Won't sleep all night, won't nap

[LRoeb919]

Hi all! I just joined the forum and have tried to find answers to this...some are similar but still need advice.

We recently moved states, and .my 9month old won't sleep throught the night and won't nap. I'm exhausted..no fam to help and my husband works late so it's all on me. I'm doing the put down method...I must not be doing something right.

For her naps, I do the put  down for FOREVER...well, basically until it is time for her to eat again...then, she falls asleep nursing..(which is what she wants). I put her in her crib..she wakes up and we have  to do the put down all over again until next feeding. I feel like Im not doing it right...? I don't feel right not feeding her...??

At night, I do the put down for at least an hour to get herto go to sleep...then she will wake up around 12 or 1 am and then again around 4 am. I just nurse her back to sleep. I'm so exhausted and we have neighbors so I find it hard to do put down with her crying.

Any advice? I'm finally getting to be a stay at home mom and I'm so exhausted. She's never been a great sleeper, but daycare always just rocked her to sleep and she only took cat naps.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Lauren

[becj86]

Hi, welcome

What does your DD's day look like - what routine are you aiming for and what is actually happening? Please include times, eg.
7 - wake, eat
10 - nap
etc.

Here's when to do PUPD: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=209636.0
Here's how: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=208990.0

[LRoeb919]

I did easy until she was 12 weeks...worked Great!  Then, daycare...they kept her feedings the same, but the naps went downhill and were never the same each day.

She was beginning to sleep through the night at 8.5 months...then she got sick, and we moved for my husbands job...the wakings really picked up then!

I've have been home with her for about 2.5 weeks and am trying to get her back on easy...here is her day thus far..

6:30 am...wake..nurse.
7:15 or so...breakfast ( fruit cereal).
815/8:30 - usually a cat nap while I get ready ( watches Elmo)
9am nurse
..begins to go downhill from here...
12 nurse
1230/12:45- lunch
3:00 nurse
..maybe a nap...
515/530 nurse
6:00 dinner
715/730 nurse to sleep..super tired baby!
12:30/1 am wakes up, nurse back to sleep
4 am wakes up, nurse back to sleep ( has a harder time going to sleep)


No real afternoon nap bc I can't get her to take one...if she does it will be from 3-4pm, as she nurses herself to sleep. I like this nap time but it's rough b.c she's so tired and won't nap before.

 Also, I'd love to move to the four hour feeding, but I kinda feel like I have to do one thing at the time, ya know? Sleep Better then move to four hour routine...your thoughts?

We were both crying from fatigue yesterday. I've tried an earlier nap in the afternoon with the put down method...she just screams until the next feeding. I've also tried keeping her up a bit later...that backfires!

Ive read the book over and Over, thinking I'm doing something wrong.

Thanks so very much for responding!

[becj86]

PUPD is not what you need here, at least not yet. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69187.0 http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=36950.0

What have you tried in terms of sleep training before PUPD? From what you've said, I wonder if this might be a method more in tune with how you want to wean the feeding to sleep: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

I think you need to get some sleep into her, get her into a stable and predictable routine, then once that's settled and she's more rested, break the feed to sleep prop. Its a hard prop to wean, I won't lie, but I think you need to get into a routine so she's got something consistent to hang onto when do the sleep training.

Also, I'd love to move to the four hour feeding, but I kinda feel like I have to do one thing at the time, ya know? Sleep Better then move to four hour routine...your thoughts?

I think she's probably snacking with feeds every 3hr and solids in the mix too. I'd say if you want her to take full feeds, you need to move your milk feeds out now. On 3hr EASY, she's never going to be tired enough to get a restorative nap and she'll end up even more tired. You need to get back on track using a more age-appropriate routine as a base, then tweaking from there.

I'd try this routine:
6:30 - wake, milk
7:30 - breakfast
10:00 - nap
11:30 - wake, milk
12:30 - lunch
3:00 - nap
4 - wake, milk
5:30 - dinner
6:30 - BT milk
7 - bed
I'd try shush/pat or cuddling her til drowsy then putting her down and holding a hand on her back and if that doesn't cut it, then feed her to sleep. She is so OT that in my opinion, she's not going to learn anything from the sleep training at this point. Great if she goes to sleep without feeding but if she needs to suckle for a bit to get to sleep, do that for now til we can find a routine that fits her needs, then start sleep training when you're confident she's actually ready for sleep when you put her down.

Does she have anything happening that may make sleep harder - teething? reflux? illness? Just wanting to know, as sometimes these make sleep training a bit pointless but there are things you can do while you wait.

[LRoeb919]

Thank you so much for all of your advice....I've been trying what you suggested.  The four hour routine is such a relief! I feel free as I am not trying to be somewhere I can nurse every three hours! It took us time to get to the four hours but well worth it! I hadn't though about her just snacking every three hours so thank you!,

First in answer to your question, for sleep training..we did pu/pd when she was younger...worked and only took like 2 nights...I tried it again and it just wasn't working..probably bc we were both OT like you suggested.  I've never let her cry it out. The only thing I can think for all these wakings is all the change...we moved states, no more daycare, different room,etc. and she was sick before we moved so I had to nurse one demand to keep up her fluids...now, she's addicted!

She will now take a good afternoon nap...but she won't nap in her crib...which I believe is bc daycare rocked her everyday for six months for all naps. She will fall asleep on me and then i will lay her on the couch near me, but not touching me.  I know I will have to fix this at some point, but I'm just happy she sleeps right now.

The morning nap...we walk in the morning bc it is so hot here and she falls asleep on the walk...it's probably too early for her to go to sleep ( we walk about 1.5 hours after she wakes up). I'm not sure how to fix this as it is so hot we have to walk early and I need the exercise for my sanity. Some time she will nap later in the morning , but most of the time not. The nap on our walk pk is about 30min long.

Everyone (mom, sister and my mother in law), all feel she needs to just cry it out at night but I just can't do that! So mean!

We've started trying pu/pd again bc I have no clue what else to do...I'll  nurse early and then rock her and put her down. She cries and cries and then finally goes to sleep. But, she still wakes up ..two times per night and claws at my shirt wanting to nurse....do I nurse? Or do pu/pd? She eats a good bit...

If we are up doing pu/pd at say 12am and then 3am, she will no doubt be tired the next day...do I let her naps go for as long as she wants?. Or will that flip her days and nights?

Last night she woke up at 1030pm ..rocked her, no nursing, then again at 1230am,225am and then at 445am...fed all three times as she clawed at my shirt..

Thank you again! I so appreciate the advice!

Lauren

[LRoeb919]

Also, about how long do I wait Tunis I respond at night? I can't find it in book..I've readit so many times but my brain is so foggy! I k ow I don't want to rush right in...I've been waiting until I can see her standing up on the monitor ...doesn't take her long..perhaps I need to wait longer?

[becj86]

The only thing I can think for all these wakings is all the change...we moved states, no more daycare, different room,etc. and she was sick before we moved so I had to nurse one demand to keep up her fluids...now, she's addicted!

This is a HUGE change in LO's life - her entire surroundings have changed - you are her constant. She may well have some separation anxiety happening - common at around 9 months. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=212037.0

The morning nap...we walk in the morning bc it is so hot here and she falls asleep on the walk...it's probably too early for her to go to sleep ( we walk about 1.5 hours after she wakes up). I'm not sure how to fix this as it is so hot we have to walk early and I need the exercise for my sanity.

This was us too, I just had to walk earlier (get up, feed, out the door) and have DS sitting up in the pram and talk to him about what was happening/what I could see, then I'd stop at a park or something, finish off the A time with playing on the grass/equipment (included a finger food snack) and then put him back in the pram, walk home and if he fell asleep in the pram then, it didn't matter so much as I could just stick him in bed and let him keep sleeping and his nap was at the right time.

What's her EASY look like now?

Also, about how long do I wait Tunis I respond at night? I can't find it in book..I've readit so many times but my brain is so foggy! I k ow I don't want to rush right in...I've been waiting until I can see her standing up on the monitor ...doesn't take her long..perhaps I need to wait longer?

Yeah, if she's happy, leave her to it. If she starts to cry for you, that's when you go in

[LRoeb919]

Yea, I know the move was probably hard for her...major environment change. The doc told me to do "tough love" after about a week in our new place, but I just can't do that. We've been here now for over a month so I'm so ready for some sleep!

Here is where we are:

630am..wake, nurse
730 am...food
-walk by 8 am and she often falls asleep for about 30-40 minutes of it.
**there have been a few times where she's blessed me with sleep after her 4 am feed until 7am, and I've deviated from this bc I Just had to sleep.

1030am nurse
12noon..lunch

At about 130-2pm she will nap until about 330pm. By me on the couch or on my chest ( we try for the couch). I'd love the curb, but I tried that before for three days..each day, she screamed for 1.5 hours as we did pu/pd, and then it was time to nurse again.

330pm, wake, nurse
530 or 6pm, dinner
7:15 pm nurse one side...then diaper change....then nurse the other side. I started adding the diaper change in between sides in effort to put her to bed awake...Doesn't always work...on the rare times it works, I have to rock her until she's drowsy again...then out her down in the crib, she pops back up, so we rock again and then I out her down again, etc. my back was just breaking with the pu/pd.

She will wake and sit up a few times...around 830 and 930... I pop the pacifier in, and shush her. She gives this weird squeal cry. She's got a squeal she laughs at during the day so maybe she's dreaming about that...?

12or 1230am...she wakes, stands and cries. I go right in,  Nurse to sleep.
4 or 430am..same thing..nurse to sleep...Much harder to settle...she will wake several times after and needs help settling (rock, passy, etc).

It's a work in progress...she seems to keep the four hour schedule all night. .I'm just so exhausted!,, it's like I get up at 4am everyday as I don't really get back to sleep.

I plan to nurse her earlier for a few days to see if that helps. I'm just at a loss. shes so happy all day...

I truly appreciate all of your advice!

[becj86]

Honestly, if you can keep her day to 12hr, she can probably get by quite fine with that amount of day sleep. Those wakings and hour or two after BT are likely OT wakings - I'd suggest bringing that afternoon nap a little earlier (say 12:30-2:30) and making bedtime no later than 6:30 and see how it goes.

That 4/4:30am wakeup is probably also OT - adrenaline in her system making it hard for her to get back to sleep... A few days of the earlier bedtime may knock that off or at least shift it back to 3 so you've got more of a chance to get her back to sleep.

[LRoeb919]

Thank you, I'll give that's try. I put her to bed earlier tonight. I had to rock her to settle her, and she surprised me by Falling asleep before I could put her down...but she woke up a bit later and I just shushed her...that is a plus, no picking up on that one...

Last night, she woke up every two hours....so I'm Praying the earlier bedtime works!, or like you said, at least moved the 4 am back to maybe an earlier time.

Thank you again! I'm so glad I found this forum!

Lauren

[becj86]

If the longer night doesn't make a difference, maybe we need to look at discomfort as a possible issue. OT is a major cause of frequent wakings but if she's still waking frequently once she's not so OT, then she may have a level of discomfort there from teething or reflux or illness.