Author Topic: am totally over these dinnertime antics  (Read 7916 times)

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Offline Avery3

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am totally over these dinnertime antics
« on: June 25, 2012, 05:16:17 am »
its been 8 months since weve had proper dinners regularly with this boy. all afternoon long he tells me hes hungry, nags me to the point I nearly explode sometimes. Come dinnertime... he doesnt eat anything.

Ive tried many things, Ive tried cutting out all snacks, offering earlier dinners, later dinners, nothing seems to work, he just wants a muesli bar or biscuits. I dont give in. it doesnt make any difference. Ive tried to patient thinking it will just be a phase that will pass but its been roughly 8 months.
My family all comment on what a shocking eater he is... I just tell them if thats the worse thing about his behaviour then Im happy with that, however it drives me insane on a daily basis.

he goes to bed without dinner almost every single night. tonight was the same and I told him theres nothing else if he doesnt eat his dinner, he got down from the table and went straight to the pantry. I promptly locked it and he cried saying he wanted a biscuit... I feel like Im smacking my head against a brick wall..

any help would be appreciated
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 07:18:38 am »
Wow, I really feel for you, what a hard situation.

You have probably already tried these things, but I'll post them anyway. Eating all together as a family, offering finger food and bowl food, special plate and cup????

Oh also what is his eating like in the daytime? Could you do a larger (dinner-like) lunch, something like MAc Cheese, and then just a sandwich or yoghurt at dinner time? Maybe he prefers to have a bigger meal earlier in the day like they used to in our grandparents era???

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 07:32:31 am »
well we eat together every night as a family, Ive offered all kinds of food, he chooses his own plate and cup etc. His eating is fine during the day, he has a large breakfast, nags me for food till lunchtime (I do give him morning snack etc) he will eat a reasonable lunch and then nag me for the rest of the day for more food telling me hes hungry, sometimes even crying about it but if I offer him an actual meal he will refuse it. If i offer him snacks (fruit/crackers etc) its not enough, he just keeps asking for more and more and more food.

the other annoying thing is that he wakes up early in teh morning because HES HUNGRY!!!!! grrr!! annoys me to no end! first thing when he gets up is "Im hungry, want toast, want oats"
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 08:13:51 am »
[quote author=Avery3 link=topic=232892.msg2533492#msg2533492 date=1340609551
the other annoying thing is that he wakes up early in teh morning because HES HUNGRY!!!!! grrr!! annoys me to no end! first thing when he gets up is "Im hungry, want toast, want oats"
[/quote]
Yes I can imagine this would be SUPER annoying...

So it is just 'dinner time food' that he refuses? Would he refuse the same time of food if it was offered at a different time of the day? Like if it was Lasagne at lunchtime would he eat it then? But if it was at dinner he would refuse it?

Could you increase his lunchtime portion and then offer an afternoon snack as well, and then another 'snack' at dinner time maybe with a drink of milk? It does sound like he is getting enough food, but would be better for you all if he was full at night to get a good settled sleep til morning :P

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 19:53:17 pm »
I can try that, but wont it be sending him the wrong messages? like we all have a dinner meal and he gets a snack or sandwhich or whatever.. so hes getting a different meal to us. it doesnt seem right somehow, wont he learn that he can get whatever he wants at dinnertime while we all eat a meal? I know at extended family dinners that wont go down well, especially when there are other kids his age and they are all haveing to eat the same meal as the adults and being told off for not doing so
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 20:07:28 pm »
I can try that, but wont it be sending him the wrong messages? like we all have a dinner meal and he gets a snack or sandwhich or whatever.. so hes getting a different meal to us. it doesnt seem right somehow, wont he learn that he can get whatever he wants at dinnertime while we all eat a meal? I know at extended family dinners that wont go down well, especially when there are other kids his age and they are all haveing to eat the same meal as the adults and being told off for not doing so
Hmmmm.... hadn't thought of that! Good point :)

So even if he doesn't eat anything since lunchtime he still won't eat anything at dinner? No matter what type of dinner food it is? But if it is a snack food, he will happily eat it?
So it is the dinner food and dinner time that he won't eat  but at any other time he would happily eat it? Sorry for all the questions ;D

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 21:07:31 pm »
So even if he doesn't eat anything since lunchtime he still won't eat anything at dinner? No matter what type of dinner food it is? But if it is a snack food, he will happily eat it?
unless its his fave food, sausages or a particular pasta then he wont eat anything other at dinnertime, he always asks for toast or biscuit or muesli bar

Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 00:10:27 am »
Wow, thats a really tricky one :(

When you dish up his dinner is a big portion? And maybe he feels like he can't finish it? Would it help to serve a small (like tiny) couple of spoons of dinner onto his plate? Then maybe he might think, oh thats just a wee snack, and he may ask for some more like he does if you give him a biscuit. What I'm wondering is whether he feels too overwhelmed by the larger amount, but when he has say 1 biscuit he can see himself finishing it and it is achievable, iyywim?

Other than that I am racking my brains trying to come up with other ideas....

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 03:53:19 am »
good thinking Rizo. I dont usually serve a huge meal but sometimes I do as well ya know what i mean? I will try a really small plate tonight and see if that works, will let you know how it goes :)
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Katet

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 04:41:50 am »
My Ds2 didn't eat Dinner for about 3 years, he has always eaten a big breakfast & Lunch, but after that he really wouldn't eat much - unless of course it was junk LOL.

He is 7yo now & still Dinner isn't a good meal, he knows the rules that he needs to have eaten 4 things from his plate to get more of a prefered food/dessert/other food & will still go to bed with no dinner at least 1/week.

He wakes up early whether he is hungry or not, as on a Weekend he can happily wait for food until 10am... so yes your DS may wake up saying he is hungry, but unless he is under 1yo... it is the food in a 24hour period that matters not the single meal before dinner, so the getting up early & eating early sets a habit rather than actually being hungry. We have a rule in our house... no food before 7am so even though DS2 is often up & reading his book at 6am, he can't go in the kitchen & make a bowl of cereal (he can do it himself) before 7am.  He almost definitely gets up & says I'm hungry because it is habit not so much he actually is so starving that he needs to eat that moment... if you define the times you are prepared to serve meals & offer the food at those meals then he will learn to adjust... still doesn't mean he won't wake up early & will eat dinner, but you can know that he is getting enough food. KWIM,
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 06:33:29 am »
I dont usually serve a huge meal but sometimes I do as well ya know what i mean? I will try a really small plate tonight and see if that works, will let you know how it goes
Great, look forward to hearing what happens.

Some good thoughts from Katet too.

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 06:52:10 am »
served a tiny meal... didnt eat a bit of it, he even asked for carrots, so I put them on his plate and still nothing. he went to bed with no dinner again.....
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

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Offline Katet

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 06:56:55 am »
served a tiny meal... didnt eat a bit of it, he even asked for carrots, so I put them on his plate and still nothing. he went to bed with no dinner again.....

Set a time in the morning & even if he wakes early asking for food, tell him "no Breakfast is at X, you wouldn't be so hungry if you ate your Dinner, you can now wait until X for your breakfast - even set a timer.
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Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 07:09:54 am »
I have done that Kate, he cant have his breakfast until Levi has had his bottle and he has his bottle at 7am, but still he nags me that hes hungry. Ive said he can set up his breakfast (it helps me out and gives him something to do while he is waiting) but hes not allowed it until Levi has finished his bottle. I tell him that if he hadve eaten his dinner the night before he wouldnt be so hungry.

even after dinner tonight he asked for a muesli bar, I told him no, if he was hungry he could have his dinner, nope, didnt want his dinner. I thought that after 8 months of me doing this exact same thing that it would sink in that he wasnt having anything else and he would eat but no
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

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Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 07:28:59 am »
served a tiny meal... didnt eat a bit of it, he even asked for carrots, so I put them on his plate and still nothing. he went to bed with no dinner again.....
Oh no! Good that he asked for carrots though, perhaps the smaller meal is the key though. Maybe try it for a few days and see if there is any improvement? I think it would take more than 1 night for him to suddenly change his habits.

What about having a big plate in the middle of the table and giving him an empty small plate and then serve a couple of things off the big plate to his. Like just 1 carrot and 1 piece of pasta. Then see if he eats that, and if he does offer 1 more little bit of pasta or meat etc.

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2012, 07:45:07 am »
I wonder if I could let him serve his own plate, so give him a pair of tongs and he can put the veges etc on his plate
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

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Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2012, 07:47:06 am »
I wonder if I could let him serve his own plate, so give him a pair of tongs and he can put the veges etc on his plate
Yeah great idea  :D It will make it fun and exciting

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 08:25:53 am »
ok, will try that tomorrow night :)
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Texomamama

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 12:29:04 pm »
Just a thought here, but how is his behavior at the dinner table?  I mean, how does he act irrespective of the food aspect?  Does he talk a lot, get up and down in his seat, ask for drinks, etc?

Maybe in addition to this having to do with food, it also has something to do with getting your attention and keeping the focus on him?

My 4.5 YO is not a big eater.  When we sit down to family meals (which we only do about 3 times per week for a variety of reasons), it seems like ALL my attention is on her... cajoling her to eat, getting her a drink, listening to her talk.....and talk.  DH has had it and informed me last week that there are going to be new "rules" for her at the dinner table, up to, and including not allowing her to talk at all (like that is fair and reasonable).

Anyway, just some other thoughts.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 18:36:31 pm »
Hugs Hun, I have a friend whose lo needs dinner before 5. Otherwise he's too tired/wired to eat it... Have you tried an earlier meal?

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Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 19:23:49 pm »
Sara - I have tried earlier meals, Ive tried as early as 4pm

His behaviour at the dinner table is pretty atrocious, up and down, asking for drinks, playing with his knife and fork, talking talking talking etc... Ive tried just ignoring it, he just continues. Ive even gotten to the point I screamed one day and banged the table i was just so over it. Ive had some people say they just want to yell at him themselves. some days i cannot make him sit in his chair for very long, if I dont pay enough attention he will just get up and walk over and start playing with his toys, or he will get something out of the drawers (like a mixing spoon etc) and bring it back to the table.

Im exhausted with this time of day
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Edesanja

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 20:17:55 pm »
I know you've said you've tried some of these things, but I'll add what we do just in case it helps.

We find our kids eat more if food is scarce. So for lunch (DH usually does lunch with them since he works from home and they love eating with him) if they are having a sandwich or toast, DH will do one piece and eat half himself and give the kids a quarter each. They will eat 1-3 pieces of bread each this way! Same at dinner time. A TINY portion of each thing and then when they finish we exclaim of what good eaters they were and would they seconds? Then we're in a positive mood and they exclaim how hungry they are and they want more.

If they don't want to eat, we offer to put it in the fridge for later (or sometimes they ask!). Then before teeth time we offer the food to them again. Usually they eat it all, but if they don't, that's it until breakfast.

If muesli bars etc are a problem I just wouldn't have them in the house (well not that he knows about if you want to eat them! ;)) and do different snacks. Fruit, veggie sticks, crackers, baking even.
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Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 20:21:47 pm »
A TINY portion of each thing and then when they finish we exclaim of what good eaters they were and would they seconds? Then we're in a positive mood and they exclaim how hungry they are and they want more.
Yeah, such a tiny piece it is literally like 2 bites. And then they are sure to ask for more

Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 21:49:24 pm »
we dont have muesli bars in the house, but he just asks for them anyway. if I didnt give him a big breakfast and lunch he would literally nag me to death, Ive tried it before and Ive nearly exploded from the constant "im hungry, want food"
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

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Offline Katet

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 22:06:18 pm »
we dont have muesli bars in the house, but he just asks for them anyway. if I didnt give him a big breakfast and lunch he would literally nag me to death, Ive tried it before and Ive nearly exploded from the constant "im hungry, want food"

This (& the comments about him being jack in the box) make me think he is like my DS2 & eats 90% of his food before 1pm... from my own experience while you are thinking he wakes early because he doesn't eat dinner (& that is part of why you want Dinner to be eaten) I can say that Biologically speaking he doesn't need that evening meal to sleep in later, it is his body clock that he wakes early & just "habit" that he wakes wanting food, yes he may be hungry because he is used to food at an early time, but that can be changed, but if he is someone who naturally is drawn to waking early, if he eats early it just repeats the habit... eating a big dinner or not won't (from experience & research here) change that... esp since the times DS2 slept late as a 3yo were often when he fell asleep at 4pm he woke at 7am rather than 5.30am.

If it was me, I'd set a timer, for 5mins (or even 2mins), he needs to sit at the table properly for 5mins, doesn't have to eat, but told he won't get other food, then if he wants to he can leave after 5mins BUT he can't interact with anyone at the table (so you talk about things he'd want to talk about) & you get on with Dinner without him. Then I wouldn't serve breakfast until 7.30am no matter what, pretty much so you can maybe break the habit of early waking for food -didn't work for us, he had breakfast at 8am, but still woke at 5.30am.
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Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2012, 23:50:30 pm »
hes not prone to waking early, he usually wakes at 6.30-7.30am but there are times when he wakes at 6am and i guess it just feels like hes asking for a long time for food and its very frustrating.

I will try the timer thing at the table. so while the timer is going do we just act normal? by the way I cant talk when hes gone, its just me and Levi at the table and by then Levi usually wants to get down cos hes finished (that boy has NO issues with eating lol)
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 01:47:50 am »
Can I suggest the book "French Kids Eat Everything" to you?  I've recently read it and love it.  It doesn't address your situation 100%, but I think it would have some ideas to help you. 

I would personally eliminate all the hot button foods (crackers, museli bars, etc) from the house so that they are not an option and he knows that. 

I'd offer 3 meals a day + 1 afternoon snack and never allow any food at other times.  If he whines about being hungry, I'd cheerfully say, "Oh, good, (insert meal) will be served at (insert time).  Sounds like you'll be ready to eat.  Let's look at the clock to see when that is." 

It sounds like the whining is really about engaging you in a power struggle and key to conquering that is to refuse to engage by staying cheerful and matter-of-fact. 

Offline Katet

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 02:18:42 am »
It sounds like the whining is really about engaging you in a power struggle and key to conquering that is to refuse to engage by staying cheerful and matter-of-fact. 

I agree, actually it reminds me of a time when DS1 was about 3 & DS2 1yo & there was something going on & it was persistantly annoying me & someone said "yes but he knows he gets your attention" & it was at that point I realised that sometimes it was just about that the thing they "know" will engage you & kind of get an interaction going & they are the "focus" when other things in the day they aren't.

Another thing my sister used to do, was have a container of chopped veg & if her children said "I'm hungry" she'd say well you know it isn't a meal time but there are veg in the container... if they were hungry they ate if they weren't they waited.
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Offline Rizo

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 03:58:56 am »
Another thing my sister used to do, was have a container of chopped veg & if her children said "I'm hungry" she'd say well you know it isn't a meal time but there are veg in the container... if they were hungry they ate if they weren't they waited.
Great idea!

I'd offer 3 meals a day + 1 afternoon snack and never allow any food at other times.  If he whines about being hungry, I'd cheerfully say, "Oh, good, (insert meal) will be served at (insert time).  Sounds like you'll be ready to eat.  Let's look at the clock to see when that is."
This is what I do when DS1 asks for food 20mins after eating. Usually works quite well and teamed with the bowl of veges as snack idea could be a winner.

Offline creations

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 08:26:46 am »
Avery, I know you have tried so many different things, and it must be really really frustrating for you.
A couple of things I've noticed with my own DS (OK he is younger but maybe it helps?):
- he will say he is hungry over and over but not actually be hungry, it is his way of trying to push the day on.  So for example if he feels tired in the afternoon he will keep saying he is hungry but once he is in his high chair he might eat nothing or one tiny sip of milk then indicate he is finished and try to get out of his chair.  I've worked out it is because he knows the order of our routine.  After his dinner/supper there is a play time (and time to go toilet) and then his BT routine begins.  So basically he is trying to hurry BT along.  I have noticed this in other ways too.
- he will fidget and show undesirable behaviour at the table if he needs the toilet.  I now ask him to have a try just before we sit down to eat so I know his bladder is empty and he is comfortable enough to eat.
- he eats most of his daily intake before 3.30/4pm.  Because of this we have our main meal (the 'family meal') at 3pm.  So, a reasonable to large breakfast, large morning snack (like an early lunch), then nap (wakes at 2.30), main meal at 3pm.  He eats well for all of these unless there is another problem going on.  Any asking for food after this I have worked out is more to do with moving on the day rather than real hunger (as above).  At 5.15 he gets supper which I hope one day might become the main meal, at the moment it is a small snack and a sippy of milk but like I said he doesn't eat much at all.  I keep offering at this time to maintain a dinner time habit and to ensure he has had an opportunity to eat if he is hungry.  He often has a piece of fruit or a quarter of crumpet or toast.  In many ways it seem not worth making but I do.
- his behaviour at the table and his ability to settle to eat is not good if he has not had enough attention and mummy time prior to the meal.  At times I've been so busy and hurrying to get the meal ready that he has been playing on his own and asking for attention and/or asking for food (or asking for food to get attention) and I just focus on getting the meal done thinking he is hungry...then he eats nothing and is unhappy at the table.  I now try to sit with him and give some individual attention just prior to the meal, read a book or something, or include him in the food prep, some way to fill his love cup before we eat.

I am always reminding myself that when a LO is attention seeking it is because they need attention.  We have to work out what sort of attention they are lacking.  It could be that he is asking for food all day because this is a way to get your attention, maybe allocating ten mins for some one on one play (a game of his choice, not yours) would fulfill his need for attention rather than having this battle over biscuits/hunger/not eating.  The thing is once LO is nagging for food it is draining on our energy and we most likely don't feel like playing or giving positive attention so for this reason I try to remember to quickly change the focus of attention and encourage both of us to be playful instead.

I think like pps have said LOs don't really need to take their food in in the evening, so it looks to me like there is some other issue with him nagging for biscuits rather than hunger.
xx


Offline Avery3

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 04:48:19 am »
well im happy to report a success tonight!!! I let Caleb serve himself with his own little tongs, he put two chicken patties on his plate and 2 pieces of Kumara! then he ate them all!!! even though the Kumara had gone a little cold and he screwed up his face  while eating it he still at the rest of it, then he asked for more!! he picked two more chicken patties (they are about the size of the palm of my hand) and ate them. When I had asked him at the beginning of the meal if he had wanted any he had looked at them and said no, yucky. but when I suggested he pick his own he was more than happy!!

this is the most hes eaten at a dinnertime meal in so long. Im gonna try it again!!!
Why do birds sing in the morning? It's the triumphant shout: "We got through another night!"

DS1 -January 2009, DS2 -July 2011

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2012, 05:26:22 am »
Wow that is amazing, great work! I'm totally going to remember this for Z....he is a fusspot at tea too but still a bit young to try x
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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2012, 06:46:31 am »
Great news!
These LOs keep us on our toes eh.
So pleased for you.
xx


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Re: am totally over these dinnertime antics
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 07:16:50 am »
Wow, well done you and Caleb!!!! :D Such great progress.

I bet you are feeling relieved and much less stressed :)

Fingers crossed for another night the same tomorrow!!!