3 week old EBF DS - question about introducing a bottle, and Bf'ing within EASY

[lynners]

So far breastfeeding is going much better with my DS2 than DS 1 - Hoorah 

Could do with a little guidance on a few points though.

Although DS sticks well to a 3 hour EASY during the day, nights are difficult and I want to introduce a dreamfeed to help.  BF' ing at night always involves a lot of latching on, coming off etc, before finally settling in for a feed.  As such I think a bottle would be better (and DH could help).

My concern is that if the first time my LO comes across a bottle is at a 10/11 o'clock DF then it might be a shock to the system.  Perhaps we should first introduce a bottle at his 7 o'clock feed instead and then his dream feed?  Don't want to use up too much of our pumped breast milk though.  Any ideas?

Also during the A time of DS's EASY, because he has been so newborn and sleepy, I have been feeding him once he wakes up, he'd then fall asleep and I'd spend the next half an hour trying to wake him up again.  I'd then give him another feed towards the end of the hour then swaddle him which was enough to wake him up a bit to ensure that he was going to bed drowsy.

The last couple of days DS is starting to be more alert but I'm finding myself too nervous to give up the EAEAS pattern even though he is not falling asleep at the breast as much.  I'm worried that he won't have had enough milk to see him through his sleep, but I'm probably creating potential snacking type issues if I don't stop at some stage.  He's certainly not 'asking' for more milk at the end of the hour but will take it when offered.  Any advice please?   

[lmvanmeter236]

I introduced a bottle of EBM to my DS at 3 weeks and he took it like a champ... and that was his night feed from the DH.  Also, BFing was going super well for us.

My LO was eating every 2 hours and would take an hour to eat bc he would always fall asleep and we played the sleep-eat-sleep-eat game.  About 3 wks he started spitting up and looking back now, I was overfeeding him bc I kept popping him back on during the hour.  He was learning to eat more efficiently by then.  Plus, we did start to get into the "snackbar routine", so I stopped popping him back on and his feeding time went down a ton... and he was still getting plenty to eat.  I would caution you to watch the EAEAS routine going forward. 

I had a hard time with the A part bc LO would fall asleep while burping, but at that age you have to remember that staring at the ceiling fan counts as an Activity for them.  As long as your LO is in a decent routine, which it sounds like he is... I wouldn't be too concerned with the A time.

Even now my DS is 9 weeks, eats every 3 hours in the day and sleeps anywhere from 5-7 hours at night... our A time is still pretty limited, but increasing for sure!

[Fiver]

Sounds like he's doing great, congratulations!

The idea of the DF is that they are asleep when you do it, so he may not even notice that something is different.

As for the EASY, he's still really small and sleepy.  I found with my DD that things came good after a few more weeks where she was a bit more awake and didn't drop off quite so easily.

[Erin M]

I think once you're sure he's getting good feeds and not falling asleep during them, then I'd try to drop the second feed in the EAEA pattern. 

[lynners]

Thanks ladies,

Yes think we will go for the DF with bottle rather than trying it first at his 7 o'clock feed.

I agree I should be careful with the EAEAS.  He has been putting on weight steadily so I think he eats pretty efficiently.  He also pulls himself off the breast when he finishes either to fall asleep or sometimes when still awake so he probably has had enough. (BTW I know it's great that he pulls off when finished rather than suckling for comfort!!!)

How do people suggest I deal with the last feed though (7-8ish)?  I think I would rather have the feed at the end of the 1 hour awake time rather than at the start...although he may wake from his previous nap hungry...resulting in an EAEAS pattern again.  Any ideas?   

[Fiver]

I don't know what time his previous wake up would be, but you could treat it like a bit of a cluster and feed when he wakes and then a top up at bedtime.    You'd probably find that as he gets a bit older that that one would just drop off naturally.

[lynners]

I wake him up at 7pm at put him down at 8 so yes it would be about 15min E at the start of the hour awake time and 15-25 min at the end.  Maybe you're right and I think of it as a cluster feed then EAE(tiny A)S is ok for last feed only?

[lmvanmeter236]

Could always try a bath or massage after his 7/8pm feed, so LO will eat, bath/massage, sleep and then DF at 10 and back down (or never up really if you sneak that bottle in while he is in his crib.)  I wouldn't be concerned with timing his awake time in the evening/ night...

[Erin M]

Mine always clustered at that point in the day, and at 3 weeks, many LOs are cluster feeding.  I think you're fine to do that extra feed in there right now and let your EASY work it out as he gets older.

[lynners]

OK, so I've dropped the EAEAS and he still seems to be sleeping well in the day generally.  Cool.  We've started the breast milk bottle dream feed and have been doing it for a week  On the plus side, he's not waking up and he's not rejecting the bottle.  So far though he only takes 10-20ml and it doesn't seem to make a huge difference to his waking up time.  I suppose we should keep trying but it does seem a lot of effort for not much reward - and we're throwing away a lot of wasted breast milk.  Boo.

FYI our nights tend to be -

E - 7.00 pm (Has had enormous feed offering both breasts)
S - 8.00 ish
DF - 10.30
E - anytime b/n 1 and 2.30 (which is pretty good, but seems to happen with or without DF)
next E anywhere from 4.00 onwards)

LO is on the 98th percentile and was born 10 pound 2.  He's big for his age.  He eats well and quickly (although we do have quick let-down and wind issues)

Anyway any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[Fiver]

That looks perfect for a 4wo

[lynners]

Thanks.  So do you think it's worth continuing trying with the DF?

[Fiver]

We never bothered with one as I just couldn't make it work (I wasn't great at expressing and could never get a boob in either mouth while they were asleep!)

On the other hand, others have great success with it and you might find that over time he takes more at the DF than he does now.  What about putting a bit less in the bottle if he's not drinking it all?

[lynners]

So anyway we've been trying an expressed bottle feed as a DF for over 2 weeks now and it's just not working.  The max he's taken is about 20ml and more than often it's nothing.  I was really hoping this would work so I could go to bed early and my husband could help out.

The last four nights I've tried a BF dreamfeed and he's gulped it...so he can feed at that time...just not working as a bottle feed.  Th first two nights when I DF'd him with BF at 10 he slept through until 3 and then 6 so I got a good chunk sleep and it was definitely worth staying up.  The next two nights he's been waking at 1ish, 4ish and 6ish which is what we were getting with no DF or just the bottle feed.  As I'm staying up later to give him the DF it means I got less sleep than normal and he was still waking up as much.  Boo.  Very tired and am suffering from mastitis - not fun.  Have had to take anti-biotics but at least it's improving.

Do you think it's worth hanging in there?  We had lots of success with DF's with DS1 so I know it's possible.   Sooo wish it was working with the bottle (by the way we've tried a couple of bottles during the day and he seems happy to take them.)

Would appreciate any advice.

[Fiver]

Have you tried the milk at a different temperature in the DF?  DS was really fussy about the temp of EBM, but then we didn't ever manage to do the DF.