Wind help please!

[Floofymad]

Gah! Am literally at the end of my tether!

LO started on Aptamil, Dr Browns and Level 1 teats. Drank too slow and took ages, so moved to level 2 teat at 4/5 weeks. Was better. Then got really windy, refluxy etc.
Later, diagnosed with reflux and cow's milk intolerance so moved onto Nutramigen. Was much better, but noticed milk was thinner so still reflux. Still windy, so had to burp every 1oz during 6oz bottle. Took forever!
Decided to try Aptamil Anti-reflux, was a brill milk and she downed 6oz easily asking for more. Used Y Cut teats as thicker milk. Within 3 days got horrific constipation which lasted, so went back to Nutramigen.
Tried adding carobel thickener to milk so stayed on the y cut teats, but was so so windy. She drank 8oz really really fast but wasn't sure if it was the teat, or carobel etc that caused the wind so gave up.
Am now back on Nutramigen using a size 3 teat. But still got constant wind issues. She burps during feed (usually wet ones) don't have a problem there, it's that there seem to be constant burps waking her up during naps/nighttime!

Feel like I can't win! On size 2 teat, it took forever and she wouldn't have more than 6oz (probably bored)
On size 3 teat at mo, she's really windy, and still got reflux.
Tried size 4, as experiment. She drank fast and seemed happier, but there was constant wind again!

Aarrrggghh!! Please help!!

p.s. forgot to add, we use infacol before the feed and gripe water after. They both bring wet burps up, but it's getting them all up at the time I need help with!

[Lolly]

Wind is a common problem with refluxers unfortunately! How much is she taking over 24 hours? How long have you been back on the nutramigen for?

Have you only used the Dr Brown's bottles?

Laura

[Floofymad]

Hi
Been back on it for a few weeks. Maybe 3/4. She drinks 4 x 8oz bottles but is tending to leave some during the day when there's wind. Maybe taking 7oz normally. Weve used Dr browns bottles from start apart from originally trying mam anti colic bottles (leaked)
Are there other bottles which might work better???

[creations]

Hi, unless I've missed it somewhere in your post, you don't seem to have mentioned meds for the reflux.  Is she on prescription meds to control the reflux or are you just trying through the various milk formulas and bottles?

[Floofymad]

She was tried on ranitidine/zantac but it had no effect really. We've tried gaviscon infant previously but didnt work that well. We were trying carobel to thicken feed but we had to use y cut teat and I thought this was making wind worse. At the moment I don't think her reflux is causing that much discomfort, it's mainly wind that's doing that. She's often sick with burps or if I lay her down but it doesn't seem to bother her!

[creations]

Personally I would take her back to the peadiatrician regarding the reflux.  What you describe sounds to me totally like an unmedicated refluxer in discomfort.
Reflux isn't just spitting up, the wind (and pain of wind) is part of it.  The frequent NW and disruptions to naps with burps, wet burps, wind etc are all signs of reflux.

I used carobel in size 1 teats right up to about 12 months old.  My DS was able to manage on 1 scoop of carobel to 180ml milk (he is also on ranitidine) and this went through the teat fine.  Admittedly if you are thickening to a very thick feed (3 scoops to 180ml) I cannot imagine that getting through a teat.

I know you said the rantitidne didn't seem to help, it could be a higher dose was needed or another med (omeprazole?).  Maybe read through the symptoms of reflux and silent reflux here, some of it may ring true to you.
http://www.cradle2kindy.com.au/BlogRetrieve.aspx?BlogID=1159&PostID=15358
(scroll down to find the list of symptoms)

[Floofymad]

Thanks
I did try taking her back recently but doc just said I need to ride it out. He seems to think its mainly cows milk intolerance which should be sorted with her milk and because she's putting on weight they're reluctant to do anything???...

[creations]

OK.  I don't want you to feel badgered about it.
In my experience both the health visitor and GP said there was nothing wrong with my LO, he was also putting on weight, but I could see there was a problem.  Unfortunately I've read many similar stories.  It was only when we got a referral to the hospital to see a paediatrician that we got results and DS got the meds he needed.  Even after this, when DS needed a dosage increase the GP said he was on a good dose, the max he could have.  DS continued to suffer until I rang the paediatrician who increased his meds (dependent on weight) to almost four times the amount!  So, I'm afraid I don't have that much faith in GPs, they need to know such a vast range of stuff that I don't think they can really be expected to attend to the specifics of every area iyswim.  I know I would be more assertive with getting help for DS earlier if I had my time again.
That said, YOU are the mummy and only you know what the symptoms are and how bad it is, so like I said, I don't want you to feel badgered.
I hope you find a solution very soon xx

[Floofymad]

Hi
Thank you for your advice. I don't feel badgered at all! I've fought since she was around 3 weeks old to get someone to listen. Even my husband! Where are you based? We're North east UK and to see a paediatrician I'd need a referral off my doctor who obviously thinks she's fine and putting on weight!

[creations]

Hi
I'm also in the UK. NW coast and yes you do need a referral from the GP but simply walk in and say, 'my baby is suffering greatly.  She needs to see a paediatrician please refer us now.'
The GP has no choice.
If s/he tries to put up any resistance just repeat, 'She is in pain, I need you to refer her to the paediatrician please.'

Usually when we go to the GP and we ask THEIR advice and diagnosis, so they give it, and that may be that they think there is not a problem (all babies cry, all babies sick up, all babies have sleepless nights blah blah blah), however if you go in and say you want someone else's opinion (a paed) you will get the referral.
It can be a bit scary being assertive in this way but if you think she has any problem at all then you have the right to get her access to a pead.  You are her advocate.  You speak for her because she can't speak for herself.  So, if you think she is in pain then go for it and don't take no for an answer (I don't think any GP would refuse a referral if asked for one anyway).

You know what, no paediatrician is going to tell you that you wasted their time.  You will get a 10 min appointment and they will say that you did the right thing to seek help for your baby, even if it turns out that she does not need reflux meds, they will still tell you that it is always better to check.  There are some long term effects of untreated reflux which scare the pants off me.  I hope I got my DS treatment soon enough to prevent them but I could cry even now thinking of the delays and his extended discomfort just down to health visitors and GPs who don't know the facts.

Our GP tried to fob us off saying DS was a 'happy spitter' - happy? really screaming all night, waking so many times in sudden pain or sicking up and choking on it.  If it was an adult doing this would they say they are happy?
Our GP also said DS was a 'happy wheezer' and that bit of advice led to him having such difficulty breathing he was admitted to hospital fighting for his life.

Sending referral vibes for you and health vibes for your LO xx

[Floofymad]

Thanks :-)
Have thought about what you said and booked a gp appt. 10 days away but am going to try and get in thurs or fri by ringing first thing on a morning. She's been sick lots today a d her wind is awful. She won't sleep properly either. I'm not a fan of this nutramigen milk she's on. It's so thin and am sure she still can't digest it properly? She might be putting on weight but refluxers comfort eat too. Feeding her today has been a nightmare. It took an hour earlier :-(
What milk was your LO on?
What are these long term effects of reflux that can happen???
My hubby doesn't want her on meds so need plenty of evidence to convince him!

[creations]

So sorry to hear she has not been great today

The link I gave you (reply #5 above) describes some of the effects such as damaged oesophagus and teeth due to the acid.
I understand not wanting your LO on meds, they are so small and vulnerable it is totally the right thing to question whether she should be on meds and which is worse meds or none, plus tyring to think from her point of view too.

We stayed on a regular baby formula but there was no milk intolerance here.  The regular formula I thickened with carobel.

It might be worth you starting a thread on the reflux board to get more experience and eyes to help you and your DH decide what to do?

[Lolly]

The biggest issue really is babies can develop a feed aversion - it hurts to feed so they don't want to feed which can then lead to them getting dehydrated and not gaining weight as they should. When you start solids they can develop aversions to textures and have problems with gagging etc.

Nobody wants their baby on meds, it's a hard thing to accept but the meds are safe, ranitidine in particular has been used on babies for a long time and is pretty free of side effects (never experienced any with my two kids). Drs will also work to get the lowest possible dose of meds to give relief.

Laura