5 month old waking for DF, waking at night

[Brooklyn_Mommy]

My 5 and a half month old is not yet on solids and gets a combination of breast milk and formula (formula only 3 days a week when I work, maybe 2 bottles of formula while I am gone). His daytime schedule is a bit of a disaster because of my older son's playgroup schedule - the baby needs to come along for drop off at 9:30 and pick up at 12:30 and he wakes a different time every day. There is literally nothing I can do about it, I don't have anyone else who can watch DS2 so he cannot nap earlier than 9:45 although some days he would like to. So a usual day looks like this:

wake and Eat: 7 am
Sleep: 9:45 or 10 (I nurse before his nap or my babysitter gives a bottle, but he doesn't fall asleep nursing)
wake and eat: 11:30 or 12
sleep: 2 pm (probably I would nurse a little bit again before his nap)
wake and eat: 4 pm
sleep: 5:30/5:45
wake and eat: 6 or 6:30
bath at 7:30 once older brother is in bed; nurse; bed by 8
DF at 11 - except it is not a dream feed because he wakes up for it. If I don't feed him exactly by 11 he wakes up and starts to cry until I go in and feed him. If I go in at 11 and pick him up still asleep, he wakes up right away and is awake for the feed, then falls asleep nursing on the second side. I am really starting to resent the dream feed because I don't want to stay up until 11 b/c I am sooo tired and my DH is typically still at work so he can't do it with a bottle. But since DS2 really expects to be nursed at that hour, I don't know what to do.

then he will wake around 2:30 and fuss. I give him his paci and he goes back to sleep.

Then he's up again sometime between 4 and 5. I nurse him and he goes back to sleep. Then we do it all over again.

I don't know what to do here. The upshot is that I am not getting more than 2 or 3 hours of consecutive sleep at a time and I am EXHAUSTED!!!! any ideas anyone? Should I drop the "dream feed" or keep it going? If he could get rid of the 2am wake, it would really be good, but I can't seem to get rid of it although he no longer eats at that time.

Thank you!!

[katie80]

I think you've got a couple options here.  If he's waking at exactly 11pm for the DF, it might be habitual.  You could start bringing it earlier, like 10:45pm for a few nights to see if you get him at a deeper stage of sleep. Then, you could go to bed a bit earlier too. Or, you could try dropping it.  If its truly habitual, you can do W2S to try to push him past it.  You'd go in at 10pm and rouse him just enough to start a new sleep cycle (not wake him all the way), by either rubbing his cheek or twitching his earlobe or something similar.  It takes about 3-7 times to break the habit, so you'd have to do it for about a week to see if it works. Here's a bit more info: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=121269.0

The other thing I was wondering about is the paci.  Does he use it to fall asleep at all sleeps? I'm wondering if it's become a bit of a prop, because every time he wakes in the night he either gets fed back to sleep or gets the paci.  Does he settle any other way? If so, I might start trying to use that instead of the paci at 2:30am to see if he doesn't start sleeping past. Again, if it's always 2:30pm, you could try W2S for that waking too.  But, I'd only pick one or the other time to work on, not both.

His routine may not be typical of a 5.5mo old, with some longer A times, but he does seem to make up for them with his naps, and it's not all that far off, so I don't think it's a problem.  It's great that it works for everyone.

[Brooklyn_Mommy]

Thanks for replying! I am not sure it works for everyone, since I am dealing with so many night wakings, but poor thing, there is not much I can do about it. The life of a second child  

I will try going in between 10:30 and 10:45 for the dream feed. I would love a little extra sleep.

He does not use the paci for all sleep times. He uses it sometimes for naps (not always) and doesn't want it when he goes down for the night, when he usually talks to himself for a few minutes and then drops off to sleep. At the 2:30ish waking, which could be earlier could be later (I refuse to feed him before 4am), the paci is pretty much the only thing that will settle him back to sleep. I mean I guess I could pick him up and rock him but that seems worse. Also I am in such a daze that for me to get up and stand over his bed and fuss with petting him and whatnot sounds horrible. I am too tired.

Do you think starting solids may help? I was going to introduce some cereal this weekend perhaps although I had been trying to wait til 6 months. Maybe once he is eating a bit I can drop the dream feed?

thank you again for any input

[katie80]

At the 2:30ish waking, which could be earlier could be later (I refuse to feed him before 4am), the paci is pretty much the only thing that will settle him back to sleep. I mean I guess I could pick him up and rock him but that seems worse. Also I am in such a daze that for me to get up and stand over his bed and fuss with petting him and whatnot sounds horrible. I am too tired.

I can understand that. If he goes to sleep fine without it, then it's likely not a prop. It could in fact be that the DF is disrupting his sleep and causing him to wake more. Bringing it earlier and catching him at a different point in the sleep cycle might help that. If, after a week things aren't better with the DF and that NW, I think it's worth trying to drop the DF. You might have to use w2s or resettle him at that time for a few days, but if he slept better after that, then you could go to sleep earlier and hopefully do just one or two quick NFs and no other paci replugging.

Do you think starting solids may help? I was going to introduce some cereal this weekend perhaps although I had been trying to wait til 6 months. Maybe once he is eating a bit I can drop the dream feed?

It's doubtful that solids will help right now. Anything they start on is much less calorie dense than milk and has the potential to cause tummy issues (cereals are actually pretty tough for some LOs to digest), which can lead to more NWs. You can certainly try, but if you wanted to wait til 6 mo and he doesn't seem hungrier, then I don't think solids will likely be the answer. I've seen more issues caused by solids on this board than help.

[Brooklyn_Mommy]

To drop a dreamfeed with a nursing baby, am I correct that I should just keep moving it earlier in 15 minute or half hour long intervals until it blends with the last feeding of the night? I have this sense that you are correct and the dreamfeed is disrupting him and causing more NWs. I would like to get rid of it. I just don't want to cause MORE wake ups if I am wrong! I really feel like I've been hit by a bus. I am so tired. I have literally never been this tired in my life. I almost wish I believed in Ferberizing.

I think for his first food perhaps we'll try a banana mashed up rather than cereal. I don't want him to have tummy problems. DS1 tolerated rice cereal just fine but oatmeal even better. Maybe we should skip rice cereal altogether and go to oatmeal. What do you think?

[Brooklyn_Mommy]

I have had an a-ha moment. I can't believe it took me this long but that's what sleep deprivation does to you! So I believe that the genesis of the 2am NW is that my DH comes to bed at that hour and DS is just a light sleeper and is in my room. Even if DH doesn't come in the room (falls asleep on the couch or comes a different time) I believe he is just used to hearing noise at 2 am and wakes up.

I have a smallish 2 bedroom apartment. In 1 bedroom is DS1 who is 2.5 and STTN unless something is wrong (illness, etc). In the second bedroom is me, DS2 and DH. Should I try putting the two boys to bed together and see if that helps? I am really nervous to do that b/c DS2 wakes up so much and the last thing I need is TWO kids up all night! But maybe if he were in a quieter place, he would sleep better. I could try putting them both to bed at 7:30 and seeing how that goes. The dream feed would be tricky b/c I have to go in quietly and not wake DS1.

What does everyone think???

[Brooklyn_Mommy]

anyone? desperate for some advice!!

[katie80]

Hi hon, sorry I haven't replied in a while, I wasn't feeling well last night, so am just getting onto BW this afternoon.  Yes, that is technically how you drop a DF, but I think if you just kept bringing it back until you got to 9:30 or even 10 pm, I'd just give it a go one day and not do it.  Since he's young and still taking several good milk feeds, I don't think you need to bring it any farther back than that. Or, you could just stop cold turkey and resettle at that time if he wakes.

As for your ah-ha moment, I really think there's something to that.  I can understand your hesitancy of not wanting to wake DS1.  If you'd like to see if you can get DS2 sleeping better stretches at night before moving them together, do you have something you could use for white noise to try to drown out some of DH's noise (like a fan or something)?

[Brooklyn_Mommy]

Thank you so much for writing!

Here is the plan, then: I will spend the next week getting rid of the dream feed. Depending on my success on getting longer stretches out of him, I will then move DS2 in with DS1.

I do have a VERY loud air conditioner and a white noise machine in my room. DH is just loud, I guess! It's very frustrating. I wish he was a better sleeper too, where is the Husband Whisperer??

I could potentially try W2S at 1 to drop the 2 am NW, but I will first concentrate on the dream feed.

I really appreciate your help, Katie

[katie80]

I wish he was a better sleeper too, where is the Husband Whisperer??

LOL!!

Sounds like you have a good plan in place.  Definitely concentrate on the DF first.  It could be that he will then need a feed somewhere around 2-3 am, so it may work to get rid of both issues at once. 

I really appreciate your help, Katie

You're welcome, I'm happy to try and help.