Author Topic: WI/WO Question...and more. Help Please! I feel so defeated  (Read 964 times)

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Offline renea

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WI/WO Question...and more. Help Please! I feel so defeated
« on: July 04, 2012, 23:50:50 pm »
My DS is almost 10 months and dealing with Separation Anxiety, which is getting worse.  I've wanted to use the WI/WO method, but am confused about how to do it if he won't even calm down for quite a long time while I'm holding him.  Once he does, if I even start to lower him into the crib, the crying starts all over again.  If I can't even get him to calm down in order to "walk out," what should I do?  The only way he'll go down at this point is if I wait until just after he falls asleep, and by then my back is killing me from holding him and I feel like I've failed since I'm pretty much holding him to sleep.  My husband and I have worked so hard at the BW methods and when SA hit, it seems it all flew out the window and now I feel helpless. 

My only encouragement has been reading several other posts about others who have dealt with the same thing.  I was starting to feel like such a failure....I've tried SO hard not to use CIO, but have come close.  I've left him to cry several times in the last few days for 5 or so min (feels like forever), hoping it's a mantra cry, but feeling horrible the whole time if it's not.  Feels like a lose/ lose situation - if I leave him, I'm sure it has negative effects, and if I stay it has negative effects, which I've been working SO hard to avoid.  I am so worn out and confused, physically AND emotionally.  I'm starting to dread any bedtime.  We just walk in the room and the crying begins. 

I should add that before about 9 months he went to sleep quite well.  We had wind down, cuddled a bit, put him in crib, would stay a little while until he was relaxed, walked out and he'd finish going to sleep on his own.  He used to use a pacifier and just when we were talking about helping him to move on from it, he started to refuse it on his own.  He used to use a lovey, but now often rejects that as well.  Now he just wants me, but if my husband puts him down he does better.

His routine has worked out ok, but I'm often questioning how much sleep he's getting, but every time I try something new, it doesn't seem to help.  We've tried a few times to move his bedtime to earlier, but he always ends up waking up earlier. So I've concluded, with doubt, that he just doesn't need as much sleep.   I've also wanted to drop the night feeds but he seems to insist on a dream feed, and with the recent challenges I'll often also feed him early in the morning simply hoping for more sleep.  All of these things make me feel so defeated. 

His EASY-
Up most often around 6:40, but lately sometimes earlier (used to wake up happy but since SA, always mantra cries til I come in)
E- BF-7
    Solids -8
A- 7-10
S- 10-11 (this varies day to day depending on how long it takes to get him to sleep as well as how often he woke the night before.  Sometimes 45 min to an hour and a half)
E- BF-11 (SEEMS he doesn't eat much...not sure if not hungry or if I'm not making enough)
    Solids -12:30/1
A- 11-2
S- 1:45/2:30-3:00/4:00 (time and amount also varies from day to day depending on first nap and my husband's schedule- Between a.m. and p.m nap he usually gets around 2-2.5 hours a day.)
E- Bottle- 3:30/4
  -Solids- 5:30 -he's with my husband
A-3:30/4-8ish.
E- BF/bottle when I get home if he's asking for it and if not, right before bed.
S- Tried 7:30 but always ends up waking up super early the next morning...so we've pretty much pushed the bedtime to 8 and sometimes later.  He almost always wakes up around 11 or so and pu/pd wouldn't work so I ended up continuing to BF at that time.  I've never produced enough milk at his before bed feed, so always have to give some formula, which is another huge discouragement to me.  Now it seems I don't pump enough either when I'm at work in afternoon so he's getting half breast milk and half formula.   This is another reason I haven't tried SUPER hard to quit the dream feed, hoping to help my production.  Now, with super early morning wakings where he will NOT go back to sleep with normal help, I've given in and fed him then as well.  He doesn't seem to be snacking but seems hungry, so then I start doubting if he's getting enough food during the day as well.  SO many issues....this brings up his digestions issues and all the foods he can't eat, which makes me wonder if he's eating healthy.  He's dealt with constipation almost his whole life, which adds to my uncertainty about why he's crying at night- is he tired, SA, in pain?  SO frustrating and takes my confidence away for what to do to help...comfort, pu/pd, leave to cry, feed, etc?. 

Anyway, I know that when I have confidence about what I'm doing, even if he's crying on and on, I can handle it better since I feel like I know what I'm doing. My confidence lately is shot, and it doesn't take much to feel like crying along with him.  I often just feel frozen and not sure what to do since it seems I've tried everything.  What bothers me most is when I feel like yelling at him to stop crying.  I've had to put him down and step away just to regather my emotions.  So if anyone can help I'd be grateful.  I've read several posts about all different things, but something specific to this would be great.  Even affirmation or encouragement.  Thanks so much.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 01:09:19 am by renea »

Offline *Ali*

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Re: WI/WO Question...and more. Help Please! I feel so defeated
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 10:14:05 am »
Hi hun, hugs. It sounds like you guys are having a hard time right now. Did you recently return to work?
LOs this age tend to settle faster in the cot so I would try not to pu at all. Pupd really just becomes pd at this age. Here is a link as to how to do it with an older baby. Scroll down to the 8mo-1yo section. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=208990.0
For the wiwo for SA you may also find this link helpful http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=62612.0 at this age you need to couple wiwo with another method like pupd or shh pat. My ds2 likes a firm hand and soothing words.
Recent research (on monkeys) found that los do cry more when mama is there but that they suffer higher levels of stress hormones if left alone so you being there is definitely preferable :)
Your DS also sounds like he is heading towards the 2-1 nap transition so have a look at this link http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0 he may need one of his naps capping.
What do you think?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline renea

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Re: WI/WO Question...and more. Help Please! I feel so defeated
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 03:53:43 am »
Thanks for your thoughts on all of this.  I think I agree with pretty much all your ideas.  Before posting I had already read all of the links that you mentioned, plus more, so I wrote some main points down and started trying different things....and have had some great progress.   Another thing that became clear is that hunger or digestion was more of a part of the challenge than I realized.  I believe SA is present but not as much the main issue as I thought.  The thing I have to remind myself is "take a step-at-a-time."  I start seeing all the areas that aren't the way I'd hope and if I try to change too quickly it just throws him off. 

I'm left with a challenge, though.  I've found that when he eats before going down for a nap, he almost never has a hard time.  He rarely falls asleep eating, so I figured I should just try it.  It's helped him in going to sleep instead crying on and on and missing a nap, but now I'm wondering if it's causing more problems. 

At night he still always wakes up between 10 and 12 and will rarely go back to sleep unless I feed him.  If he eats closer to 12, he'll usually make it until morning.  If it's earlier, he'll almost always wake up wanting to eat again at 4 or 5.  I don't want to feed him but he just escalates if I try helping him back to sleep.  Maybe it's ok and I just need to let it be, but from what I've read, it seems he shouldn't need to eat at all at night.  He eats til he's full 3 times a day, and usually seems to get enough milk...although hard to know since I breast feed most times.  When he wakes at night I'm wondering if I need to leave him longer.  I've been trying to leave him and not go in the room at all, hoping he'll go back to sleep.  It's usually a mantra, but when it escalates much at all I just go in since I don't want to do CIO at all.  Maybe I should be leaving him longer?  Once I go in I always pick him up.  Maybe THAT's the issue.  I have it in my mind that he needs to calm down and THEN put him down.  I've tried laying him down without picking him up (he usually stands up before I come in), and he always gets more upset....LOTS more most often.  He'll escalate quickly, kick his legs, etc.  But when I pick him up he'll usually cry on and on and on, usually mantra but sometimes more.  If I put him down he escalates.  I can't hold him that long though.  That's when I end up feeding him...to save my back, my sanity and my sleep. 

One note that might have brought this on is that for months he was constipated (tried everything).  That seems to be pretty much resolved now, but because of this issue, he would often wake up in the middle of the night needing to poop.  I would always get him up since the easiest way for him was standing in his walker....and sometimes would have to give suppository.  Maybe he got used to being picked up at night because of this.  I'm not sure, but I'm not sure how to break it either without CIO. 

Any thoughts?  Maybe it also has to do with the Pu/Pd issue.  Maybe i'm picking him up too often.  Just not sure what else to do when he's crying so much.  Lying him down doesn't help or even entering the room.  If I even sit by the cot he stands and cries and cries.  I've tried leaning over the edge, talking to him, singing, putting my hand on him, etc.  Once he's upset, though, it's tough to calm him unless he eats.  I'm not one that has immediately gone to feeding him either.  I've tried for hours before and finally feed him and once drove him around.  Lately I DO just go to feeding though.  It saves my sleep.  But I don't want to dig myself deeper into a hole so I'm looking for thoughts on this. 

Thanks again!

Offline renea

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Re: WI/WO Question...and more. Help Please! I feel so defeated
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2012, 15:09:51 pm »
A little update.  I re-read the adjustments for pu/pd for older kids and decided to only pick him up if his cry was escalating, and then not very long.  As soon as he would calm down even to a mantra cry, I would put him down.  I also realized that I haven't used my voice as much as I can.  I think I give up too quickly, thinking I'm disturbing his going-to-sleep process by talking.  So I decided to try talking more and even a bit louder than normal to see the effect.  I was VERY surprised by the results, especially when he first woke around 10:30.  I only had to pick him up maybe twice.  When I put him down he didn't like it, but before picking him back up I tried talking a bit and it helped more than I expected.  When he calmed even more I switched to a whisper but kept reaffirming him that it was okay.  Then, before he was fully asleep I walked out.  The first time he fell asleep by himself at that point. 

He woke up a few more times, maybe 2 times where he ended up settling himself pretty quickly without me going in, and 2 or 3 where he started getting upset, so I went to help.  I did the same thing but it took longer these times.  I'm taking it as a step in the right direction.  I still ended up feeding him around 12:45, but more because I know he's used to it and I didn't want him waking up all night needing food.  I figured I'd focus on first helping him re-settle without needing to be held as much, as well as not feeding him in the early morning.  When these areas improve I'll start backing off on the length of time I do the dream feed and hopefully will be able to cut it out soon. 

I have more hope now and it helps to have a plan.  Any further ideas and thoughts are still welcome.  I still DO wonder if he actually needs the dream feed or if it's just his routine.  Thanks.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: WI/WO Question...and more. Help Please! I feel so defeated
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 18:29:00 pm »
How's his solids intake? Maybe he is hungry at night if he only takes 3 BFs a day and is having 2 at night. It is probably learned hunger and until you can get him out of the habit of eating so much at night he won't take the calories he  needs in the day.

If you technique is working then by all means carry on with it. If not I would be consistent with the age appropriate version of pupd.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011