Help...back to work in 3 weeks and 8 mo wont take bottle.

[sleepygirl79]

Hi, i really need some advice here. My 8mo has been EBF.I've tried to give her a bottle from 8weeks (though not consistently) but she would never accept it. About 5 weeks ago I started trying in earnest and she just refuses. The HV suggested a Doidy cup and spoon which.she'll take intermittently. She's started solids at 5 months and eats reasonably. She wasfeeding 4hrly, but wasn't so interested in the 11am feed so I just offer the Doidy cup then, but she'll more often than not refuse it. She took a bottle about 2 weeks ago after she bit me while bf, and I firmlyrefused to feed her, but this no longer works. I'm worried about.how she'll manage when I'm back at work in 3 weeks. Should I stick with the Doidy once a day at 11?
Also I'm trying formula as I can't express enough now. She seems to prefer pre made actamil to powder version that I make up, and even then doesn't always take it. Aargh!

[lpperry]

What kind of daycare provider will she be going to? How many hours a day? Part-time? Full-time?  I am an inhome daycare provider and babies who do not take bottles are very very difficult.  To be honest with you, I think you need to spend these three weeks getting your baby to take a bottle so that she will be prepared for daycare.  I am totally for breastfeeding and am currently breastfeeding and bf my other 2 children for a year. I also had a my own baby who refused bottles, so I understand how difficult this is.

However, when breastfeeding interferes with how your baby is going to settle into daycare, I think that you need to make some changes.  If your baby is going to daycare full-time and all day, she is going to need to have milk. Your baby is 8 months old and has been refusing a bottle her entire life. Offering once a day for the next 3 weeks is not going to make her take the bottle. I think you are going to need to completely stop nursing her for the next 3 weeks.  Only offer the bottle until she takes it.  Once she is comfortable with the bottle, then start nursing again.

I know other people who will say it doesn't matter if the baby eats at daycare. Sometimes these babies will reverse cycle and just nurse a lot in the evening.  This may work if you have the right childcare--like grandma watching the baby. However, if you have a baby in a group daycare setting, it is very very hard on a provider to have a baby who won't eat. Even with reverse cycling, the baby does want milk during the day. The babies that I have had who wouldn't take a bottle were very crabby an unhappy--they were hungry.  I think it is important to teach the baby to take a bottle if you are going to be away for an extended period on a regular baby--for the baby and the provider.

[Lolly]

First of all - don't panic! I've asked for some breast feeding eyes to take a look so I may shift this over to breast feeding.

Have a look at these links - there is a lot of information here that will help you. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=173309.0

I'm sorry to contradict the PP but I don't think stopping BF will help your situation and will probably make things worse. If you are ready to stop breastfeeding then that's your choice and we can help with that, but it doesn't sound like you are so stopping for 3 weeks would really mess with your supply.

Have a look at the links and we will see what the other ladies can suggest for you.

Laura

[Shiv52]

I think you are going to need to completely stop nursing her for the next 3 weeks.  Only offer the bottle until she takes it.  Once she is comfortable with the bottle, then start nursing again.

I actually think this can be quite dangerous to just stop cold turkey as a baby can become very dehydrated and very distressed.  It is not recommended to stop cold turkey unless it is for a medical reason.  

What is your schedule when you go back to work? How many hours will she be in daycare?   Have you ever gotten anyone else to give her a bottle?  

[Shiv52]

Posted with Laura x

[my3girlsjde]

If continuing breastfeeding is very important to you it can be done as many here will testify to.

If your lo is 8 months, there's no reason why you can't try some sippy cups. Not sure what the one is that you're using but my sister and many friends had a lot of luck with the silicone straw type.

Since you're going back in three weeks, now would be a great time to transition to your new bf'ing routine. You can express during the day as much as your body and sanity are able and keep offering the sippy during the hours she will be at daycare.

With a huge transition like daycare and stopping bf'ing as much as you will be I know it's a great way to reconnect at the end of the day.

I would remove all bf's during working hours and keep offering the sippy. If she's already got a negative association with the bottle then skip it and go straight to the sippy. Try to keep it positive and offer when you know she's hungry and likely to take it.

I know giving up bfing entirely is a huge adjustment for everyone and imho I think it'll make the transition easier when you go to work if you still have a feed or two. But only of that's what you want. If you want to keep at it, there's plenty of mamas here who have done it.

Posted at the same time as pp's

[Shiv52]

Shivi on here worked FT when her DD was little.  She didn't take a bottle so Shivi BF in the morning, Emma had solids at brekkie and lunch, then she BF after work and at bedtime.  3 BFs is totally fine for 8 months so I wouldn't worry too much.  if she eats solids well and you can still manage to fit in 3BFs round work you aren't under huge pressure to make sure she's taking a bottle when you go back to work. 

[lpperry]

I totally didn't mean to stop bf completely. I meant to pump and offer expressed milk.  Once baby is taking bottle or sippy or whatever you are using, then go back to breastfeeding.

I do understand the argument that it is dangerous for a bf baby to stop nursing cold turkey due to dehydration.  However, when baby goes to daycare, if the baby doesn't take a bottle or sippy, the baby is going to be stopping nursing cold turkey during the day anyway. I just think it should be the mom who has to deal with that transition and not the child care provider. 

[Shiv52]

However, when baby goes to daycare, if the baby doesn't take a bottle or sippy, the baby is going to be stopping nursing cold turkey during the day anyway

Yes but only during working hours.   And at the end of the day if the LO has already cut out the 11am BF then you are only potentially talking about 1 feed. 

I just think it should be the mom who has to deal with that transition and not the child care provider.

TBH I think a childcare provider has a responsibility too.   My BF's LO had never taken a bottle when she went back to work despite her best efforts and her childcare provider was AMAZING and told her not to panic and to just leave sippies and a bottle and she'd manage and see what was going to work best and within a month her LO was taking sippies of formula at lunch time no bother.  She was really patient and just kept working at it. 

[Fiver]

When you're offering EBM or formula, have you tried it at different temperatures?   I know my DS was so fussy about taking EBM unless it was just the right temperature.

Also, BF babies will find formula an "unusual" taste.  Honestly, having mixed fed DS, the smell of formula still makes me wretch

I just think it should be the mom who has to deal with that transition and not the child care provider.

Sometimes, despite the best efforts of the parents (yes, mum does the actual feeding, but there's some responsibility on dad to help out with any transition from BF to FF), BF LOs just won't take a bottle.  Childcare providers are paid to act in loco parentus to someone else's offspring.  If I was looking for childcare and was having this issue, I think I would seriously have to think twice if they were unwilling to work with me to find a solution.

[lpperry]

Rereading my post, I see that it sounded rude when I said that "I just think it should be the mom who has to deal with the transition and not the childcare provider."  "deal with" was probably not the best choice of words.

I agree that the childcare provider will have a role. However, I think it is unfair to the baby and childcare provider to put an 8 month old in daycare and expect the provider to feed the baby a bottle if the baby has never taken one in 8 months.  This does not sound like the OP is going to do this. She has been trying to get the baby to take a bottle (or take the milk some way other than bf) in order to prepare for going back to work.  She asked for advice on how to help her daughter manage when she has to go to daycare in a few weeks. I just think that since she has three weeks, those weeks would be well spent trying to get the baby to take milk in some other form. If not, she is going to have an unhappy baby. The baby is going to be starting daycare for the first time (maybe--we don't know the daycare history of this baby) and it will (likely) be the first time that nursing won't be an option.  It's going to be hard.

We don't know what kind of childcare the OP is using though. My opinion may change if I find out that a grandparent, relative, or nanny was going to be caring for the child one-on-one. That type of childcare provider will have the time and resources to spend working with this baby on eating.  In a group care setting it is more difficult. 

OP, I wonder if you will be able to express more when you go to work. When are you pumping now? If it is not in place of a feed, I wouldn't expect you to be able to pump much. Can you pump a little bit over the course of the day and try to get enough expressed milk for one bottle? Maybe she would accept a bottle or sippy cup of breastmilk rather than formula.  I know you might not have enough milk for a whole day at daycare right away, but at least you will know if it is the milk issue or the bottle issue. 

[SILLYFACE]

Hi ya! I would definitely go with the cup - don't go backwards! My little lady has just mastered the cup with the silicone straw and is massively pleased with herself! It took 3 attempts for her to use the straw and 2weeks for her to hold the cup herself! As a pp has suggested a bf in the morning, cup with expressed/formula during the day, bf when you get home ( which should be a lovely way to spend time and recommect with baby) and bedtime bf should be fine.
I know loads of friends who are trying to get their little ones off the bottle so see it as a positive thing! Try a couple of cups and persevere for a week with each. I definitely recommend the straw though I've heard its really good for breastfeeders as its a similar suck.
Whatever you do don't go cold turkey - the transition to day care is a massive step for you and baby and giving up bf prematurely will be upsetting for you both. Good luck xxx

[Katet]

My Ds2 didn't ever take a bottle, but he was taking a cup from 6mo... not much for a while, but by 9mo he would take about 50ml (so  not a full feed) of EBM in a sippy cup for his 10.30am feed... it was fantastic as it meant we could get out & I didn't have to worry about stopping to feed. If she is on solids she will get through the day, it may not be ideal, but I think at 8mo I'd be focussing more on a cup than a bottle if she is already a challenge with a bottle.

I found I had to try a few cups for him to get it, but he did, I think knowing that my Mum had us as children on a sippy cups from 6mo (in the late 60's) helped me as I knew that it was possible (my Mum  hated bottles).

[Papaya]

My DD would never take a bottle either, but would take small feeds of EBM from a cup from about 5 months - never a full feed, but enough to tide her over until I got home. I agree with pps that at 9 months if your LO is having solids and a wee bit of milk from a cup during the day, and you can fit in 3 feeds at other times of the day, she should be just fine

BF babies often do well with a straw sippy - DD picked it up straight away as well.

xx

[SILLYFACE]

With the cup of milk you could also try healthy calcium snacks too - yoghurts, sticks of cheese, rice puddings, cereals etc, cheese on toast, mini cheese triangles.etc. Xxxx

[sleepygirl79]

Hi everyone,
Thanks SO much for all your advice and reassurrance. Sorry it took me a while to reply, but we've been unwell. I would like to carry on breast feeding in the morning, after work and at night.
I work 9 to 5, 3 days a week, but do on calls from home (occasionally I may have to go in overnight and hubby will be with her.
During the day, LO will be at nursery from 8 to 530.
She knows how to drink from a bottle, but refuses mist of the time.
She can drink water from a tommee tippee first sips cup and a boots sippy cup. But she won't take milk from these and I was afraid to try too hard in case she starts refusing water too. I've tried a few different temperatures.
I've managed to add formula to her rice pudding, and mix it with some mashed banana, which she'll have with a spoon. Is that ok?
It seems that the majority of you suggest a straw cup for milk. Should I do this rather than the sippy cup she uses for water?
I'll try to express a few times a day, (i was doing it after the morning feed), offer expressed milk in a cup during daycare hours, and try to not bf her till I would have come home from work. does that sound like a good plan?
The nursery have actually been quite helpful and reassuring.

[SILLYFACE]

Hello hun - hope you are feeling better. I would give her a good feed from both sides in the morning, followed by cereal with milk (you can give cows milk in cereal from 6 months) plus a yoghurt. Midmorning is a good time to try the cup of ebm or formula. Id follow this with some cheese-based snack if necessary. Lunch as normal with water. Midafternoon id try the cup again with a snack if necessary. Rice cakes are great as they'd probably make her thirsty! When you get home give her a lovely feed followed by tea. Again cheese on toast, fromage frais, rice pudding etc. Then after her bath a final feed. This is exactly what I shall be doing in a month! If you are worried about the milk in the sippy and the confusion with water, try the straw cup for milk and the normal sippy for water. I wasn't convinced by the straw when people recommended it but it is wonderful and soooooo cute! You have nothing to worry about it will work fine and the feed after nursery will be so precious. Good luck xxxx

[Shiv52]

I'll try to express a few times a day, (i was doing it after the morning feed), offer expressed milk in a cup during daycare hours, and try to not bf her till I would have come home from work. does that sound like a good plan?
The nursery have actually been quite helpful and reassuring.

If you are only working 3 days a week I would just offer milk in a cup at 11am at that is the feed you have dropped anyways.    I think the nursery will have more success getting her to take the milk with a straw cup.  I personally wouldn't bother dropping any other feeds in the run up to daycare especially if they are supportive.  even if she doesn't take much during the day a morning, after work and bedtime feed on workdays is more than adequate and as pp says you can get nursery to give milk based solids and that should tide her over until you are back. 

But i wouldn't panic just yet.  It took my LOs a while to take any real volume from a sippy but I did a straw cup with DD2 from 7 months and was so surprised at how much she would drink from it.

[lpperry]

If it is just 3 days a week, I totally change my mind about not breastfeeding and trying to get her to take the bottle or cup. I guess I just assumed you meant full-time daycare.

For just 3 days a week, I wouldn't worry too much about it unless your dd ends up miserable at daycare because she is starving. You can give daycare a few bottles and the cups that she has drank out of and just see how it goes.   If she doesn't take milk there, you could always send extra solids so she has something in her belly. Then you can nurse in the evening--she might wake up extra those nights if she is extra hungry, but with just 3 days a week, it won't be too bad if she doesn't take a bottle on daycare days.

I would also leave the cups that she drinks water out of and let them offer water if she doesn't want the milk. It sounds like she knows how to use a cup, it is just that she doesn't want milk from it.

Good luck!

[sleepygirl79]

Hi guys, two other questions. I've tried a straw cup with ebm for almost a week with no success...I think once she realised it was milk (age tried a bit) she refused to suck. Who knows. Should I just persist with the same thing to keep it consistent? Also, I find that if I keep bm in the fridge and use it the next day, it smells like its off. Is that normal? I thought it should last a few days in the fridge.

[Fiver]

In what way does it smell off?  Like a soapy smell or something else?

[SILLYFACE]

If it just smells really 'milky' it'll be fine - it does have a shelf life - I can't remember how long I think its the rule of 3 - 3 hours at room temp, 3 days in fridge and 3 months in freezer but please look it up as I am not 100%. You will probably notice it separates too. The best tip I ever had was not to shake it as it kills off all the goodness and never heat it or defrost it in boiling water as it also kills the antibodies. Stir or swirl it to mix it up. Also the milk may smell or taste different according to what you have eaten. I'd keep trying the straw but don't stress about it! Make sure your little one is thirsty - I can tell when my baby isn't as she just bites it! I have the Nuby natural touch no spill flip it silicone straw cup for 12months which I highly recommend - my LO was 9 - 10 months when I gave it to her. Keep going hun - perhaps try water in it too to get baby used to different fluids. Good luck and keep us posted. 

[Fiver]

Just to clear it up, it's 12 months in the freezer, up from the previous 6m guidance, but yes, 3 days in the fridge as I recall.

I'd wondered about it being soapy as it could be excess lipase which would need you to scald the milk immediately after expressing before storing it.  I'm not sure how unusual that is, though.

[sleepygirl79]

Hi, thank you. I'll keep going. Will try the Nuby if ours doesn't work. I guess soapy is a good way to describe the smell. It doesn't always smell like that, so it could have been diet related. That's really helpful about the timings. I'Ve got a pretty strong willed baby! Will keep you updated. X

[Fiver]

If you think that could be an issue, there is some guidance here http://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/milkstorage/lipase-expressedmilk/ on how to go about resolving it.  Good luck

[Katet]

I'Ve got a pretty strong willed baby! Will keep you updated. X

But she won't starve herself. Shemay compensate by wanting more feeds at night if she doesn't get as much in the day, but as long as she eats solids & has small amounts of milk you will be ok... just feed more on the days you are with her so she gets the balance for the week. If that makes sense.