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Offline Tecike

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help with dairy free diet
« on: June 16, 2012, 10:07:54 am »
Hi all!

I have put DS2 on a dairy free diet for 2 weeks now, which has helped loads with his horrendous night sleep. I give him HAF instead of BFs and cut dairy products from his diet. Now, I've been looking for things to subsitute dairy products which is quite difficult here...  :-\

So, what I found is lactose free milk and yoghurt. Are they OK for a dairy free diet? I thought they weren't but now some friends tell me they're fine, and now I'm not sure....  ???

Also, as long as I give HAF, do I need to introduce another kind of milk, like coconut or oat? I have to order them from Hungary, as they can't be bought here...  :-\

One last thing is about calcium - what shall I offer to provide a proper intake?

TIA for your help!



Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 11:29:21 am »
You are right - if you are going dairy free you cannot use lactose free milk or yogurt! Lactose free is just that - the milk sugar lactose has been removed. If lactose intolerance is your issue you might be alright, but if you're looking at a milk protein intolerance or a true milk allergy then it's the dairy protein that's the problem and it's still there.

If your lo is still drinking a fair amount of haf then you don't need to introduce another milk at this point. You can use the haf for drinking, cooking, etc, and it will supply calcium. If you google non-dairy sources of calcium you'll get a whole list of options! We've been dairy free for over 3 years now and have been fine :)
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline deb

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 11:39:05 am »
Agree - lactose-free milk has lactose taken care of, but NOT the milk proteins. We are MPI here and have found we can tolerate yogurt - the bacteria that culture it seem to pre-digest the lactose and proteins enough that we can handle them - but that doesn't hold true for all families by any means. (I make about a gallon of yogurt every week!) That's also just about the only dairy we can manage. The exceptions are butter and unpasteurized milk, which we can't legally get where we live - we have to travel out of state to get raw milk, so we only really get to have it when we visit grandparents. :)

Some MPI folks do OK with goats' milk instead of cows', but I can't have either without tummy troubles unless they're unpasteurized.

For now continue with the HAF as Vikki suggested. As you add in more solids, work in calcium-rich foods like fish and dark leafy greens (kale, chard, spinach, beet greens, broccoli, even lettuce - but not iceberg lettuce if it's even available where you are!) as much as you can. And quality calcium supplements are more widely available now.

As a side note I just thought of, many MPI people also have problems with soy. Apparently the proteins are similar enough that the body can't always tell them apart, so if you try soy products as a replacement for dairy, do so with caution. (We can't do soy either here, so that kind of makes it easy for us. LOL)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 11:40:38 am by deb »

Offline Tecike

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 14:26:54 pm »
Thanks, ladies!

TBH, I don't really know what he has...  :-\ He hasn't got severe symptoms, he had reflux when he was younger, now it's turned into silent reflux and his sleep was horrendous (waking hourly during the night). He hasn't got eczema or diarrhea or any other symptoms, so the drs here don't even consider intolerance or allergy as an option - they simply say he'll outgrow it and I should just put up with bad sleep...  :(
So they won't send him to testing, and I decided to go dairy free out of my own accord and it has helped so far as it changed the nature of NWs. He used to be up standing and crying or crawling/walking around the crib, now he moans in his sleep and doesn't necessarily wake up, sometimes needs only a dummy replug or repositioning.

He drinks HAF 3 times a day and gets solids 3 times, I'll just make sure to offer calcium - rich foods more often. I don't use soy at all, so that's not a problem.

How should I keep him totally dairy free? If I want to know what he's intolerant of, I should after a while slowly reintroduce some milk proteins or lactose and watch for symptoms , shouldn't I?



Offline deb

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 17:45:02 pm »
I'd probably keep him off for 4-6 months before I tried to re-introduce dairy. I hear you about people not taking you seriously if it's not a full-blown allergy that requires hospitalization. We had to eliminate gluten (and we've had GREAT health benefits from it, as we seem to be gluten-intolerant also), and people either give me a hard time for eliminating a whole food group or tell me to chill out since it doesn't send my kids to the hospital. ::)

In retrospect, Josie (my older) had MAJOR projectile reflux which was probably MPI, but nobody even suggested removing dairy from the diet, just treated the reflux. :-\ Wasn't till she was 4 that we eliminated dairy and saw changes, and we rarely have any nowadays.

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 19:37:38 pm »
I hear you about people not taking you seriously if it's not a full-blown allergy that requires hospitalization.
We do have a full blown anaphylactic allergy and sometimes don't get taken seriously >:(

I agree with deb and I would keep him off dairy for at least a few months to get a baseline, and then you can reintroduce small amounts to see how it's tolerated. I can't really advise on that (we've only done one dairy challenge and it was in our doctor's office) but loads of moms here have done food reintroductions and could help walk you through if your doctor isn't supportive.

As far as how, we try to cook as much from scratch as possible (hidden dairy is in a TON of processed foods). It's tough as both my dh and I work 40h weeks, but I cook in bigger batches and freeze for easier future meals.  I also read ingredient lists like crazy and do have an arsenal of dairy and other allergen free foods that I can make in a hurry. It's not really hard, but it does require some planning ;)
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline Tecike

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 09:03:37 am »
Yes, I know it requires planning! Right now I'm reading labels on everything, and cook for him specially, but I think we're doing fine. So I'll wait a few months and see how it goes!  :)

I'm a bit surprised TBH, that even in your countries you're not taken seriously - I thought it was typical only in my little place!  :o

Thanks for help!

P.S. Couldn't find the phrase "cooking from scratch" in my dictionary - does it mean cooking fresh food and not using processed food?



Offline deb

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 09:51:47 am »
Exactly! "Cooking from scratch" means you start with the ingredients and do all the preparation yourself, as opposed to making something out of a box. :)

I also think that being taken seriously depends in part on one's health care. In the States it's almost all private care but the companies want to stretch their dollars to the limit, so we play them plenty but we don't always get back in kind. :(

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 12:25:54 pm »
I get taken seriously by doctors without issue (but Dylan gets hives, breathing difficulties, and vomiting after exposure, so very classic and immediate symptoms) but some people don't understand why they can't kiss him after having ice cream, why I'm asking them to wash their hands after eating something unsafe, why I won't allow Dylan to accept unpackaged food, etc ::)  There's also a lot of misinformation out there - people offer popcorn with butter (but that's not milk!) or yogurt, not realizing that dairy is ALL dairy.

If you google dairy free xyz (recipe, baking, pasta sauce, whatever) there are lots of recipes online.  I've tried lots of new things since this began for us! I often don't cook especially for Dylan anymore, but make dairy (and egg, for us) free meals for us all!
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline Tecike

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 18:18:23 pm »
Oh, yes, I googled recipes - except that recipes in English often have ingredients that are not available here, and I didn't find quite as much in Hungarian or Serbian. So it takes creativity to transform them into our cooking. Nevertheless, I'm managing.  :)

What annoys me mostly are people's reactions when I tell them he can't have dairy products...and I'm fed up explaining myself...  :(



Offline Tecike

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 08:28:06 am »
Just a quick question - what kind of milk should I use for baking dairy free? HAF is too expenisve for that, and I can order coconut, oat and rice milk...am wondering which one's best foor baking like pancakes, or cookies...  ???



Offline deb

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 10:36:34 am »
We've tried rice milk with french toast and it sort of burns - it's grain-based and gets crisy in high heat.

To be honest, we just don't bake, so not sure what to tell you about that; some other folks here might be able to tell you about coconut or oat milk. We love coconut milk as it's loaded with healthy fats, but it can get pricey.

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 12:46:58 pm »
I've used soy and coconut for baking - but I use soy for regular milk and coconut for cream or evaporated milk, if that makes sense? The closest to soy would be oat for your every day baking IMO.
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline Tecike

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 19:09:50 pm »
Thanks ladies!

I will look into what I can buy! :)



Offline Tecike

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2012, 08:55:20 am »
To update where we are:

Vic's been dairy free for 3 months now and sleep has improved loads. He is on HAF 3 times a day and has solids 3 times and snacks twice a day.

We did a blood test at his one year check up and the result isn't so good - his iron is low again, so we have to supplement it. I talked to the dr about his diet, and OMG she still doesn't think he's MPI! Even when I told her how his sleep improved, she said it's OK to avoid cow's milk and give HAF instead, but it surely isn't MPI as he has no skin problems... she also said I could try giving lactose enriched milk...  ???... I didn't understand why, but she kept telling me something about enzimes... and told me I should give him more beans, chicken liver and olive oil... What do you think?

Also, I wanted to ask if there's a possibility that he would only react to cow's milk and not dairy products? I'm wondering because a couple of times he had some food with hidden dairy and sleep was fine on those days. He also had some birthday cake with no reaction. I wonder if I could try giving him some yoghurt to see if he's fine with it....

And thanks for your help; I don't know what would I do if I didn't have this forum!



Offline deb

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2012, 11:06:56 am »
Is he getting red meat in his diet? That's one good source of iron. Liver in general tends to be as well. Legumes are high in iron, but they are also notoriously hard to digest; I'd be cautious about trying them till you know his gut has healed a bit more. Spinach is fairly high in iron as well, although you can't absorb all of it from the spinach; many iron-containing veg also contain compounds to prevent full absorption of the iron.

MPI can manifest in more than one way; eczema/skin problems is just one symptom, while digestive issues can be pretty prevalent in MPI. That's what happens to all of us when we have milk here.

Olive oil is probably OK; we used to mix some into guacamole and feed that to Natalie as an early food.

The only connection I can think of between enzymes and lactose-free milk would be that lactase is the enzyme needed to digest the milk sugar lactose. Maybe she meant lactase-enriched milk? Some people are indeed lactose-intolerant, but many many more are just plain old MPI, and not all doctors really get the difference. :-\  Speaking of enzymes, though, milk comes with its own, most of which are destroyed during pasteurization; unpasteurized milk is the only way we can drink milk in its liquid form in our family. Hard to find here, though, and you have to be super-careful about the farmer if you go that route.

If he's doing OK with trace dairy, since he's been off dairy this long you might want to try some yogurt. It's one of the few forms of milk we CAN digest that isn't raw. The bacterial cultures partially digest the sugars and proteins, apparently.

Offline badpixie

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2012, 12:43:57 pm »
My lo get eczema from cows milk and soy, but we have found that goats milk is fine, so maybe worth a try if you can get it. Tinned fish is great for calcium, iron and good oils. I believe the japanese wean there baba's onto fish because lactose intolence is the norm over there. Sorry, I didn't see how old your lo is, but this might be an easy thing to add to your lo's diet, if not now, then later?
Hayley, mum to Freddie



Offline Buntybear

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2012, 12:52:10 pm »
Good iron sources are red meat, beans and grains - though these ideally should be soaked first to make the iron easier to absorb ( I just read that on google!).

If he is MPI he will be intolerant to all dairy as it is the protein in cow's milk that causes the problem. However the protein changes with cooking and so some baked/hidden dairy can sometimes be tolerated. The same with the process of making cheese/yoghurt I think. Maybe worht a trial of these things? It can take some time t build up so watch very carefully for a week or 2.

Offline Tecike

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2012, 09:09:55 am »
Thanks for tips ladies!

Red meat, beans, liver, tinned fish and some legumes are already in his diet. I feel like there's a good variety in his diet; I'm not sure though, about the quantities he has to eat. He usually eats smaller portions  more times a day, but compared to some other LOs (e.g in the BC) he doesn't eat that much. And I'm not sure if this affected his blood test results... I mean I felt like he was doing fine on variety and even quantity, and I was surprised that the blood test came to show differently...   :-\

Thanks for info on baked/hidden dairy, I didn't know that. By build up do you mean I should offer him cheese or yoghurt every day for a week or 2 and watch out for reactions?



Offline Buntybear

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Re: help with dairy free diet
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2012, 16:38:26 pm »
Red meat, beans, liver, tinned fish and some legumes are already in his diet. I feel like there's a good variety in his diet; I'm not sure though, about the quantities he has to eat. He usually eats smaller portions  more times a day, but compared to some other LOs (e.g in the BC) he doesn't eat that much. And I'm not sure if this affected his blood test results... I mean I felt like he was doing fine on variety and even quantity, and I was surprised that the blood test came to show differently...   :-\

TBH - I wonder how many LOs are low in iron levels? They just aren't getting the blood tests to show it - KWIM? Olly's diet is so restricted he is probably low in a good many things  :P

Thanks for info on baked/hidden dairy, I didn't know that. By build up do you mean I should offer him cheese or yoghurt every day for a week or 2 and watch out for reactions?

Yep  :D