8mo, NW.. 75 mins!!

[deepsea]

hi ladies,

My DDs (identical twins, born at 38th week) will be 8 months old by the end of this week. last month we have been suffering with early wakings and we've almost solved this problem by pushing BT from 18:30 to 19:45. still they wu at 5:00am ish but go back to sleep.

one of them started to wake up at 2:15am. she doesn't go back to sleep until 3:30am. l try not the feed but if l don't feed she starts to cry around 3:15am. she wakes up but not cry, makes a noise just enough to wake me up. l take her to our bed in order to prevent wake her twin up. l feed her 3-4 mins, give her paci and patt 10 mins. she looks asleep. l put her to crib, 10 mins later she calls me again, l pat her again, she looks in very deep sleep, l go back to my bed, after 10 mins she calls me again.. it goes like this, around 3:15am l take her to my bed, pat her and usually around 3:30am she goes back to sleep.

as if she has a timer inside that set to being awake 75 mins!!

we have just solved EW problem by shifting our BT from 18:30 to 19:45 but this NW is started.

this is her routine.. she doesn't have any teeth and teething sign yet. l increased the amount of EBM for BT and DF to see the effect on NW but unfortunately no change observed:(

06:30 WU
07:00 BF
08:20 Fruit+Yoghurt
09:15 S
11:40 WU
12:00 BF
13:15 Cereal
15:20 S
16:45 WU
17:00 BF
18:10 Banana
19:45 EBM
20:10 S
22:50 DF (EBM)


how can I prevent this NWs, any idea??

tia

[katie80]

It's likely that the EWs they were having were from quite a bit of daytime sleep and too early of a bedtime.  So, you're right in moving bedtime back, but I wonder if you need to shift the rest of the day as well.  Right now, it's a bit off balance with a shorter A time and very long nap in the morning, then a long middle A time with not as long of a nap. So, the day is quite long still and I wonder if she's in a bit of a UT/OT loop.

What if you tried something like this
6:30 am W
9:30 - 11:30 am S
3:00 - 4:00 pm S
7/7:30 pm BT

[deepsea]

hi katie,

I had made a typing mistake, their routine is like this actually,

06:30 WU
07:00 BF
08:20 Fruit+Yoghurt
10:15 S
11:40 WU
12:00 BF
13:15 Cereal
15:15 S
16:45 WU
17:00 BF
18:10 Banana
19:45 EBM
20:10 S
22:50 DF (EBM)

sorry for confusion.. both of their A time is 3h15m and l am getting 1h20m / 1h30m naps. it is not perfect but not too bad either l think. I will be extending their A time to 3.5h next week.
l shifted all day for them. now they sleep 8pm ish and wu 6:30-7:00am ish. normally their night sleep 10.5hour, l think it is metabolic because it is not possible to extend it most of the time..

what do you think about NWs?

tia

[katie80]

I think they're still OT.  The day is really quite long for 8 mo olds with around 3 hr of day sleep.  If their day starts at 6:30 am and they do ~3hr of naps, I'd make bedtime no later than 7:30 pm (asleep by then) as that's a 13 hr day, which leaves for an appropriate 11 hr night. I actually think 10.5 hr at night is usually OT, at least it always has been for my kids.

The routine makes more sense now, but I'm still a bit confused at the morning A time.  You mentioned it was 3h15m, but as it's written it's 3h45m (which is actually on the high side).  I wonder if you do right around 3.5h like you're planning, the naps might even out a bit.  Although, I really don't think there's all that much wrong with what you're getting right now, as you say.

HTH

[deepsea]

tonight was horrible, after 3 pm none of them slept more than 30 mins without screaming.

I will try early wu tonight, let you know about results

Thanx

[katie80]

  Teeth/illness?

[deepsea]

No, they are totally OK (thank god of course). They don't have any teeth and no sign of teething yet.

I have a question: if they sleep 2 hour on the 2nd nap, they will be up by 5pm, isn't it early to put them bed by 7:30pm? And if we increase A time to 3.5h and start to day by 7am, how will the routine be? If naps are 2h, they will be up by 6pm, what time will BT be?
 

[katie80]

Good questions.

I have a question: if they sleep 2 hour on the 2nd nap, they will be up by 5pm, isn't it early to put them bed by 7:30pm?

Probably... I'd go for 8 pm in that case as long as the rest of the day was decent.  The main thing to keep track of at this age is to shoot for approx 3 hr of day sleep (maybe 3.5, but that's likely pushing it) and an 11-12 hr night (depends on the kid, my guess is yours would be good around 11 hr).

And if we increase A time to 3.5h and start to day by 7am, how will the routine be?

I think it would like something like this...
W 7 am
S 10:30 - 12/12:30 pm
S 3:30/4 - 5 pm
BT 7:30/8 pm

If they sleep for 2 hr in the morning, I'd only let them have the hour in the afternoon.  Cap the nap to preserve bedtime.  If they sleep for just 1.5 hr in the morning, they can do another 1.5 hr in the afternoon, but I wouldn't let it go past 5 pm.  You may find that with a longer morning A of 3.5 hr and a 1.5 hr nap, they may only make it 3 hr for the next A time.  You might have to just tinker with it a bit.  Hope that makes sense.

If naps are 2h, they will be up by 6pm, what time will BT be?

As above, I wouldn't let them sleep past 5 pm.  It gets too close to BT and you'd still rather have a good night over too much day sleep.

[deepsea]

Hi Katie80,

This is the situation:
DD1:
nap1:2h
Nap2:30m
I put her to crib at 18:50, slept at the same time
She woke up before DF and go back to sleep with milk. Then she woke up at 1:45am, slept again at 2:10am. Slept until 6am silently, then another 20 mins in my bed with me
DD2:
Nap1:2h
Nap2:1.5h
I put her to crib at 19:15, she didn't want to sleep, then slept with DH's song at 19:30. She woke up with her sister's scream around 2am, slept again in 10mins. She woke up by screaming may be 6-7 times during night but just replugging the paci was enough for her. She wu at 6:20am.

Still not good but much better than yesterday night.

Let's see how will be the naps today. Any advice for BT?

Thanx again

[katie80]

Wow, nice naps! Was that after 3.5 hr A?  Looks like DD1 might need a little time getting used to the pm time, as she just did 30 min.  Can you try to resettle her at all (probably hard if they're in the same room)?

I think DD1 was a bit OT going to bed, thus the NWs. I'm guessing 18:30 might have been a better bedtime for her. You'd be surprised at how even 20-30 min can make a big difference for OT. DD2 might have been a bit UT actually at 19:15, but it's hard to say for sure as I don't know the times of the naps.  But, it sounds like she ended up going in ok just 15 min later, so not of far off.

She woke up by screaming may be 6-7 times during night but just replugging the paci was enough for her.

This sounds like some type of discomfort to me, rather than being related to routine. You mentioned you don't see any teeth, have they eaten any new foods lately that could be causing tummy issues?

Keep that daytime routine for a week or so now (trying to get DD1 a full nap in the pm) and see if it helps the NWs. How does that sound?

[deepsea]

Hi Katie80

This is how yesterday was;

DD1:
Nap1:1h20m (A time was 3h, she was soo fussy, I couldn't force her one more minute)
Nap2:1h30m(A time was 3h10m)
I put her to bed at 7:20pm,slept through the nigt but she wu at 5:30am. I take her to my bed, she slept 30 mins more by patting her back

DD2:
Nap1:1h50m(A time 3:15)
Nap2:1h20m(A time 3:10)
BT was 7:30pm, after DF she wu by screaming, replugging paci was enough again. After 1:40am she slept until 5:45am without problem. After wu at 5:45 she slept 30mins in our bed as her sister.

I didn't extend the A time since they are already tored from NWs. If things get better, I can try next week.
This is where I had started actually. I was giving them late BT since they wu early just like today.
I need them to sleep until 6:30 at least. What do you think? Am I dreaming?
Thanx again

[katie80]

Can you post the day for each in EASY format, with the times the naps happened? You don't need to put in the E, just the S really. I think it's still OT. The nap lengths are fine, it's just the day might be too long.

So, something like this
W 7 am
Nap 1 10:00-11:20 am
Nap 2 2:30-4:00 pm
BT 7:30 pm

[deepsea]

hi katie80,

l had no chance to connect babywhisperer forum last 3 days. so sorry I couldn't write an answer.

yesterday they hadn't had good naps (we were out for some errands, weekend plans etc), so l put them to the bed at 7pm. they had awake just before DF but then slept until 06:15am (one of them was with me in my bed after 5am) without problem. last 3 days there was no NW but they WU early.

l have started to work today, MIL&FIL&a handler lady will be taking care of them. l hope no problem will be, finger crossed:)

l will be posting tomorrow, thanks again..

[katie80]

Hope it goes well!

[deepsea]

hi katie80

yesterday:
Deniz
WU:06:15
nap1:10:10-11:20
nap2:15:00-16:20
BT: 19:15 slept directly.
NW at 2:15am and slept again at 3:00am
WU at 05:00, slept in parent bed until 06:00am


derin
wu:06:15
nap1:10:00-11:15
nap2:15.00-16:20
BT: 19:25 resisted to sleep until 20:00
STTN but wu at 05:00am. slept in parent bed until 06:00am

so we had NW and EW problem yesterday night but day before day STTN.

l think they OT and need earlier BT. what do you think?

thanks again...