18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2

[MarciaMSPT]

Hey Kellyjs!  Figured would bump into each other again sometime.  I think I'm in the very early stages of the 18mo SR.  No canines yet... so hoping something happens before the other and not both at the same time!  Hugs!

[MarciaMSPT]

Hey Kellyjs -good to see you again (well not really since finding friends here means we are all struggling!)

I think we are slipping fast into this 18 month thing and right on time too! He'll be 18 months this week.  Started sorta hit and miss with EW and such but now, for the last two nights - multiple wakings during the night.  I haven't had this in so long, I'm not sure what to do... the first night I just picked him up and sat in the lazy boy till he fell asleep and then put him back down but doing this 4x in one night (sorry to complain) is not going to go well with this old mum.   Last night I got up twice but the second time I just slept with him in the chair for 4 hours and then put him down and went back to bed. 

I feel like I'm APOP but that's it more to just cope right now.  I fear OT setting in for my little guy and really have not had sleeping for so long just don't know what to do or where to start.  I don't see any more teeth yet so have that to look forward to too sooner or later. 

It's also winter here - my LO does not keep covers on so we dress him with a onsie, sweatshirt, sweatpants, socks and then a warm fleece bunting sort of thing.  I wondering if he is getting too warm?  But last night when I resorted to just sleeping with him in the chair he slept for 4 hours all cuddled in my arms with no sign of distress (had I put him down earlier though, he would have been awake crying about 1-2 hours later.

Our schedule is wake up (or get up) at 7am, nap at 1:30 to 3:00 (often capped) and BT at 8pm which doesn't always happen as far as falling asleep till 8:30pm

How long does this chaos usually last?  I read a recent post about 2-3 weeks? 

So, any thoughts on where I need to be starting?  Thanks!

[trimbler]

hugs MarciaMSPT, thankfully 18mo is a distant memory now but still getting the updates from this thread, it's been going that long! What are his wakings like? crying, in pain, happy chatting? Have you tried sleeping bags? I know they're expensive but really useful. I'm afraid the only bit of advice I have for now (others will chip in I'm sure!) is that when we were going through it we had quite a chatty bunch on here and everyone found that an important key to getting through was to realise that sleep needs start to decrease around 18mo. So there I was panicking over DS sleeping less and trying to get him to bed earlier to overcome OT etc, when all along he was actually UT and needed naps/BT adjusted accordingly. Of course that's not to say that your DS is UT, but have you considered it? I was quite shocked by just how much his sleep needs went down, but after adjusting, the NWs and EWs finally went away. Have you considered nap capping further? Of course you'll want to make sure he is really UT before doing that, consider what he's like during the day, does he seem really OT or is he actually coping ok with the broken nights? Then there's teething too which you know about, often hard to tease out what's what when there's so much going on... anyway, all the best, hope it doesn't last too long for you!

[MarciaMSPT]

Hi Trimbler... so glad someone is alive here   I know how the chatter ebbs and flows here so was hoping that my post didn't sit in cyberspace for too long

My DS wakes at night crying - almost a distressed cry.  If I tend to it right away, he falls asleep quicker, but if I let it go and see if he settles it escalates and then it takes longer for him to settle.

I hadn't considered the sleep needs lessening... really?!?!?!  Did I forget that?!?!  Hum... he's a tad under the norm for sleep needs and has been going down for his 1:30 nap rough... so I will (try as he's tired today but pushing through) to get him down more when he needs to which might be off today. but wondering if I should just let him go down later and continue capping at 3 or push him to go down earlier and cap earlier (that doesn't make sense to me:)

Thoughts?  Thanks a ton for the encouragement.

[Kellyjs]

Hey Marcia, sorry for the late reply. It's been super busy on these boards as of late! And now I don't get as much time to see to them all with whatever is going on with DD.

I had what you were describing for a good couple of weeks. Really distressed crying, if I went in quickly I could ssh/rub back off to sleep. She has been really bunged up and snotty like every time she is teething so I'm unsure if it's teething, SR or both tbh. I do think she's due for a slight push in the morning A time though as she's faffing about before her nap. She's never really done this before, only for 30 mins at BT irrelevant of what time I put her down. Never solved that one since we hit the 2-1. 

If I remember rightly your LO is slightly late with his teething isn't he? Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Boys do tend to be later than girls but it does sound like teeth are jumping around down there with all those WU's.

Coincidently with us, and I don't want to jinx it, but the NW's have gotten a little better this week. I've tried to keep to the same nap time and length. Sometimes I have to wake her, sometimes she wakes early. I have found I need to tire her out more int  he morning, such as swimming or soft play to try and get a decent nap in. But then 2 canines on the lower have popped through so it may be that?

Also, yesterday we were out for the day and she only managed a 30 mins car nap all day. Put her to bed as soon as we got back (after BT routine), she fell asleep in 10 mins and only one really quick NW at 1.30am. Pulled a 12-hr night!!

So, in short I really haven't a clue hun, but I'm in the same boat and sending you tonnes of ((hugs)) xx

[trimbler]

Yes physical exertion can make a huge difference to how well they sleep

Marcia, if he's already struggling to get down for his nap at 1.30 then I wouldn't have thought it worth trying earlier, unless you think it's OT? Your DS has way longer A times than mine did at that age but mine was always low A. I'd agree in principle that offering the nap a little later and continuing to cap at 3 could be a way forward, we had a similar approach which worked for us. Do you think he'd be better off with a longer night? I mean, if he's getting too much A time during the day with a 1.5h nap then capping the nap a bit more would mean he'd need less A to BT and potentially get longer nights. Bear in mind though that stretching the morning A will likely leave him more tired in the afternoon even if you keep the same nap length, it's trial and error! Of course those teeth are probably partly to blame, however I do remember waiting for ages during this phase for the teeth to finish, thinking that once that had happened everything would be sorted, but actually I probably should have tweaked the routine much earlier... Teeth can take a long time and may not be the only culprit!

[Kellyjs]

I'm thinking I'll have to take your advice myself trimbler. Yesterday DD had her 2-hr nap and we were back to quite a few NW's last night  . She was sooo happy yesterday morning after her 12-hr ONS that I'm inclined to think she might prefer that rather than the longer nap. I know what you mean though, we can always blame teeth, SR or something else before we're brave enough to tweak the routine!

Can I ask how long your lo's were napping at this age? TIA xx

[trimbler]

Haha my DS had only just done the 2-1 at 18mo, which I guess was good as we didn't have nap refusal issues! So he was doing 2.5h initially I think, but that fairly quickly went down to 2h, or at least it should have done. But we're probably not a typical example I'm afraid. But I think as a general rule, or at least in my experience (which I realise won't necessarily be the same thing!) that nap will eventually disappear, and night sleep becomes more important, so gradually capping the nap seems like a sensible thing to do. We tended to do things in 15min steps at this age, so whenever nap refusal became an issue we'd push it back by 15mins, often keeping the same length and even BT, but when BT/nw/EW became an issue we'd start by pushing BT back by 15mins, then when the night had got too short (11h for us) we'd cap the nap by 15mins and bring BT forward again to compensate. Guess this belongs on the 1-0 but we started this to get out of the 18mo sr... And continued for over 2 years!

[MarciaMSPT]

Hi Trimbler -

I'm a physical therapist so have a very logical mind for fixing the human body - my DS is no exception but I have to keep reminding myself that it's not quite the same - although I follow your logic with the 15 min increments etc and will keep that in mind.

EBT has never worked for us but then again I've learned that what didn't work 6 months ago sometimes works now.  For now, I've somewhat followed your 15 min. increment already.  I'm putting him down about 15 minutes later and it is going much smoother.  IN fact today, not a whimper.  I'm still inclined to cap it though and see what normal BT holds.  In the past, I've learned the hard way that napping past 3pm spells disaster for a decent BT around here.

I'm not really worried about the long haul as long as I have some sort of clue and that I have found here... so bedroom floor, here I come tonight. 

Thanks again!

Kellyjs - guess we've become buddies on the same ship and are navigating with the same advice!  HOping it works for your LO too!  Hugs!

[trimbler]

Sounds positive Marcia, hope you both have a shorter ride through the bumps of the 18mo SR than we did! Come to think of it, our journey must be a few pages back in this thread... I know the 15min thing does sound a bit contrived but it was useful to have something to give our childminder or anyone else who looked after him, and we found that after the 18mo bumps, we could stick with the same routine for long enough to stabilise - I'm not sure we ever managed to stabilise before then so it was a great relief for my also analytical mind

[Kellyjs]

It is funny how we go through these things at exactly the same time isn't it Marcia? I've got my old oar at the ready 

Made a bit of a boo boo yesterday. I was gardening (unseasonably mild weather here atm) and didn't realise the time and let DD have an extra 10 mins for her nap. Same BT.  Actually fell asleep 10 mins earlier than usual so only 20 mins of playing about. This has resulted in a 5.30am wu this morning! Know it must be related. Managed to keep her in bed until 6.15am. Going to push to 12.45pm for the nap today and wu at usual time so she has 15mins less and see if that works.

How did your BT and night go with the 15mins less?. Xx

[gb18]

Hi all! Just popping on here hoping for a little bit of support. Kelly I notice you are on here too!! We meet again!!! I get some reassurance from that as bad as that sounds, just because I am hoping that my issues are definitely a 'phase' and not me!

My lo has been a bit hit and miss with naps and settling at bedtime over the last month but we have seemed to fall into a routine that works at home. He was tending to have around 4.5 hours A time and then a nap for anywhere between 1hr 20 to 3 hr. I had tended to find that if I pushed his A time too far then he was OT and slept less (1hr 20 or less).

Last few days he has not settled at all for naps, standing up, looking at books, just not settling. Yesterday and today I resorted to patting him in my arms until he was asleep but then he has only slept 40 mins (a time was 6 hours both times by the time he slept). Night time settling has been really hit and miss for about a month and we were tending to have to pat him to sleep in our arms half the time. Have been stricter recently and he had ended up sitting doŵn andfalling asleep by himself. He does not really cry apart from when we initially leave him and then he settles.

Any ideas to help manage this?

[Kellyjs]

Ha ha gb18, I would've thought I had a stalker if it weren't for the fact our lo's are exactly the same age! It does provide some relief though when you pop up with the same issues 

Have you tried adding an extra 30mins onto the A time in the am? Do you think he's going down UT then getting OT? Any canines around?

We've added an extra 15mins onto the first A so are at 6hrs 15mins, then capping the nap at 1hr 45. Problem is she has a cold atm, so don't know if it's working or not. And she's gotten into a habit of waking every hour from 3am, goes back off to sleep but it's still irritating as I don't know what to do! Xx

[MarciaMSPT]

Oh - the joys of this age phase!  We seem to be doing 1 hour naps even though adding about 15-20 minutes onto morning A time.  Wakings at night after 2.5 hours of sleep that requires me to pick up and hold for 10-20 minutes.  I see some snow caps (canines) making their way in but fussiness is on and off - this common for canines? 

Just getting a bit anxious again about me loosing sleep as I don't handle live well at my ripe old age! 

Any thoughts, suggestions, encouragement is most welcome.  Thank you in advance.

[Kellyjs]

I'm thinking definitely canines hun, especially if the routine was working for a while. They do bounce up and down under the gum for a while which I think causes the most pain. These teeth have been by far the worst and most drawn out. It was suggested to me to elevate one side of the mattress, which I did do for a while but DD tends to get a sniffly nose when teething so I do think it helped with that. What's annoying is, when I think it's settled down, stop the meds, we are ok for a few days then the NW's start again. Last night was the first night since before Xmas that we haven't had one, but I'm not expecting that to happen again any time soon  xx