Author Topic: Will W2S work for my 10month old?  (Read 15071 times)

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Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2012, 02:23:19 am »
She woke again tonight but after 60 minutes...right after I said to DH "she didn't wake today!". 

Today was not a routine day.   Nursed back to sleep at 330 (20 min) and 600. (15 min).   Woke for the day at 730.   DH let me have some "me time" and run errands, while he had daddy daughter time this am.    Nap was supposed to be at 1115ish, but he took her out in the stroller at 10 to go to the park, but she fell asleep at 1015, so he strolled around until 1130 when she finally woke.    It actually worked out better timing wise as we went to a wedding showe that afternoon, and she napped in the car on the way to a birthday party: nap 2 was 345-430 in the car.   It took her 20 minutes of fussing in the car before she fell asleep...didn't want my pinky, didn't want a bottle...nursed before we left.

Got home late from the party, of course.   Fussed a bit on the hour long drive home 715-815) but did not fall asleep.   Rushed through bath etc ( she seemed wide wake) and then nursed to sleep.   Was asleep in crib by 840, but woke around 10, and now is quite upset.
   

Just wish she would stay asleep!

Offline katie80

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2012, 12:57:02 pm »
That's really common on days like that, she's OT and OS, likely.



Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2012, 00:35:17 am »
How do I get her back on track?!   

Today was worse than yesterday... Except now she's refusing to nurse which she has never done before.


Last night, after she woke at 10, she didn't want to nurse, just cried really hard and clung to my neck.    Finally gave her Advil at 1030, and rocked her to sleep by 1115.    She woke at 500 and nursed for 20 min.   Woke for the day at 800, but again, didn't really want to nurse.

Tried to get her to nap at 1200 (we were at church, and this was the earliest we could get home) but she screamed when I tried to nurse her, and she got really worked up...tried to get her to nap for almost an hour...tried Advil and everything.   Finally gave up at 100.   Played with her/ tried to feed her more lunch until 130, and then tried again for a np/nursing.    No luck.  At 145, took her out in the stroller in hopes she would fall asleep.   It took 20 minutes, but she finally fell asleep at 205, but woke at 235kept strolling another 15 minutes in hopes she would fall back asleep, but no luck.   We had to go out again this evening, and she was great while we're were out, but she got upset during the car ride home.    Tried to feed her a bit more solids at 700, as she hasn't eaten much all day, and bath and Advil at 715.   Again, did not want to nurse, but seems content enough right now in the crib rolling around with her bear and babbling away.   I'm sitting here in the dark beside her crib.   

Now that I've had some time to reflect, maybe  she doesn't want to nurse because last night, she bit down hard on me and I yelled out loud as a reaction (it really hurt!) and that scared her?    I pumped at lunch and she took some in a sippy cup, but not much.   

I'm going to take her to the doctors tomorrow just to check she doesn't have an ear infection or something else going on.   This screaming inconsolably is totally out of character.

Offline katie80

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2012, 18:18:12 pm »
Good idea to take her to the doctor to make sure everything is ok.  I've nursed two babies to 12mo+ and never been through a nursing strike, so unfortunately I don't have any words of wisdom there.  But, you are always welcome to post on the BF board and will get great advice and support.  It could possibly be from your reaction to the bite, I do have experience with that... it hurts! (((Hugs))), I know it's no fun to go through. 

As for sleep right now, you'll probably have to find another way to AP her if she won't feed to sleep. :-\ It might be a few rough days, but she'll get back on track eventually, they always do.



Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2012, 02:27:48 am »
Thanks Katie.   Apparently, she's healthy.  

So, last night, finally fell asleep around 900.   After rolling around in bed from 730-800, she started to cry and get upset, so I picked her up, and that seemed to make it worse?   So I put her down, and stayed beside her crib, trying to pat or let her suck my pinky.   Tried that for about 20 min, then picked her back up and ended up rocking her to sleep, with my pinky in her mouth.   Not ideal.    She woke 30 minutes after that, but I nursed her back to sleep (I really wanted to get some calories in her!) She fell asleep, and stayed asleep until300, when I nursed her another 20 minutes, and up for the day at 700.    She did nurse for a bit at 700, but refused the rest of the day, so I ended up pumping and giving her some in a sippy cup.    During the day, she drank about 150ml (5oz).

She was generally quite happy during the day.  Played with grandma, and we stayed in.  Hit a new milestone: Stood unassisted for about 30sec pretty consistently.   Nap 1 tried to start at 1040, but was 1100 by the time she fell asleep.    Again, didn't want to nurse, so put in crib, and I sat beside her until she got fussy, then she sucked my pinky for 10 min, and then fell asleep.   Woke at noon.   Nap 2 ... Started at 345, but again, didn't fall asleep until 400, and woke at 430.  

Started bath at 730, for 745 bedtime.   I put her in crib, and she was babbling away, until I noticed she had pulled herself up in the crib, despite having her bottom half swaddled...I panicked and took her out of the crib as the mattress was still on the middle wrung, and if she managed to lean forward enough, she might be top heavy enough to topple out.   Got DH to move the mattress down(took almost 30 minutes) but I felt better.   Meanwhile, DD as screaming up a storm.   Gave her some Advil(just in case?) at 830, and tried to rock her like I did last night, but she kept pushing me away.   Put her in the crib at 845, despite her hard crying, but it really wasn't any better if I held her, and she was just getting angrier if I tried to pick her up.    I ended up just sitting beside her in the dark, trying to pat her, or let her have my pinky (much harder now that the mattress is all the way down, and I am quite short!).    Eventually, settled, and sucked my pinky until she fell asleep at 940.   Now, I'm not sure what to do re: waiting to try to nurse overnight, or just pump (will be uncomfortable if I don't nurse by midnight, but also afraid that the minute I finish pumping, she'll wake, wanting to nurse!).  

DH is off for 2 weeks vacation and is totally on board with helping me in any way to get her sleeping independently, and through the night.   After the hour or so of crying these last couple of nights, I'm feeling much more resolve as well.    

I'm feeling like, if holding her and nursing her isn't working anyways, then I'm willing to try something else, even if she cries.   I just don't want her to feel totally abandoned!   Now's the time to do it, as DH doesn't have to be up at 5am, and will be able to watch her if I need to nap during the day.    

Please walk me through this!  

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2012, 14:53:01 pm »
I would recommend pd. There is no pick up in it at this age. You just put her down each time she cries and pulls up. You can use your voice and even a firm hand on her if that seems to help. My ds2 actually responds better if I sit next to the cot and just say "it's just sleepy time" in a soft, pleasant voice every time he cries I gently lay him back down and shush him a second or two and then go back to sitting and using my voice. You'll have to couple this with gradually leaving the room.
Do you think this might work for you?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2012, 15:20:41 pm »
Yes, I think this is what I will try.    last night, she woke at 1100, nursed for 20 minutes (thank goodness!) and again at 330(20 minutes) and again at 630(10minutes).   Up for the day at 730.   Still refusing to nurse, though, and I was only able to pump 50ml (2oz) to give her on a bottle this morning.   A bit concerned as her diaper was dry this morning, and is usually soaked.     Doctor said to bring her back tomorrow night, if still not wetting diapers.  Was grumpy when woke this morning.   Usually quite happy to see us.

A few questions:   I'm assuming it is easier to do this for every nap/ bedtime, rather than just bedtime when going through the initial training, so no strolling or driving to nap, if possible?

Should I be trying to leave the room when she's quiet, or wait until she's asleep before leaving?

Is it ok to still let her suck my pinky, if I want to eventually wean her from this?   I don't actually mind it, for now, but eventually...

What do I do if she doesn't end up napping within an hour or so of trying?   

Should I be in the room when she is fussing, but the crying isn't escalating?

Should I be the one who does this or will it confuse her to have DH try as well?

How do I prevent OT during this phase?

Just started nap 1.   11:10  Offered breast, and refused :( Put her in crib, swaddled with bear.   She turned and fussed a bit, but not all out crying.    Sat beside crib, let her have my pinky at 1115ish...sucked for 5 minutes or so, and now she's asleep?!?    I'll let you know how long she stays asleep, though.

Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2012, 16:03:32 pm »
Yep,   Woke at 1200...40 min sleep cycle, and couldn't extend.   Woke really grumpy again :(

Offline katie80

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2012, 16:19:53 pm »
Oh, bummer. It sounds like she's OT.  Do you think she's not feeling well?  Do you see anymore teeth coming? 

I agree with Ali, PD with gradual withdrawal will likely work very well for your situation.  Let me see if I can't answer your questions...

I'm assuming it is easier to do this for every nap/ bedtime, rather than just bedtime when going through the initial training, so no strolling or driving to nap, if possible?
Yes, consistency and frequency are going to be the best tools you have right now.  Do your method for every nap and bedtime.  However, I'm a firm believer that's it's much easier to sleep train a baby that's not entirely OT, so if you get a couple short naps, I think it's worth it to APOP a nap here and there either in the stroller or car.  But, at BT and NW, stick strictly to your plan.

Should I be trying to leave the room when she's quiet, or wait until she's asleep before leaving?
At this point, you'll wait until she's all the way asleep before leaving.  After a few days, you can start to get closer to the door and use your voice to settle her from there.  After another few days, stand at the door and do the same.  Eventually, you'll be outside the door and can just go in if she needs you.

Is it ok to still let her suck my pinky, if I want to eventually wean her from this?   I don't actually mind it, for now, but eventually...
To be totally honest, I wouldn't.  If you eventually want to wean her from this, you might as well do it now, esp since your DH is home to support you.  You don't really want to replace one prop (the breast) with another (your pinky), because ultimately that's not going to get you anywhere.  If she can't settle herself to sleep at the beginning of a sleep time, she can't do it in the middle of the night either.

What do I do if she doesn't end up napping within an hour or so of trying?
Do some quiet activity, really low key and try again in an hour or so.  This is also the time where if you have to APOP somewhere to get some sleep into her, I'd do it.

Should I be in the room when she is fussing, but the crying isn't escalating?
Yes, if you're doing GW, you stay there until she's asleep.  Don't make eye contact and if she's fussing don't say anything, but just be a presence in the room.  She gets upset when you try to leave, right?  So, there's no use in playing that game.

Should I be the one who does this or will it confuse her to have DH try as well?
No, certainly DH should also play a role in the sleep training.  Tracy suggested parents trade off every two nights, so that one parent isn't always doing it and always tired.  Also, it will help if he's able to settle her, so you can have a break in the future.  The only 'rule' with this is that the parent that starts the sleep time, finishes the sleep time.  So, he can't come in and 'rescue' you, if she's not going to sleep.  That will confuse her and likely lengthen the whole process.

How do I prevent OT during this phase?
It will be hard to prevent it completely, but use the APOP naps as I've described.  Try to stay as close to her normal routine as possible.  Do early bedtimes when daytime sleep hasn't been enough.  And, since she's still nursing well at night, I'd just continue with that for now rather than fighting a bunch of OT in the MOTN.  Once she gets on track during the day, you can start to work on the NF/NW.  Getting her the longest nights possible will help the most with OT.

One last thing... is there a reason she's still swaddled on the bottom?  If it's for warmth, you can always use a sleeping bag.  Otherwise, I think it might be best to remove that, as you don't want her to get stuck in it, if she's trying to stand up, etc.  But, it's your choice, if you don't think there's a safety issue in it.

Good luck, hon.  You can do it!



Offline *Ali*

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2012, 17:35:55 pm »
I'm not sure where you are but here in London it is hot and so nappies are not very wet at all and even pees in the potty are small and yellow even with regular drinks. Also my ds2 is not keen on me holding him to nurse in the weather and isn't spending as long at the breast. I find he especially hates it when I have a bare arm which inevitably gets sweaty if his head lays on it to nurse. I find it helps to lay a muslin between our skins so it doesn't get sticky and sweaty. Just thought perhaps some of that may apply to you guys too.

Oh and I agree with everything Katie said in answer to your questions ;D if you need to AP then car or stroller are less disruptive than the type of AP where she is sucking to sleep as the nap is almost incidental to the ride rather than when she is fed or sucks pinkie itms?

Good luck.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2012, 23:16:46 pm »
Wow, thank you for the detailed response, and encouragement.   We're in Canada, and it is hot here, but I really think the nursing strike is from being startled when she bit me... She has a pretty good memory, and even when I am in a different room, not on the nursing pillow, and just show her my bare breast, she shakes her head "no" and tries to get away.  My doctor suggested we stay in the air conditioning and try to keep her hydrated with whatever she'll take...she's eating watermelon, at least.   has had another 50 ml of EBM since waking from nap 1 at noon.

I feel like she will never be "not OT" :( Even when I APOP in the stroller, we only get 30 min.

So for nap 2, I put her in the crib at 350, she fussed for 5 minutes, took my pinky (I didn't read your posts until just now) for 2 minutes, and fell fast asleep.   None of the screaming like she did last night.   Stayed asleep for 40 minutes....usually her nap 2 is only 30 minutes.

The swaddling of her bottom half is with a "swaddle me" bag...it has Velcro around the torso, and her legs are in a bag.    I started using it when she was little to keep her arms in, and then swaddled her arms out...I kept using it as it keeps her legs from getting tangled in the crib, as I don't use bumper pads.   She seems to like it.


Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2012, 01:11:07 am »
Ok...need some reassurance that eventually, she won't cry this long and hard!

Bath at 730, story, and in crib with bear after kisses with momma and daddy by 740.
Started off just rolling around crib, then pulled herself up, got back down etc, but started crying harder.   I moved to a stool right beside her crib, and tried to comfort with my voice, but that didn't really help...again cried harder when she heard me.    Even offered pinky a few times, and she pushed away.   Did not pick up..did put her down a few times, and that made her MAD.   Eventually, I did cave and let her have my pinky, which she sucked for 10 minutes before falling asleep.   I did pull it out sooner than I usually do... I guess it's my version of Pantleys Gentle Removal?!?  The whole process took 70 min... So asleep about 850...

Should I have started bedtime much earlier?   She woke from nap 2 at 440ish, and I wasn't sure she had a long enough A to bed?   

Should I be shortening A during the day too, if she's only getting 40 min naps?

Am I really messing things up by letting her suck my pinky at the end of all that fussing?   I guess I'm just not sure how she will ever calm herself down to self soothe...it seems more like she would pass out from sheer exhaustion  rather than learn to self soothe. :(

Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2012, 01:12:33 am »
And she just jolted awake crying hard at 915.   

Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2012, 05:38:10 am »
Settled quickly with pinky at 915, but woke at 1140.  

I thought, surely, she mut be hungry, and tried to nurse her.  She got really worked up. Was pushing away from me, crying hard.  At 1200, I was rocking her, and gave her some Advil, just in case.    She doesn't have any other teething symptoms though.   At any rate.  I put her back into the crib, and let her fuss and cry.   When she was just fussing, I just sat quietly.   When she was crying hard, I tried to calm her by telling her "it's ok, you're just tired.   Momma's here, go to sleep".     I think the sound of my voice was making her more upset,    Eventually, I was just quiet, and would try to let her suck my pinky to calm down,    I know we discussed not doing that, as it's a habit I'll need to break later, but it was the only thing that calmed her down.  She didn't fall back asleep until 120, and then woke and cried again at 125...I was still in there, so I pinkied her again.   She's asleep now.  

As I was watching her tonight, I could see her getting calm, but just not able to "turn the corner"and actually fall asleep.    Heartbreaking and frustrating, for both of us!   I just want to help her, as she is so tired, hence I've been doing the one thing I think will help (pinky) but is this making things worse?

Offline mom2elise

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Re: Will W2S work for my 10month old?
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2012, 13:13:11 pm »
So after she fell asleep at 1:30am from her NW, I didn't hear from her until 5:30.   I thought "she must be starving" so I tried to nurse her, and again, she refused!   Got worked up, and finally calmed her down in the crib, with my pinky at 600, and she sucked for 30min or so... eyes closed but without falling asleep.  Started to cry hard again despite the pinky at 630, so I gave her the bottle of BM that I pumped at 1:30 (about 150ml).   Actually, DH held her while she downed the whole bottle, and I pumped another 100ml and put that into her bottle too.   She drank all of it, and fell asleep in his arms.   At about 715, he put her back in the crib, and she's been asleep since then (it's 9:10am now).   I'm feeling pretty guilty for "starving" the poor girl. 

Please give some guidance.   What to do now?   Naps are going to be off today, as I'm not sure I'll have time for 2 naps?    Is this really progress, or have I really messed things up?