Will W2S work for my 10month old?

[mom2elise]

I tried for 630 BT, but was only just putting her in crib at 630

She rolled around and fussed etc for a long time.   Finally sucked pinky long enough to fall asleep by 740.

[*Ali*]

Oh dear. I would have tried taking her up 20-30mins before I wanted her asleep.

FX for a good night.

[mom2elise]

Have I really screwed things up?

So, after in bed asleep and finally asleep at 740, she woke at 940.   I was a really loud mantra type cry, but I was afraid it would escalate, so I  went in and pinky-ed her.   She was asleep again at 950.

I watched her fuss and roll over a few times throughout the night (and silly me, stayed up until almost 1am, cleaning as we are having overnight house guests again).

At 330, she woke, and I let her fuss for 5 minutes.   At 335, I went in and let her suck my pinky.   Wasn't really upset, just awake, and would stop sucking for a minute or so, then suck hard again.   Stood up a few times, and I laid her back down with a "it's time to go to sleep."   And she'd suck hard again for a few minutes.   This lasted until 430, when I nursed her as I was afraid she was hungry.   Before bed, I had tried to give her a bottle instead of nursing as I didn't want to let her fall asleep at the breast, but she really only had 10ml or so.   At 440, she wasn't actively feeding anymore, just had my nipple in my mouth and more comfort sucking, so I took her off, and put her back in crib.   Pinky for 10 minutes, and she spit out my pinky, turned over and has been asleep ever since.   It's 815, and she's still asleep.   I even vacuumed downstairs at 745, as I wasn't sure what time our guests are arriving.

Questions:

Should I have waited at 940?    She was fussing for a few minutes and I wasn't sure if she'd settle, but she did at other times later in the evening, although, those times, she cried out just once or twice, or rolled around for less than 30 seconds.

Did I really mess things up by feeding at 430?   I was quite tired, and I thought it had been a long time since she had anything substantial to eat.   She had dinner at 600pm... that's when I should have been getting her ready for bed though

As I was sitting in there at 4am, I was thinking about how I can help her to self soothe.   Pantley's Gentle Removal sounds good, and I will try to teach her to put her fingers or thumb in her mouth during the day.   Maybe she'll suck them at night?   

And when I lay her down to sleep/nap, I won't give her my pinky for at least the first 10 minutes or so of the settling?   Even if she cries out loud?  If I let her have it later, will this just teach her to stay awake until she can have it?    Do I just decide one day that she gets no pinky ever again?   

 How long should I budget for her to be in the crib before she falls asleep if she's going to do it on her own, based on her track record...   It's taken almost an hour to settle at night, but I guess that's because she's OT   For naps that have been time right, it seems to be much shorter?    Except that I am still giving her pinky... 

And it's 830 now, and she's still asleep... should I be waking her?!?    I'm assuming the 430 feed means that she's not hungry and waking out of hunger.    Now I just need to make sure she gets a good nursing right before bed to prevent that 330, up for an hour hunger, right?

[mom2elise]

And she just woke at 840, nursed about 15 minutes, so still hungry in am.

Nap at 1215, or is that too soon after a 13 hour night...but she was up for an in the middle...

[mom2elise]

Nap 1 was 1217-130.  Maybe will try a stroller ride at 500?  If no nap, then aim to have in crib asleep by 630... so bath etc starts at 600?














 

[*Ali*]

Personally if she doesn't do a second nap I would aim to have her asleep by 6. Maybe try for a 20-30 min stroller nap at 4.30?

Please relax hun. Nothing you can do with regards to getting her to sleep is going to mess her up forever. Giving her the pinky just means you haven't started teaching her to set soothe *yet* I would pick the first nap of the day tomorrow and offer her her own fingers/hand to suck. I wouldn't make her wait if you are going to give her the pinky because it will make it harder to wean it when the time comes as she will remember it came in the end last time.
If she is hungry in the night then of course you must feed her. I would BF her at BT if she won't take a bottle rather than put her to bed without. You can always wake her if she starts dropping off.

[mom2elise]

Thanks Things always feel worse and much more daunting at 4am!

DH tells me to relax all the time .   He's very supportive with sleep routine etc, but knows that I stress about this kind of thing.   In my professional life, I'm used to having (or at least feeling like I have) more control, and predictability in terms of cause and effect, so having a "real live baby" who changes things up so much and has her own little personality

I guess I'm just really wanting this to work, as I feel like everybody i know who has a baby that "sleeps through the night" has eventually let their baby cry it out.  As much as I want a good nights sleep, I couldn't let her just cry if I felt like she needed me.    I do recognize, however, that I am rushing in too soon in many instances, and that much of the nursing or pinky to sleep that I've been doing is because it's easy for me...at least for now.   Won't be so easy when I go back to work.

The rest of our day went like this....went for a stroller ride at 430... Started to look a bit drowsy on the ride, but returned at 540, wide awake.    Rushed through dinner and bath, nursing by 630... Fell asleep on my breast and in crib at 650.   I did try to jostle her a bit before putting in the crib, but I didn't try too hard....it still feels weird to wake a sleeping baby

[*Ali*]

Yeah I know what you mean. Now my ds2 goes in the cot awake the majority of the time I don't worry about the odd feed to sleep.

[mom2elise]

I feel like I'm constantly making excuses for DD....it's teething..it's a growth spurt...its separation anxiety...we had an outing and messed up naps....bedtime was too late due to family dinner....we have houseguests and shes's overstimulated....shes on a nursing strike...

Our excuse tonight  she's starting to stand and walk independently, and that's messing up her sleep....  Although I must admit, I was super excited to see it.   And so glad DH was home to see it!   

It's 8pm, and we've been trying for an hour to fall asleep, and still nothing.  She's babbling away, pulling to stand,Rolling around,  clapping for herself, hugging her bear...

[katie80]

Yes, there's always something, isn't there?!? Pulling up to stand is my least favorite, I think. It was never an issue with my DD, but was a huge deal for DS. But, the thing is once you're consistent with a method (a BW-friendly one, that is ), it will work through all those things. That's the beauty of it. She's doing all this not sleeping stuff and will continue to do so, because she's never learned to go to sleep on her own. Not to say that my kids don't. They still have times of rolling around doing all that funny stuff that's not so funny at the time, but generally I pop them into bed and they go to sleep.

You certainly don't have to push her to independent sleep if you're not ready right now. It really won't work if you're not ready anyway. But, I do believe it will help in the long run. That's why I'm here, after all.

[mom2elise]

I think the middle of last night was definitely teething...again.   After falling asleep at 830, she woke briefly at 900, at 100 and 1100... And was either able to settle herself or pinky for 2-5 minutes.   Then at midnight, woke and was inconsolable!    Gave Advil at 1230, and still cried hard even though in our arms.   Finally settled at 130, and slept through until 7am.   Nursed at 700, and asleep for nap 1 at 1045.

Once our houseguests leave at the end of the week, I will try to stop the pinky...I think.   dH will be on last week of vacation, and I feel it's "now or never"...I know I shouldn't put that kind of pressure on me or her...but it's in my nature to want to see results.  Unfortunately, the crying and fatigue gets me every time!   

So, just to recap...when I do "stop the pinky".  I go through the bedtime routine, put her in the crib, and stay in room with her, try to get her to take own hand (I've noticed that since showing her how to out her fingers in her mouth, she tends to do this more often in the middle of the night...or, suck on her arm.   Even if she cries hard, i dont give her pinky?    Or let her suck until she calms down, and then pull before she falls asleep?     Ive been trying to do that now for naps and bedtime... Pull pinky when she's still sucking a bit...and pull sooner and sooner with each night.

It's this whole falling asleep without anything that I'm sceptical about.   Even in the car, or on a stroller ride, she seems tomhavevlots of trouble going from awake to asleep.    She usually cries out a couple of times, and takes 20 minutes or so to fall asleep.    And I can't always count on it working.

The good thing about the nursing strike last week is that we've mostly stopped middle of the night nursing.    I am confident now that she doesn't need it for food.   And now that she's nursing and taking a bottle, it's easier to make that decision in the MOTN.

[katie80]

Yes, sounds like discomfort last night.

...I think.   dH will be on last week of vacation, and I feel it's "now or never"...I know I shouldn't put that kind of pressure on me or her...but it's in my nature to want to see results.  Unfortunately, the crying and fatigue gets me every time!   

I just want to comment on this statement.  I know it's a bit nerve wracking, but you're right, there's no need to put pressure on either of you.  You just need to look at it as teaching her a new skill.  Like putting on clothes or tying a shoe, there are likely tears and frustration in all new skills, but if you keep at it, they do learn. Will it be fun? No, the first few times won't, but you just have to be committed and consistent.  Prepare yourself and know that there will be crying and you'll both be tired, but that's what makes doing it while your DH is home a plus, because you'll be able to nap and get some rest as well.

It's this whole falling asleep without anything that I'm sceptical about.   Even in the car, or on a stroller ride, she seems tomhavevlots of trouble going from awake to asleep.    She usually cries out a couple of times, and takes 20 minutes or so to fall asleep.    And I can't always count on it working.

Yes, but that's because she doesn't have the skills to do it.  It would be like throwing someone into a pool to swim that had always had help before.  It would take them awhile to figure out how to do it.  I'm not trying to be facetious here, but just want you to know that she can do it if you teach her.

I go through the bedtime routine, put her in the crib, and stay in room with her, try to get her to take own hand (I've noticed that since showing her how to out her fingers in her mouth, she tends to do this more often in the middle of the night...or, suck on her arm.   Even if she cries hard, i dont give her pinky?    Or let her suck until she calms down, and then pull before she falls asleep?     Ive been trying to do that now for naps and bedtime... Pull pinky when she's still sucking a bit...and pull sooner and sooner with each night.

If it were me, I'd just stop the pinky all together.  The first few times will definitely be tough, but the results will be quicker. Also, I think if you want her to find a new way to soothe herself, I'm not sure giving her the pinky then pulling it sooner will do that. But, ultimately it's up to you, if you're more confident in gradually removing the pinky then do that.  You just have to eventually stop it and not keep going back to it, because that will be really tempting when it gets tough.

The only caution I have is that if she has a tooth actively cutting, you may want to wait until the worst of it is over.  I know you don't need another excuse, but each time I've tried to stop a prop while my kids have been 'actively' teething it hasn't gone very well, and they've previously been independent sleepers. 

I know it's daunting, but you really can do this.  Beleive that she can fall asleep on her own, and stay consistent and committed.

[mom2elise]

Thanks

Just Advil'd my little girl, and she's still fussing away.   Hoping this tooth will pop before next week.

[mom2elise]

Question about our EASY today:

Recap last night..finally asleep at 830, brief waking at 900, 1000 and 1100...and then up from 1200-130am

Wake at 700
Nap 1 1030-1200
Nap 2 320-400
In crib at 715... But still wide awake.

Should I have moved BT earlier still?

[katie80]

I would have tried for BT (asleep by) 7pm.