Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2

[BrandyM]

Hello Ladies,

My DS is 26 weeks now and probably ready for the 3-2 transition, as he's been waking up very early (like 5 am) and won't go back to sleep.

Now I know early wakings is one of the prime symptoms that LO is ready, but how do you get to space out the 2 naps when the day starts so early and you bring forward BT?! I'm stuck in this loop where I have the first nap early in the day because of the early wake up, and then the afternoon nap ends around 3 pm, so an OT baby until a 6:30/7:00 bedtime. Next morning, it's early wake up again and I can't seem to get out of this "groundhog day" loop!

Our day looks like this:
5:00 Wake Up
8:00-10:00 Nap
1:00-3:00 Nap
6:45 Bedtime

I've tried squeezing in a catnap before bedtime but DS is not interested, so the last A time is about 4 hours.
Any suggestions?

[Martini~]

Hi Brandy! Maybe you would be interested in starting your own thread? There is always more eyes to look at the problem. If yes, please start a new topic in relevant Sleep Board or just let me know, and we will take care of spliting your post to a new thread.

Q to you: you are writing about your LO being ready for 3-2 transition but you already are on 2 naps per day so I am not quite sure if I git it right. I would think that you do not like waking at 5am:) but that's not you are asking about.

[BrandyM]

Ooops, did I post on the wrong thread?
Anyways, I will start a thread perhaps in the Naps section...

As to your questions, Martii85, I DEFINITELY would not like to wake up at 5am! 
We are on 2 naps a day, but we're in the "process" of a 3-2 transition because the second nap happens way before BT, and I don't know how to get the day to adjust.

It's also touched upon here: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

During the transition period you will get to the point where there isn’t time for the CN- but the time to bed is too long- leading to an OT baby!!

It's suggested above to either cap the CN or do an early BT. I can't seem to shorten the CN because LO fights it, and an early BT leads to an early wake-up in our case (which in turn, leads to another early nap day, etc).

Yesterday, our day looked like this:
 6:00 Wake Up
 8:45-11:15 Nap
 2:15-3:00 Nap
 6:30 Bedtime

Since DS woke up at 6 (and not 5), I was so hopeful the naps would be pushed back later in the day, but still his last nap ended at 3. Today he woke up at 4:40am! We'll probably have to do a 3rd nap today to make it till the end. *sigh* I don't know whether keep at the 2 naps a day (and 4 hour A time before BT) or cut the naps shorter than 2 hours and squeeze in a 3rd nap. Any thoughts?

BTW, I am also wondering about your question too. What is a good nursing routine right now? We're not quite at the 2 solids a day yet. With the 3 hour A time and 1.5+ hour S time, the 4 hour EASY doesn't fit!

(sorry to digress, but I live in Warsaw too! I'm not Polish, just living here at the moment. So happy to see a BW mom in the same city!!)

[Martini~]

So firstly hello to my Warsaw friend:)))! Regarding naps my quick thoughts would be:
- I would come come back to 3 naps per day for couple of days, maybe a week or two to come back to reasonable 7am WU
- I would try to sum up his daily sleep to max 3h as more can steal from night sleep
- I would cap the first nap at 30-40min mark as long morning nap may cause EWU
- on the second one I would let him sleep as long as he wants (2h ideally)
- on the third one I would do 15-45min depending how much you think he will need (how he slept on second nap and when it ended)
- remember to shorten his A time before second nap slightly as first nap will be shorter

When you will get to 6-7am WU for a week or so and you think your son will handle 3h A after a good nap I would try the routine with 2 naps (but around 3h together not more). WDYT?
If you have problem with settling for a catnap, for this short period of time I would APOP a bit. Pram, bouncy chair, car seat - whatever helps him.

[BrandyM]

Thank you so, so much for the response Martii!
I totally didn't realize, but yeah, perhaps we would need to go back to 3 naps to fix the EW.
Over the weekend, I was observing to see how this goes. When he did 3 naps, he actually woke up at 6:30 the next day! I'm going to try to continue this for a bit.

Thank you again! And hope to see you around the BW boards! 

[Martini~]

Your welcome Brandy:).

4h of daily sleep can be a bit too much for a 26wo and that may cause some EWU. But of course if your LO can handle A shorter than 3h it's difficult to have 2 naps of only 1.5h and still manage 12-13h days without OT kid. Another reason for EWU can be OT at BT - but here you may also help with a very short catnap around 4/5pm (even 10min helps!).

Fx for more common WU at 6-7am!

[Glitter2707]

Hi all! I wonder if I need to be posting here now...
Caitlin is a good sleeper and night time sleeping is no issue, 7-7.30 ish always. Her day time naps have taken some playing with - thought we just had it sorted with this

Wake & eat 7.30
A - 2hr
S - 9.30 - 11.30

E 11.30
A - 1h 45
s - 1.15 - 3.30

E 3.30
A - 1h 40
S - 5.10-5.45

A until bedtime at 7pm

And ths worked brilliantly! Now, however, she is refusing to sleep for that last nap... Lies there talking to herself for about 30 mins before crying. I usually have to wake her from her second nap - should I let her go as long as she wants and then not bother with last nap?

Why is it that just when you think you've got everything sorted things change haha.

Oh and she is 5 1/2 months old by the way and has always been high sleep needs.

Thanks in advance!

[Martini~]

Hi!

You have two options and you have to evaluate if your DD is ready for transition. She was until recently sleeping 2+2:15+0:35=4:50 during day and 12,5h at night (btw, woow - she is for sure HSN:D). Mine if slept more than 3h at that age was waking at night:))).

To be on two naps (even if both are long 2h+) you have to touch around 2:30 A time in your case (7:30 WU and 7:00 BT). And you are now at 2:00, 1:45 and 1:40 and even 1:15 just before BT and still having good naps. So what you could try to do is very gently push her A so your day would like more likely like that:
7:30 WU
Nap 1 9:30-11:30
Nap 2 14:00-16:00/16:15
BT 7:00.

As not to OT your dd you should increase A let say 15min every 3 days and generally use your judgment. If she wakes early from her nap suddenly it may mean you pushed too much. Until you get to the moment when she is ready for 2 naps, I would try to APOP a catnap. My DS had refused catnap since 3wo:))) no matter if it was 4th or 3rd nap:))). So you can take her for a walk in a pram, use a carrier, or even lie down and BF and let her sleep on boob/after boob for a while. Car ride is also useful. Usually kids do not make bad association here as the reason they don't want to settle here is not lack of ability to settle independently but they are just not tired enough. So for the time being you have to "trick" them. To assess how long it shoulf be, look at her overall day sleep so if she slept very well on 2 first naps, give her very short catnap (you have to judge by yourself what's is working for you - for us even 10min is making miracles but DS is LSN), and when the naps were shorter, let her sleep for longer spell here. Just take care her total daily sleep is not too much.

HTH

[Glitter2707]

Ah thanks for all your words of wisdom Martii, you're a star!
I am going to try gradually increasing A time I think. APOP is hard - her favourite place to sleep is in her cot! Going off a walk in her pram wouldn't work, she's not really a fan of the carrier, or being held anymore.

I wish I could breastfeed her to sleep but although she is EBF it's all from a bottle as I am exclusively pumping (roll on 6 months, so ready to stop putting my nipples in a vacuum!)

Will push A time & see what happens. Thanks again for your help

[jessmum46]

Hi, not sure if anyone is chatting here currently but DS is 23 weeks and we're on the road to the 3-2.  Can't believe I was on page one of this thread with DD!  We aren't doing a standard EASY routine as it just didn't work with a toddler, so giving set naps a go instead.  Just tweaking times in an attempt to be able to eliminate the CN but not quite there yet!  So we do WU 6.30ish, 8.45-9.30 capped nap then it's been 11.45/50ish uncapped but getting UT length naps on that now.  Planning to push that to 12pm and hope for 2h plus so we can do a very short CN or EBT rather than a 'full' CN.  Looking forward to chatting!

[trimbler]

Hi Katherine and anyone else?? Not quite sure what's been happening this week but after a fairly good week with lengthening naps and good nights, we seem to have fallen down an OT hole! Wondering if 3-2 is approaching, but may be teeth, digestion, etc etc.... So we have a set up time in the morning (7am) and set first nap due to preschool drop off (pd 9.20ish) and sometimes have to wake from that at 10.45, other times she's already woken a little earlier, but can't go later due to preschool collection. Last week I thought we were approaching 2.5h 2nd A time since she was starting to struggle to go off with 1pm pd, so we've been aiming around then this week, however we've just got 30mins both days with no resettle at all despite trying for ages, her seeming really tired and wanting to go back to sleep but just not managing. Then after a CN, she's still really tired and has 30/45min post BT NWs, often wakes just before df time and doesn't resettle until the feed but sometimes still doesn't settle easily after, has been waking at some other point between 1-4am (no feed) and then chatting away any time from 4-5am, with hardly any more sleep. Not sure how much this is digestion related as she's gone back to night time poos since starting a tiny amount of solids? Also not sure whether I need to push tht 2nd A time further to increase chance of resettling or pull back so she can catch up on sleep? But either way I've found the nights are worse if I successfully resettle the 3rd nap (due to having had a poor 2nd nap), so I guess I need CN and EBT in that case? Sorry for the waffle, can anyone relate and wwyd?

[trimbler]

Ps prior to this OT hole when she was doing a decent two naps, she was taking much longer to settle for the third to the extent tht I was about to just get her up and do EBT when she fell asleep, but tht just made the day too long!

[Frankiefrankiefrankie]

I have noticed no one has posted since dec last year.. Is this post still open for suggestions?.

[trimbler]

It is if you want to chat... Although I personally won't be around in a couple of days...

[Amcivor]

We are struggling with this right now if you want to swap stories! I have a post on general sleep issues board as there were so many probs with battling bedtime and EMW that I didn't even know where to post!