Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies

[becj86]

If I recall, your DD has reflux? In which case, sleeping on you may just be how she's comfortable - at that angle...

FWIW, DS slept on me for almost every nap til he was almost 4 months and he was an awesome independent sleeper within a couple of days of sleep training. He was used to the routine, used to sleeping at that particular time, was well rested, etc. and what remained was to put him down in his cot.  Frankly I'm not sure how mums of refluxing spiriteds cope, each one is a challenge at this age and to have both wrapped up in a tiny screaming bundle would be terrifying to me. Having said that, I used a gradual withdrawal process with Logan and that was great for him. He was used to falling asleep in my arms, so I would hold him til he was nearly asleep then put him down in his cot and comfort him to sleep from there, then gradually put him down more awake over the next days. I think you would have to know that she's not in pain when lying flat though, before you start that or anything similar. In your shoes, I'd be doing whatever you have to to keep a routine in place and keep her rested.

We actually did a lot better with no wind down (or minimal) because DS didn't want to miss anything, so any cues that it was time to sleep didn't go down too well

[Melsie]

Thank you so much for your response. The doc does think she has reflux. She is on gaviscon at the moment. She sleeps so soundly on me, that's what makes me think she is not in pain (she used to squirm and grimace as though she was uncomfortable). I had a successful nap and BT yesterday. I bobbed her until she was sleepy and then laid down and stayed with her until she was in a deep sleep. That has not been so successful this morning! I am so anxious that she is not going to be sleep trained before I go back to work. I can't imagine any daycare provider standing around bobbing her up and down and I am petrified she is going to be left to cry  . When I read the baby whisperer solves all your problems the other day I was overwhelmed with the number of mistakes I have made and felt like I needed to make a start on helping her to sleep by herself. I still have six months off but the last three months have flown by already!

[becj86]

Ok, well the best thing you can do is get the meds right for her so she is comfortable enough to sleep. You've got 3 months still, so don't get too worried. Try to put her down for each nap a little more awake but if she's just not having it on a given day where she has been fine before, don't feel bad about AP'ing a nap so she remains rested. Spiriteds often do have troubles going off to sleep if you don't get their window precisely. DS had a 2min window for ages and if I was too early or too late for the nap to start, it was a nightmare to get him down but that window grew and now its not such an issue. A lot of this all comes with development.

re: Daycare - get your doc to write a note about what her reflux means for her sleep-wise. You may be able to find one that can let her sleep in a swing or something so she's upright and less uncomfortable. I honestly have seen a carer at the daycare my son goes to carrying a toddler while he slept because he was needing cuddles and just not sleeping well that day; and also have seen them with babies sleeping on them for long periods of time, so there are people/places out there that will do that. You should start looking for somewhere that you're happy with the vibe of the place and that will fit in with your routine. I was able to write out DS' routine and they followed it for me, even when it was not convenient for them. They are being paid by you to look after your child the way you ask them to.

[Tecike]

Melsie, I had a spirited refluxer without meds. I agree with everything bec said. As my DS was uncomfortable lying down, I held and rocked him to sleep for more than 4 mo, and waited for the 4 mo GS to be over and only then started to sleep train him with the same GW method. Make sure your cot is elevated, it helped us loads.
We also have a very short WD, which still includes a bit of holding, rocking and cuddling before I lie him down. And if I miss his window, he gets so hyper, it takes ages to settle him down.

Hope you figure everything out for daycare!

[roimata9]

Melsie, are you on the reflux boards? They are amazing over there. I had a spirited refluxer who became a completely new child once we put him on omeprazole. It only took 3 days, and he started going to sleep independently.
Don't despair about the AP at the moment, your baby's in pain and needs the extra comfort that others don't. If I were you, I'd get that part sorted first and then worry about the sleep side. I remember someone on the reflux boards telling me that reflux babies usually sort out the sleep once the pain is gone, and that was definitely true for DS.
HUGS!!!!

[Melsie]

How will I know when the reflux pain is gone though? I know it's different for all babies buut what is the average age for it to settle down?  I know it sounds silly but she seems much more content in her A time already?

[roimata9]

The reflux board would be the best place to answer that. For DS he went from crying constantly unless he was feeding or sleeping (and sometimes would cry in his sleep too) to having long periods of no crying, he smiled for the first time and started laughing. He also started sleeping in his bed, not on us for naps.
He would always cry out after 20 mins of sleep too, which stopped when he went on meds.
We tried gaviscon which didn't work, he was still spilling a lot. Then we tried ranitidine which made it probably 75% better, then omeprazole solution which made it 100% worse again and now on omaprazole granules he's 100% better. I tried taking him off last week and after day 2 he woke screaming every hour. On it he sleeps through the night regularly, has good naps and is generally really happy - although still spirited so gets OS.
Good luck!

[Melsie]

Thank you. I will have a look on reflux board.

[smitch100]

hi  i am new to the forum.  my baby is 5 weeks and i think he has all the makings of a spirited baby.  i am taking him for cranial osteopathy next week as people have suggested this may help him settle.  has anyone else tried this?  we're not really in any routine yet as it's just a constant battle trying to get him to sleep more than a few hours in 24. 

[becj86]

Hi, welcome

I haven't tried it, but at the very most, it will only help with physical misalignments/discomfort. It won't change any of his personality traits that make settling more difficult.

When you say you're having trouble getting him to sleep more than a few hours in 24, how many is he sleeping? I'm asking because at this age, most babies are still in a 'sleepy' newborn phase so if you're having trouble getting him to sleep and stay asleep at the moment, he could have pain causing an issue. How is he fed (breast/formula)?

To be honest with you, most people are still figuring out the routine at this point. If you keep at the EAS order, things should start to come a bit easier in the coming weeks. Keep in mind that A time is pretty much taken up with eating at this age, so a quick nappy change is often about as much as you can fit in between feed and sleep.

How are you getting him to sleep? He may sleep better in a sling/carrier where he's nice and close to you. Its good to start as you mean to go on, but honestly independent sleep is pretty easy to teach at 3.5-4 months after you've had plenty of newborn snuggles.

[smitch100]

hi
He was a forceps delivery so the health visitor suggested cranial osteopathy may help if he has pain in his head.
He’s breastfed and gaining weight and giving me plenty of wet/dirty nappies so I think he gets enough to eat. I’m not sure if he’s colicky or not, he doesn’t seem to be in pain although he does get wind and his tummy gurgles quite dramatically sometimes.
He sleeps between 8 and 10 hours in 24.  Most of that is 2 hour sleeps in the night which is why I think he may be spirited.  In the day I think he just gets over stimulated and over tired so then it’s really hard to settle him, plus he’s always been really alert so I guess he doesn’t want to miss anything.
In the day he sometimes will sleep in the sling or if I lie down holding him sometimes that works.  At night I try to start him off in his crib and then bring him in with me for night feeds.  If I can’t settle him in the crib I just have him with me.  I swaddle him (much to his disgust) but he still manages to kick a lot which keeps him awake.  I try pat/shh, and other people have managed with rocking but not me. we have a sound machine that plays a heart beat and i pat in time with that.  He likes to be held most of the time so it is hard to lie him down.  It worries me that I don’t think he’s getting the amount of sleep he needs so I do anything I can to help him sleep but he really fights it often I end up spending the whole S time trying to settle him and in the end I have to feed him again because he’s got hungry fighting and yelling.
It’s hard going and very inconsistent, so hard to really put my finger on what works and what the problems are but I just feel he would be happier with more sleep!

[:: ANA ::]

(Sorry I' coming in in the middle of another topic)...

Just wanted to say thank you bec, I'll definitely post on sleeping for toddlers...although I'm getting very good nights (+11hrs straight, very rare NW) they aren't as long as they were (he could go +12hrs) and now no naps! I'm ready to give up on naps if he is, as long as he keeps good nights going, but I'm beyond scared of him getting OT! 


Let's see what they have to say over there!

Thanks! 

[becj86]

All good, Ana Hope he sticks with those good nights for you. xx

Smitch100 - Have a read of this, I just have a feeling there's something going on other than spiritedness to have him sleeping so little. Reflux 101 - General reflux information

Let me know if the cranial osteopthy works I hope so!

I'd say he's really really overtired. At this young age, and while you're not sure if he's in pain or not, the important thing is to get sleep into him as easily for you as possible and to keep you sane. Have him in the sling/pram/whatever he prefers, go for walks, lie on the couch with him on you, AP to your hearts content to get him to sleep. At about 6 weeks, I gave up on having DS nap in the cot and just gave him the opportunity to sleep when he 'should' be sleeping. By that I mean I just fed him in the morning, changed his nappy and then went for a walk - he would look around and then fall asleep when he was ready. I'm not saying that will happen for you, but it worked for my spirited at around that age and it helped me to get out of the house and get some exercise. It meant I kept the EAS order but the clock was pretty much irrelevant.

Hugs xx it is exhausting when LO won't sleep.

[Sweetpeajanet]

Hello,
Just wondering if any of your spirited babies are like mine? She is teething the top four teeth all at once and has been for weeks now. She is screeching, screaming, clinging to my leg, irritable and very aggressive. I know it must be painful for her but the constant whining is doing my head in. It eats away at my nerves and I end up snapping My son hates it too, then he acts up because he is frustrated. Any ideas? She is 10 months old. I've actually become afraid to go out because of her screeching and trying to propel herself our of the pram...I'm also worried about what toddlerdom might bring. She's exhausting me mentally and I desperately need some tips. Thanks

[becj86]

Yeah. The teething is BAD. If I was in that pain, I'd take a panadol to take the edge off, so that's what I did with DS, just kept the panadol going 4 doses in 24hr and added in additional if necessary at night (nurofen for most kids, DS reacts badly to it ).

Could you take her to a park where her screeching isn't so contained and she can move around? I'd be doing that.