help - 3mo can't get into routine :(

[~*erin*~]

my 3 month old has been short napping for over a month now (GRRR!) and been eating very 3 hrs ... however, I have noticed in the last few days to a week that she's not really hungry at that point; I think she could easily go to a 3.5hr feeding schedule because when she has napped for longer (which is so rare!) and it's been that long since her last feed, she does eat much more eagerly. My question is, how on earth do I establish any kind of routine when the naps are so brutal!? I have tried it all to get her naps longer and nothing seems to be working; I cry every day over it! I have to make up my mind that she's a short napper and move on just to keep my sanity, but I'm not really sure how to get her feedings organized. Maybe that sounds dumb....
any thoughts appreciated. Thanks!
ps:
-EBF, but thinking of starting some formula
-soother for sleeping
-swaddled for sleeping
-no real EASY due to the reasons above
-A times are all over the place - sometimes just over 1hr, sometimes 1hr40min or anywhere in between

do I have to just wait for her to grow out of this, as I am thinking it's developmental at this point since I have experimented with A times for weeks now always a few days of each.....

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, when you say short naps....how short?
I would try a few things. The first is push those feeds out close to 3.5 hrs if you can. it's okay if you end up with a bit of EASAES this happens with short nappers

I would also try to stick with the same first A time for a week. This will help reset her clock, and get her into a pattern. At 3 mths the avge A is 1.20 mins-1.30 mins so you could try to do WD after 1hr20-30 aiming to have her asleep settled by 1hr30. And see how the nap goes over the week.

Have you ever watched her wake? Some LOs jolt awake, others wake crying, chatting etc. if you can watch you may be able to see what is waking her. Ie if it's the jolts HTTJ can help.if crying it maybe she is OT.

Hugs short naps are hard

[~*erin*~]

short naps are usually between 30-45 minutes. Sometimes, I definitely know she's OT and I can generally resettle, however, that's getting a bit harder to do as well. I have watched her several times, and almost every time it's different - sometimes it's the jolts, sometimes she just wakes, sometimes she wakes happy, sometimes she wakes crying and obviously still tired. I have tried HTTJ and had some success, however, only 2 times it worked for me.

Good idea to start with a consistent 1st A time - why didn't I think of that!? haha. I've been thinking for a while now to set a consistent WU time for her as well, as it generally ranges from 630-730am .... depending on how the night goes. (I never had to worry about that with my older one - she woke at 6am sharp since practically the day she was born!) Think that might help as well? That's a tough one too, because sometimes she's not very hungry when she wakes up depending on her last NF .... ugh, so many things to keep track of and sort out!

Anywho ... thanks for the suggestions!

[ZacsMumme]

No prob.
She may not be ready for longer time between all E's if BF, that's ok too. Somebf babies feed for 3 hrs till closer to 5-6 mths.others are ready at 3
I found for us during the transition Z could go longer in the am,then tanked up more in the pm

Try not to worry too much she's still little. If you can crack the first A to get a good nap, things will start to fall into place

[~*erin*~]

I have been trying and trying and trying and I feel like nothing is working. I have no EASy to post because things are so all over the place. She hardly shows any cues, and so I've been feeding at the 3hr mark, but she doesn't eat much sometimes at that time, and then her naps are short, and I feel like it's just a big ol' mess. Things were ok for about a week last week, but now things seem to have reverted. I feel like I have so much trouble functioning when there is hardly any routine to speak of. It is driving me insane. I cry all the time because I just feel like I don't know what she needs or wants. She doesn't cry much, so I guess I"m doing something right. But I am desparate for a routine of eat, play, sleep, and it's just not happening. What do I do?

For example, this morning she did her grunting from 5-630am which is always a restless sleep for her. Got up at 635, fed around 650am. Then went down for nap around 815, but took until almost 830 to fall asleep. Woke from nap at 925am, fed around 10 because she was acting hungry, but then didn't eat much. Then went to run some errands, and she slept in car seat for 15min aroun 1030am, then again from 11-1130am, and wouldn't go back to sleep (tried for 15min) when we got home. So now, if I stick to her 1hr20/30 A time and 3 hr feeding, that means she will be eating right when she should go for nap time.

I just don't know what to do. I'm seriously so upset that she doesn't / can't / won't fall into some sort of pattern. And now, It's 12noon and she's acting hungry - there's no rhyme or reason to this baby and I am having such a hard time coping with it. That probably sounds pathetic, but it's so hard for me. I know BW isn't about times and structure, it's about following cues, but how do I do that when the cues are so vague and there's not semblance of a routine???

Please help

[~*erin*~]

Hi there - so I followed your advice of being  very aware of the time of her first A time and it has helped. Mostly. haha. We had 2 days of 1hr30, and then a day with a 1hr20, and today 1hr for the 1st nap length. She might have hit a GS, but I'm not too sure, so of course, everything has gone to pot again lol. (I laugh on the outside, but cry in reality!) Any rhyme or reason for a 60min nap? or had she just had enough? should I try stretching out her A time a bit over the next few weeks? probably, since we should do that anyway to get her to 4months A time.... she's also got her hands in her mouth constantly, so I'm very confused about whether or not she is hungry most of the time these days. ugh. haha

[Ima shel Alon]

(((Hugs))), Erin. Believe me, I know how hard it is and I have been in your situation, it feels awful.
So first thing I want to tell you to calm down. I know you are probably ed with me now because this is not what you want to hear, but I really wish someone said to me and meant it. Your baby is still so small, she can probably feel that you are stressed and that is playing as well in her sleep patterns. IT WILL BE BETTER, I promise. At this age it's still hard to be on a good routine, so as long as you are separating E from S you are doing great and giving her a good foundation.
It's frustrating with the sleep so I have a suggestion. It's a bit of work but it pays off. Keep yourself a log, write down when she wakes up, how long is her A and when she falls asleep. Then write how long was her nap and did she wake up happy or cranky. In general, for most babies, 30-35min naps are OT (so too much A) and anything between 45min and 1:20h naps are UT (so mot enough A), you are aiming to have at least 1.5h naps, that's a restorative sleep for her. You would need to do it for a few days, better to stay at home on those days if you can and try not to tweak anything while you are watching her, just let her be. After those days we can have a look at your log together and see what tweaking can be done and how best to do them.

Like I said, I sounded like you when my LO was that age and I realized two things. One, that in this age there is really no harm in AP (and many mommies here will say the same) 'cause it can all be undone a bit later on, around 5-6 months when it's easier to sleep train - do what you need to do to keep you sanity and your sleep
And the other thing is that my LO had very confusing tired cues, still does actually, so I became a clock watcher. I knew that Tracey said not to do that, but I also knew that it's not going to work for me otherwise.
There is a lot of info here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=186622.0
I hope it helps for now, I am here for more

[~*erin*~]

Thanks so much! I tell myself every day, several times a day to calm down, but am guilty of not being able to take my own advice! haha.

My oldest seemed to fall into a routine so much easier, and maybe that's part of the reason why it's so hard now. To this day, if there is something off her routine, she gets upset! (ie. has to buckle up her booster seat at the table before getting shoes on for daycare, no matter what! haha. And god forbid you don't let her buckle it up!)

I was actually keeping a log for about 2 weeks and then stopped when we went up to the cottage last week for the week; and wouldn't you know, her naps were still horrible, but she only got up once for a NF each night we were there! Now we're home again, and the last 2 nights, she's up twice again .

She doesn't generally wake up super cranky, but mostly sounds annoyed like, why am I still in this crib and this swaddle contraption? (I use a SwaddleMe blanket that velcros her in.... cruel to be kind ) And then as soon as she sees me, she's all smiles, even after a 30min nap.

As for cues, I can hardly tell when she's hungry because she's figured out she likes to knaw on her hands. But have figured out that she doesn't always yawn when she's tired, she sort of honks like a little goose and around her eyes get all red, so at least that's something.

Will try the log again, but may not be able to for a few days with the weekend coming up (always have errands to do as a fam) and some appointments next week. But will definitely write things down anyway.

Thanks so much for your support; it's greatly appreciated!

ps - I fed her at noon, and she drank a lot, then was fussy so swaddled her and put her back on the boob and she drank a ton more. Might try that for a few days, see if it helps get her better feedings.

[ZacsMumme]

hugs, what is her A time at the moment Or her current EASY (yesterdays or so)

[Ima shel Alon]

Let me know how you are doing once you logged things. Have a nice weekend!

[~*erin*~]

Ok, so she just turned 15 weeks yesterday (so about 3.5 months now)....
Here's what our days have been like the last few days: (sorry, this might be long! However, they are greatly improved from what they were, so maybe something is just "clicking" with her due to her age?)

SATURDAY
WU 710
E 715
A
S 840-935, had to reswaddle at this time and replug soother, 940-948, replug again, slept until 1010
E 1020
A
S 1135ish-130ish ( I woke her)
E 135
A
S 3-415ish (I woke her)
E 430
A
S 540-610ish in wrap
E 7
S 725ish
NF 115am
very restless at 530, tried to resettle/replug in crib, ended up holding her in chair for about 30min to keep her asleep...

SUNDAY
WU 655
E7
A
S 830ish-910ish bc she busted out of swaddle (I think I have the only baby who sucks on her hands to play instead of to soothe! haha), reswaddle and back to sleep 930-945ish
A
E 1010
A
S 1045-110
E 120
A
S 240ish-325 got her arm out again!
A
E430
A
S 510ish - 545 in wrap
A
E 645
S 720ish
NF 115

MONDAY
WU 625
E 640
A
S 8-845 got her arm out but was happy and wouldn't go back to sleep
A
E 945
A
S 1015-1220 (figured out a better way to swaddle to keep her arms in)
A
E 1250 (tried a bottle of BM, drank 3.5oz)
A
S155-240 replug soother, back to sleep 245-325
A
E 4
A
S 5-545
A
E 645
S 715ish
woke at 1230, replugged
Then I woke her at 330 for a feed (didn't want a later one as anything later than this effects her morning WU feed)

TUESDAY
replugged at 545
WU 7 (I think.... she got really tired really fast, so maybe she was up earlier)
E 710
A
S 815-9, snuggled in chair with her and back to sleep 920-1005 (put her back in crib around 940, and woke her from this one)
A (driving to friend's house)
E 1040
A
S 1135-1240 in sling going for a walk with friend, she woke a couple times for a few minutes
A
E 125
A
S 205-345 (had to replug at 3)
A
E 415
A
S 525 for maybe 10-15 min
A
E 650
S 710
NF 115
replugged at 445
sat with her from 530-615 and put back in crib - these restless times, she is pulling up her legs a lot but no gas coming out which I think is the problem because during her first feed after waking up she has a huge poop

WEDNESDAY (today, so far)
WU 710
E 715
A
S 840 --- woke at 915, wide awake happy ... I'm going to try and resettle though (argh! she was falling asleep even before she hit the mattress!!!!! what gives!) Ok, yup, was able to resettle by APing in my arms (I got to close my eyes for a few minutes too!) sleeping from 935-1020 (I woke bc had to go out)

so, what are your thoughts? I know, this looks pretty good, especially considering my previous complaint and considering the fact that up until about a week ago I was ONLY getting 30-45min naps all the time.

Thanks

[~*erin*~]

any thoughts? advice? thanks!

[Ima shel Alon]

It does sound like you are doing better, that's great.
IIWY I'd up the first A a little bit, maybe to 1:45h because it sounds like she could be a little UT for that nap. You are just around the corner from upping all her A, I would say that if you see there is no change in the waking up in the middle of the naps then she is ready for more A time for all her naps.

It does sound to me like tummy in the EW, are you burping her after the NF?

[~*erin*~]

Yes, I was thinking it might be time to increase her A times a bit as well. In fact, today, I've increased each one (somewhat unintentionally) by 5min only (her 1st nap she did 1.5hr all on her own; her 2nd one she woke after about 50min, and took only 5 min of me settling her to go back down).

I do burp her after the NF, and she gets some good ones out, but still so grunty!!! This morning she was fine though; it seems to be every other day. I'm thinking of trying out BioGaia ... she just had a small bout of diahrrea last week as well, and I know that it can help in that dept too .....

Thanks.

[Ima shel Alon]

Sorry, I have no experience with probiotics.
It's great you got better naps. When you are upping the A you do it by 10-15min (or less if you prefer) and keep the new A for 3-4 days to see a real result. That's how long it takes them to settle into the new A and also prevents OT.