards him self!!  It was interesting to watch at first and then I just felt so bad for the little guy cause he just kept getting mad that it wasn't doing what he wanted it to do!!

[badpixie]

Wondering if spirited LOs get frustrated with toys a lot easier??  Starting at 2.5 months I have had to take some of his toys away as they made him mad.  He had a turtle with a mirror on the bar of his bouncy chair and learnt that he could move his hands towards it when he was 2.5 months, well I ended up having to take it off as it looked like he was trying to push both his hands on either side of it to grab it (he wasn't able to grab things yet, his hands were still pretty much fists), and then got mad when he couldn't bring it towards him self!!  It was interesting to watch at first and then I just felt so bad for the little guy cause he just kept getting mad that it wasn't doing what he wanted it to do!!

Definitely this, my lo has always been frustrated by this short comings!! I would have to keep an eye on his frustration levels. Its a fine line between letting practise something but not letting him get really frustrated and distressed> I always changed toys or activties when this happened, or had some quiet time. Also he got (and still does gets) over stimulated really easily, I realised pretty quickly that he couldn't have anything in his cot at all otherwise he would get excited and be so much harder to get to sleep! He's a bit better now...

[Lindsay27]

How to help a spirited LO self settle?  B is a horrible napper, always has been.  We quite literally have never had long naps except for a brief stint of about 2 weeks when he was 4.5 months old, right now we are battling 30min ones.  On the birth clubs someone mentioned that often we are afraid to let our LOs cry when then wake early from a nap for fear of CIO, when in reality they are trying to self settle.  This really hit home for me, because as soon as I hear a peep I pretty much go running in, because my experience has been that his "self settling" escalates pretty quickly.

I don't know how to solve our nap problems if I am not teaching him to self settle.  But, we know the way these spirited ones are...he goes from 0 - 60 in a very short period of time and can get hysterical so quickly.

So...I don't know what to do.  He has zero self settling skills, I have always rocked him to sleep, and pretty well always went to him when he wakes up.  This morning I tried leaving him to settle, and it did sound like genuine settling for about 20 mins, but then the cry escalated and I had to go in.  This afternoon his cry escalated almost immediately.

I don't know what to do!

[Kirsten~]

Hi Lindsay! I'm so glad you posted over here because I SO wanted to comment on your post on the BCs, but know that I shouldn't. I have the same problem with Ina. She is the exact same way...goes from 0-60 in no time at all. I wouldn't say B has no self settling skills though because he can give you pretty decent nights (when he's not sick that is), so you know that he is able to transition through different types of sleep without your help.

I would say two things that I've done: 1. if he's just whimpering or moaning, leave him unless or until it escalates. 2. If he's crying, but not hysterical, look at the clock and give him 3 mins before you go up there. If he escalates and gets really hysterical, then go sooner.
I found that giving myself a "rule" helped me to not race up there every time. I like the idea of leaving him too if he is crying and stopping. My only issue with that is that with Ina she will scream and then stop for a second, then scream again. It never sounds like settling to me, so I end up intervening for those too even though she is starting and stopping.

Having said all this, we are also still dealing with 30 min naps, so I'm not one to offer much advice! Maybe I need to tell DH to leave her for a few mins when she wakes from those short naps. It's so hard to tell sometimes what's going on with these LOs. Good luck!

Use your best judgement too. If it does not at all sound like he's settling then go check on him. Sometimes I get to her bedroom door, and she stops crying, so I just wait outside her door for a few mins.

[becj86]

What's your routine?

If that's spot on (or at least the first A time is and then you're getting a 30min nap), you could be dealing with a few other issues often overlooked - overstimulation or not enough physical activity. Overstimulation - baby's brain  is still running a mile a minute and when he stirs, he wakes and just wants to pick up where he left off - usually still tired but raring to go. Not enough physical activity - arms/legs/both move while sleeping because they haven't done enough moving while LO is awake to need the rest - brain needs the sleep but body doesn't.

At 6 months, LO's usually need to be in the same place they went to sleep (or a really familiar, safe place) to go back to sleep if they wake - so that's where going to sleep in the cot is important. I found that helping DS transition into the cot for naptime was helpful - a toy or something involved in the last activity before naptime went in the cot with him and he would fight sleep a lot less - he'd often sit in the cot and play then lie down and go to sleep or call out for me and I'd go in, lie him down, tell him it was sleep time and he'd go to sleep. You may find shush/pat or some variation in the cot helps keep him a little calmer as you start this process.

[Lindsay27]

I wouldn't say B has no self settling skills though because he can give you pretty decent nights

This is true!  If everything is going normally we usually have a fairly easy 7pm BT, 1 NF between 1am - 2am, then up for the day around 6:15am.  Him being sick and teething can for sure throw this for a loop, but when all is good...it's good!

What's your routine?

Well, it hasn't been great lately to be honest.  He has spent the better part of the last month and a half sick - he got a cold that took a full 3+ weeks to completely get rid of, then he was well for about a week or two, then last week picked up something nasty (I actually think it may be Fifths Disease!).  So, with all this...the routine has been off kilter.  His A times are hit and miss because of how sick he's been.  Though, before he was sick...we had a pretty solid routine, but still short naps.

Other than the odd time I bring him into my bed for a snuggle, he always sleeps in his crib at night and for naps.  Overstimulation could be an issue, but he is definitely getting enough physical activity - he loves his jolly jumper and his exercauser and we do lots of floor time where he can roll around, reach/play with toys.   

I have vowed to spend this week focusing on routine and trying to get his A times back up.  We were around the 3hr mark, but I wasn't finding it was helping to lengthen naps.  I usually sneak into his room at the 25min mark and start patting to help him through the transition, and it was working really well for a while (it was a process though, and would take about 15-20mins), but lately I've not been having as much success unfortunately.

I like the idea of transitioning a toy into bed with him, so I will try that

[Lindsay27]

Kirsten, I LOVE you new pic btw!!!

[becj86]

The reason I ask about routine is that LO's and particularly spirited LO's tend to have a very narrow sleep window, so if you're not confident you're putting him down when he's just the right amount of tired (not OT or UT), you can't expect him to go to sleep easily, yk? Also when he's sick, you will probably find he needs a little extra TLC

[Lindsay27]

I can usually get him to go to sleep easily (though, usually by rocking), it's the staying asleep that's the problem...and self settling (or lack of it).  But yes, I know what you mean, the window of opportunity still applies and I am sure would help for him to transition on his own.  We've pretty well never been able to nail it, so no...not confident at all!  I really struggle to understand what his A times should be.