HELP ASAP please!!! 30min nap but not crying and clearly OT!

[~*erin*~]

ack! it's been about 5 days now of 30min napping, waking but not crying, but clearly still tired and yawning. mostly am able to get her to go back down, but usually after almost another 30min, and then I feel like what's the point. she's 2mo (almost 10 weeks). it's so infuriating!!!! i've tried everything i can think of to make sure she gets a good nap, but now i'm just so frustrated

[Jessleigh]

Just want to offer my support cuz I could have written that post word for word. Except my DD is 5.5 months.

On day 6 she somehow broke out of it. I resettled her after 20 mins and she slept for 1.5 hours more. Which hardly ever happens around here.  I think she just was so OT her body finally gave in.
Mine just lays there too when she wakes and just stares forever. So frustrating. I know whoever ends up helping you out will want to know your EASY so they can help.
It'll get sorted soon! Youre not alone! Tons of other posts on here no re the same thing.

[~*erin*~]

funny, i was just reading your post! thanks for the support! sometimes i wish i was one of those "the baby eats and sleeps when it wants" moms so that i wouldn't stress over things like this! haha. but i do know it's worth it! thanks again!

btw, my EASY is roughly
WU 630am
E
A about 1hr-1hr15min
S ... ugh! on a good day I get at least 1.5hrs out of her
and then 3hourly
bed roughly 7ishpm
NF bw1130-130 & 330-5

yesterday:
WU630
E
A
S740-945 (in car seat on way to my mom's house)
E 1000
A
S 1115 - short 30min nap, but not really fussy, wouldn't go back to sleep so AP and held her til she dozed off around 1230
E 1pm
A
S 220-400pm in moby wrap bc i wanted to make sure she napped
E
A
S catnap in sling (usually this one is the sling or wrap or snuggli) 515-545
A
bath and jammies and E at 645
S by 710
NF 1245am & 430am

today:
WU 640am
E 700
A
S 8-830 dozing in and out of sleep in car seat while we packed the car and toddler; actually sleeping in car seat on the drive home until 930
E 950
A *I know this one was a bit too long, but she was taking a really long time to fall asleep, even though I brought her up in enough time for wind down
S1125-1155; tried getting her to back to sleep in crib until 1215, then put her in wrap until 1230, then she was hungry so
E 1230
S 1255

now, a few things - the last week I've had appts almost every day so have been schlepping her around .... that may have done me in. Also, I'm thinking my wind down could be improved - it usually just consists of a diaper change, swaddle, soother, a song and a few pats if she is really wound up etc. usually i leave her for about 5 min to see if she falls asleep on her own, but the last few days she's had a lot of trouble doing that, I think bc she's OT. This has not been fun, especially since I have a super OT 2.5yo as well that we're trying to sort out at the same time! haha. (joys of motherhood!) I do find she gets easily overstimulated especially by her older sister, but I can't keep them separate at all times! (Fiona, the older one, is B-U-S-Y!!! even reading books is just the most exciting thing she could ever do! haha)

I do go by her cues more than the time, however, sometimes I miss them or she doesn't show them, so then I look at the clock for sure (and even when watching her cues, I peek at the clock, and sure enough, she's in the right bracket for A time for her age)

thanks so much for suggestions and help. I"m going to try and close my eyes now too since both girls are sleeping and so is daddy with a headache ... hopefully mommy gets some rest too!

[~*erin*~]

of course, no sooner did i post that last message and she woke up - @ 30min!!!! i cheated, and picked her up so she would actually fall asleep (I know, begin as you mean to go on, but sometimes it's ok to cheat, right?!) and GET some sleep. now do i let her just sleep until she wakes up on her own? i think i might, since she's not had good naps all day....

[~*erin*~]

i can't do this anymore! i'm so exhausted and frustrated! this morning she was very restless around 620 so i thought i'd see if i could get her to settle .... i picked her up and she drifted back to sleep until almost 7. great ,right? fed her, all was good, ran out to get more diapers, fell asleep in car seat, woke when the car stopped so put her in crib (around 815am - perfect A time right?) then she slept for about 20 min and then was in and out of sleep no matter what i did - patting, holding ... finally at 930 i just got her up and am feeding her right now, bawling my eyes out because i am so fed up and i just want to sleep, but how can you "sleep when baby sleeps" if baby won't sleep!!!?!!?! i know i've done some AP lately, but she's so overtired..... help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how long should this A time be? super short I guess. and do i let her sleep as long as she wants? i just don't know what to do anymore, i'm just so tired and feel like nothing i do is working. she's not even really eating right now, so that tells me that she wasn't not sleeping due to hunger. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[*Kara*]

Huge hugs hun... I have posted on your other thread...

I wouldn't wake her at this age regardless of how long she sleeps - she needs the sleep

[~Sara~]

I just want to offer lots and lots of *hugs*, too.  I have SOOOO BTDT with my daughter.  For the first 2 months, all her naps were 35 minutes long--on the dot!  Was it OT, UT, OS, room not dark enough, a noise, hunger, not being able to transition through sleep cycles?  Honestly, I never figured it out.  I cried many a day out of frustration and exhaustion...never got to sleep when she was sleeping.  I truly do understand how you feel.  Fwiw, one day she just started napping long on her own.  I didn't do anything differently.  It was purely developmental.  But, looking back, part of my reaction was due to either PPD or major hormones.  So, please be gentle with yourself...as she gets older and your hormones calm down, it gets easier to take those silly naps in stride.  

Don't worry about APing her to sleep if you have to.  I am 100% serious about that.  You have to make sure that your needs are being met, too, so if you need some sleep, take a nap with her.  She is still so, so, so young that a nap or two a day APOPd will not necessarily mean that it will be like that forever.

As for tailoring her routine, I, too, would let her sleep for a while (I always capped naps to 3h at that age) if she hasn't napped very long for earlier naps.  A time will be based on her cues, if she gives you them (my DD doesn't really give cues ); 15-30 mins shorter than normal A time is standard fare after short naps.  Both my kids have preferred pretty much normal A times, though, even after short naps, so this can really vary.  As fed up with this as you feel--like you need to worry about figuring this out, too, right?!? (BTDT)--just watch her and see if she gives any indication as to when she wants to take the next nap.

HTH a bit.  Those first couple of months with 2 kids were super hard for me, much harder than being a first time mom.  You will find balance again, you will.  As you know from your first LO, there are some days to be savored and others to be written-off.  It's okay if today is more about just getting everyone through...yourself included

[~*erin*~]

thank you so much ladies. I know she's still super young, but it's still so hard. and you're right about the hormones and the PPD/PPMD - those low moods really do not help the situation!
I think after that first morning nap yesterday, she hit a bith of a GS - she barely slept the rest of the day and was nursing from both sides every 2-2.5 hrs (usually 3hrs). The night was ok last night - NF at 1230am and 345am - but then she started getting really restless around 5am, so about 520am, I just scooped her up, got comfy in the chair in her room, and we both dozed back off until 615 when I opened my eyes and realized that my hubby slept through his alarm and my older one was still sleeping (after getting up at 4am for a wander in the hallway!) and they had to get ready and out the door by 7! so, put the little one back in her crib, and it's now 710am and she's just starting to stir - I"m going to take that as a small victory! obviously she needs the sleep - and hopefully I get her A times right today and she has some better naps so that I can get a few winks too. We've got some super hot weather these next few days with a heat advisory, so I likely won't be able to get out for a walk today unless I go very shortly....
Thank god my older one is in daycare for a bit longer - I'd be a total write off otherwise I think!(she'll be home with me in another 6 weeks or so .... we thought we'd get the first 3 months under our belt first with this one!)
Thanks again girls - it's so awesome to have an "ear" to listen and "shoulder" to lean on!

[~*erin*~]

so here's a quick update of our day so far:

after feeding at 730ish am, put her in the sling to go out and water my plants (around 8am). came back inside, and went upstairs to do some low key activity (read a book or two). 1st yawn around 810am - put her in swaddle, turned out light, turned on white noise (fan) and sang our song in my arms. put her in crib around 820 with soother. drifted for a few minutes, only to start squirming etc. patted bum and she dozed off until 833 when the squirming started again with eyes wide open. ended up patting her bum (i don't do the shh - i find she doesn't seem to like it) until 857 when i was sure she was asleep. 917 awake - ugh. tried patting for about 10 min, but i'm so tired so i cheated and APOPed her in a snuggle in the chair; she took about 8 minutes to resettle; put her back in crib at 1015 and had a shower. she's now stirring.

so what's up with that? she gets through the 30min mark, only to not transition at the 45 min i guess if it's not one thing, it's another............... will keep you updated.
so that first nap lasted until 11:10am.

second nap:
went up to her room around 12noon, 1st yawn, read a quick story, swaddle, soother .... a bit unsettled so did the bum pat and off she went around 1220pm. only to wake again at 1240! I had had enough and desparately needed some sleep, so into my bed we went. I just woke now (2pm) and she's stirring..... so the sleeping part is working it seems, it's the transitions in the beginning! hmmmm....

I should mention that I think I may be interferring too early when she does stir/wake during nap times. However, I decided that today was not the day to deal with that due to some obvious sleep deprivation! But I have been watching her -she wakes, eyes wide open, looking around as if to say "hey this is a fun place!" My guess is that her OT is causing this.

so she got up at 230pm ... had to run out and get milk after her feeding, so she was in bed and asleep by 332 with patting for the full 20 min ... only to wake up after 33min! I could seriously cry. what the heck!? she was napping great until we got her 2month shots. i am so furious and sad. I simply CANNOT spend my whole day every day trying to get her to sleep longer, it's getting to the point of being ridiculous never mind what it's doing to my emotional/mental well-being  

420pm now, tried to resettle her for about 10minutes, decided enough was enough, and got her up - hubby and other daughter will be home any minute anyway - and little Audrey here was more than happy to wake up so ... i am just at my wits end and so not enjoying things, let me tell you. sorry for being such a downer. it's so discouraging to know that you're doing everything you can and still nothing works, especially after a week of it ....

[Jaxsta81]

Mama2girls, just want to echo that I'm in the same place as you. My LO only sleeps solidly if in my arms and I'm trying to get him used to sleeping in his cot but there is no way he'd go off to sleep in there in his own, even with dummy and shhh and/or pat. This morning I sat in his room, got him off to sleep at 8.40am, put him in cot at about 9am and he woke at 9.30am crying. Went back to chair to start it again, tried putting him down again and his eyes shot open and he starte to fuss, so I gave in and just sat with him nodding off myself till 10.30am. My neck kills now cos of it!!

Any advice appreciated!

[~Sara~]

So, basically her EASY was like this (just helps me see things laid out like that):

Awake at 7:10
E: 7:30
A: 1h15(?)
S: 8:25(?)-8:33, 8:33-9:17, 9:25-11:10 (2h45)
E: 11:10ish
A: 1h10
S: 12:20-12:40, 12:40-2:30 (2h10)
E: 2:30ish
A: 1h02
S: 3:32-4:05 (33min)

I would say that after those first 2 naps any OT was "fixed."  So, I think that 3rd nap was short due to the A time right beforehand...which I find a little odd since it was a short A time for her age after such a great nap day.  At this age, the average A time is between 1h15-1h20.  Would you say she's generally on the short side for A times, average, or prefers longer A times?  When was the last time she's had an A time increase?  I'm wondering if perhaps she might need a smidgen more.  Not 100% sure about that, but that last A time/short nap are throwing me a bit.  How did she wake up from that 3rd nap?  Crying?  Her normal eyes open and looking around?

Some other questions/thoughts:
1) If she's wanting to eat every 2-2.5h, have you tried giving her a top off feed right before her naps?  I do/did that with my DD sometimes, if I'm trying to rule out her waking from hunger/know she's going through a GS.
2) How dark is her room?
3) Using shh/pat (or your particular version of it) is a work in progress for some babies.  My son finally started going down right away on his own at about 4mo, after using it for 2 months.  My DD never liked shh/pat.   It might take you being there those first 20 minutes or so to help her learn to stay asleep.  As she gets older, she'll get better at it.  It sounds like you're doing that, so I'd really keep with it.  I'd think that by the time your DD1 is home again, DD2 will be able to go to sleep/transition during the first couple of sleep stages much more easily.  She'll be older (almost 4mo), and can do more things like that, developmentally speaking.

That's what I've thought about tonight...I hope it makes sense.

[~*erin*~]

Awake at 7:10E: 7:30A: 1h15(?)S: 8:25(?)-8:33, 8:33-9:17, 9:25-11:10 (2h45)E: 11:10ishA: 1h10S: 12:20-12:40, 12:40-2:30 (2h10)E: 2:30ishA: 1h02S: 3:32-4:05 (33min

yup,that looks about right. she had a feeding around 5pm, and catnap in the wrap (usual to do this) around 535-605pm.
 

At this age, the average A time is between 1h15-1h20.  Would you say she's generally on the short side for A times, average, or prefers longer A times?  When was the last time she's had an A time increase?

Yes, that does seem a short A time, but to be honest, she was yawning 30min after waking!
I'm not too sure lately what she prefers since we've been having such wonky naps ....
Haven't really increased A time, just been trying to be consistent with her cues ....

How did she wake up from that 3rd nap?  Crying?  Her normal eyes open and looking around?

a bit fussy at first, but wide-eyed then happy when she saw me. It's throwing me too and I would have thought the OT to be "fixed" after those first two naps, even with the waking because she did resettle (with my help and APOP)

1) If she's wanting to eat every 2-2.5h, have you tried giving her a top off feed right before her naps?  I do/did that with my DD sometimes, if I'm trying to rule out her waking from hunger/know she's going through a GS.
2) How dark is her room?
3) Using shh/pat (or your particular version of it) is a work in progress for some babies.  My son finally started going down right away on his own at about 4mo, after using it for 2 months.  My DD never liked shh/pat.   It might take you being there those first 20 minutes or so to help her learn to stay asleep.  As she gets older, she'll get better at it.  It sounds like you're doing that, so I'd really keep with it.  I'd think that by the time your DD1 is home again, DD2 will be able to go to sleep/transition during the first couple of sleep stages much more easily.  She'll be older (almost 4mo), and can do more things like that, developmentally speaking.

1) I haven't tried this, except near the end of the day like yesterday, but maybe it's a good idea - she often dozes on the boob though, and then when she comes off is nice and awake again, so not sure how to navigate that...I am worried that it would just knock her right out, especially if it's right at the end of her A time ...
2) It could be darker, that's for sure. We got new windows about a month ago in the kids' rooms, and haven't bought proper window coverings yet because we can't decide what we want ( pathetic, I know! haha.) so we've got a makeshift relatively dark covering, but could be better.
3) yes, this is true. What gets me is that she was going down well for about 2 weeks until her 2month well baby visit and shots last week

after the catnap last night, I bathed her around 620pm, did our story, BF, and she was in bed by 705pm ... didn't fall asleep until about 730 though, then woke again around 830 I think .... then her first NF was at 10pm ( I think she woke because she pooped - I tried to settle her before taking her out of crib, then got a whiff of poo, and sure enough, the little hands went into the mouth and the hungry noises started, so there ya have the first NF). 2nd NF was at 2am, then again at 5am (those are particularly killer! esp with toddler having a nice wake up time lately of 545am ... there's no extra sleep to be had ) it's now 645am and she's stil sleeping, so we'll see how it goes....

thanks so much sara and others - keep the advice coming! It's no secret I could use it!

[~*erin*~]

This morning I sat in his room, got him off to sleep at 8.40am, put him in cot at about 9am and he woke at 9.30am crying. Went back to chair to start it again, tried putting him down again and his eyes shot open and he starte to fuss, so I gave in and just sat with him nodding off myself till 10.30am. My neck kills now cos of it!!

it's so tiring, isn't it? our poor necks big hugs

[~*erin*~]

ok, as Miss Scarlett O'Hara said "after all, tomorrow is another day" .... and so we a new day!

wake up 715ish
E 725ish
A 1hr15min
S 835 am (gave her a little top up (4min BF), did wind down starting at 820, and fell asleep on her own in crib, clearly very tired..... i'm in her room now, and will see how we fare)..... stay tuned

*ok, we made it through the 20min mark .... fingers crossed for the 30 and 45.......
*NOPE! at 905, eyes drifted open and a biiiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch as if she's ready to wake up. so firm hand on the bum and the patting began.... eyes floated open a few more times, then by 907 were closed; big twitches every 2-3min until 9:28 (i'm not crazy, i put a digital clock in her room for just such occasions ) now, she has one arm out of swaddle bc both in seemed to really tick her off; I use a kiddopotomus swaddle blanket. good idea? bad idea? let's see how long she lasts ....

*woke at 10:02.... not bad i guess
E 1015ish - but a bit fussy onthe boob hmmm.... had some spit up, some poop, some crying .... *thumbs up*
A 1hr13min
S 11:13 - didn't even do a wind down; was holding her and walking while on the phone and she started nuzzling in, so up we went, changed diaper, laid her down, and off she went

[honeypinkblonde]

nothing helpful to add really just your not alone.my lo is trying o fall asleep hes so overtired and hardly naps all day 7-10pm is a long day with maybe 20mns break.its so hard with other children so feel for you.i had a really hard time with baby blues this time baby no 3 its finally getting better at nearly 16wks so hang in there,this time shall pass and we shall miss these days i know it doesnt seem that way now but its true.hugs to you my lo is now nuzzled under my neck snoring he will wake when i put him in his cot o just for a few minutes i'll enjoy thgis cuddle and his babysoft smell