having trouble 5 month old one to two night wakings

[marleymar]

Hi everyone. i'm looking for some advice. second child and never had these problems. i have a 5 month old that is waking in the night around 4am and some times at 2am. i'm not sure if he is teething. he has lots of drool and hands in his mouth. i have not started solids yet. i tried once with cereal at dinner and it didn't help. my LO is in the 90th percentile for weight. i haven't let him cry because i have a 2.5 year old tht is a really light sleeper down the hall.  here is a bit of his schedule. we are EBM and formula. please help get through the night.

awake at 8am.
E-9am (6 oz)
A
S-10:15-11:30

E-12
A
S-1pm-2:15

E-3pm
A
S-3:45-4:30

E-6pm
A
bedtime routine at 7
bottle at 7:30 and to bed

dream feed 10 (6 oz)

awake 4ish
sometimes at 2am right now

[jennandsophie]

I would try to push out his A times a bit throughout the day so that his last nap ends closer to bedtime.  He could also be slightly undertired from not enough A time throughout the day.  If they aren't awake enough in the day, they do it at night.  How does he go down for his naps?  Does it take him a long time to fall asleep?  The A times seem slightly low, but then he may just be on the lower side of the spectrum.  You don't want to push it too quickly if he's the type who gets OT easily.

For the 4am feed, my DS also wakes every night around this time.  Apparently this is not unusual because this is when the lightest period of sleep occurs and the digestive system starts working.  Do you do a feed at this time?  It could be hunger or something environmental that causes him to wake.

[marleymar]

thanks for the input. i wondered if his A time wasn't long. i usually put him to the crib when he starts rubbing his eyes so he goes into the crib awake. he settles easily in the crib. i do feed him at 4am.

[katie80]

I agree, his A times (apart from the first one) are definitely low.  Most 5 mo olds are doing around 2-2:15 hr A time.  Push them by about 10-15 min each day for a few days and see if you don't start to get some better naps/nights.  Here are some sample routines to take a look at for his age range.  HTH!

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164029.0

[jennandsophie]

i usually put him to the crib when he starts rubbing his eyes so he goes into the crib awake.

I've noticed that sometimes my DS will yawn or rub eyes as well but he's not really ready for a long, good nap.  He'll just do 45 mins or 1hr 15mins instead of a good 2hr nap.  I have to push him to 3hrs A and then he'll take the longer nap.  However, he's a bit older than your DS and he's always been on the higher end of the A time scale.

[marleymar]

thanks for the advice. things are not getting better. he is still up at 4am plus some times at 2am. i was able to push him to stay away 2.5 hours but now he wants to nap for 2.5 hrs to 3hrs. any advice. thanks,

[katie80]

Can you post your routine for us now?  Typically, a 5 mo old should have 2 naps of 1.5-2 hr and a CN of 30-45 min. It's possible he's getting too much daytime sleep.  But, it sounds like he's a good napper, so it shouldn't be too difficult to fix.

[marleymar]

i think my little one is a good napper. today i woke him up at 2 hours.
awake 7
E-8:30 6 oz bottle
A- till 9:30
S-9:30-11

E-12 6 oz bottle
A-till 1pm that was pushing it. he was cranky
S-1-3:30 and i woke him

E-3:30 6 oz bottle
A- till 5:30
CN till 6:00 i woke

bottle 7:30
bed 7:45

DF 10pm
may wake at 2am and feed
wake at 4am bottle given

[marleymar]

ok today was alot different.
awake at 7
eat at 8
nap at 9:!5 and that was pushing overtired
awake at 10
eat 11:30
nap at 1215 and that was pushing it again
restless through the nap awake at 45 mins
shh and put down back to sleep

is this normal? for extending A time. is this from overtireness.

[katie80]

So, what happened the night after he slept those long naps?

is this normal? for extending A time. is this from overtireness.

Yes, it is quite normal. It takes about 3-4 days (sometimes up to a week) for their little bodies to adjust. I'm not totally convinced its from OT, as that morning nap today was 45 min and that first A hasn't really changed much (he was doing 2:15 before). Although a 45 min nap can be OT, it's typically UT or could be OS (so really anything, LOL , but we need to take context into account). Did you try to resettle at the 45 min or just get him up?

The second nap most likely was OT. Usually after a short nap, it's best to pull back the A time a bit, so only 1h45m-2hr A would be a little more appropriate. But, he did resettle, so that's a plus.

All this to say, though, his routine is really not too off. You mentioned he might be teething. Have you tried giving him any pain meds to see if it makes a difference in the NWs? That could also be the cause of some of the extra crankiness during the day.

[marleymar]

i'll keep trying for a few days. still waking at 4am. but settling back. my 2 year keeps waking him at 6 or 7 am. he was restless at 9pm after bed at 7:30. settled with pacifier. thanks for your help. should i try some cereal.

[katie80]

should i try some cereal.

I wouldn't... it's more likely to cause tummy unsettledness at this point than really help.  If you think it's hunger, he needs more milk at this point. You can do a cluster feed by feeding him after the CN and then again before bed, which it looks like you are from your first post.  And you're doing a DF, so that's good.  Have you tried feeding at the 2 am wake to see what happens? It could be that he's having a GS and a bit more hungry.

[marleymar]

4am feed

today was the same. woke early at 7 which my 2yo woke him up
feed 8
sleep 915-1030
fed 11
sleep 1230-2
fed 3
sleep 4-5
fed 5:30
bed 7 with bottle
today he could barely do 2 hours each time for activity. he seems to tire very easily. maybe this is just him, i guess time will tell. thanks for your help.

[katie80]

That looks just fine, really. He might be high sleep needs, lucky you. As long as the day sleep doesn't interfere with the nights.

[my18]

i think it might be also bec he is on a 3 hour schedule instead of the 4 hr one.
my dd is 4.5 months and we were dealing with similar issues.  stretching her eating to at least 3.5 - 4hr interval is helping.
also the A part should be at least 1.5 hrs. like everyone said, try stretching even for 10-15 mins at a time. i would say also, even if you have to take him outside or hold him to keep him happy it would be worthwhile.
gluck!