12 week old starting EASY

[EllieH]

My DD is 12 weeks' old and I'm just now trying to get her onto a routine.  It's been a very difficult 12 weeks' so far.  My DH and I have thought from very early on that she doesn't nap so we've only managed to get her to sleep during the day by rocking her and having her on one of our chests or sometimes in her bouncy chair.  That's only been semi successful and so she is basically constantly OT.  I now think that we've probably been missing her nap window and so I now have to try and break the bad habits...

I am feeding three hourly, mostly because she was always awake and it's something I can do to stop her crying (when awake she cries a lot, no doubt because she's OT).

My first step has been to get her to have daytime naps upstairs and to go to bed upstairs.  That has been successful for the last two days in the evening (BT is 7pm ish, though she went down at 6.45pm today) and she did manage three naps today, but each only of 45 minutes.

I will try and keep a record tomorrow of what our day looks like but from memory today was:

W 7am - then changed
E 7.15am
A 7.45am

We then had to go out for her vaccinations.

S 9.30am
W 10.00am - I didn't try and get her back to sleep; changed her
E 10.30am
A 11am
S 12.10pm
W 12.45pm - I did try to get her back to sleep by rocking her while she sucks her fingers (her self-soothing mechanism) but without success; changed her
E 1.30pm
No real A - she was very sleepy
S 2.20pm
W 3.05pm - I spent 50 minutes doing PUPD, ssh/pat but without success
Went out in pram for an hour

Bedtime routine (feed/bath/feed/bed) 5pm - 6.45pm

SO - my questions at this stage are:

1. How long do I spent doing PUPD etc before giving up for that S slot (bearing in mind I'm feeding three hourly)?  I've read Tracy's interview which says 40 minutes but I can't see how that fits with three hourly feeding.
2. When I pick her up, do I do ssh/pat to try and settle her?

Two other points that might be relevant - I am exclusively BF and I am also exploring with my GP at the moment whether she might have reflux.  I don't know - she cries an awful lot, often inconsolably, but that could just be because she's OT.  She doesn't particularly sick a lot up but does still have a lot of hiccups, grimaces after a burp, has bad gas...

Thanks for any help and I'll post more tomorrow on how the day goes.

Ellie

[jessmum46]

Hi, and welcome

If there is a possibility of reflux this needs to be sorted first before you can do any sort of sleep training - it just won't work for a LO in discomfort   Sorry that you are all struggling with this - those first weeks are hard and if LO is uncomfortable it's even harder.

Have you seen the reflux info here? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0

I agree she sounds really OT but this is hard to overcome if there are other issues at the same time    Until the reflux issue has been explored further, I'd get her to sleep in any way you can - often a more upright position can help e.g. car seat, elevating mattress, swing etc to try and minimise OT as best you can manage.  Bear in mind average A times at her age are 1h20-30 (that's everything eyes open to eyes shut) so if you are trying to get her to sleep much later than this then she will already be OT before you start and therefore much harder to get to sleep/stay asleep.

Don't worry about 'bad habits' at this point - it can all be undone later once LO is more comfortable and we'll all be here to help you get into a good EASY routine.

Just for info for later - PUPD is generally only used once LO is over 4 months, and is not recommended for babies with reflux as it can aggravate the condition.  You would probably be best to stick with shh-pat.  Often babies with reflux don't like to be patted on the back and prefer their bottoms being patted instead

[EllieH]

Thanks so much for that jessmum.

Obviously she'll be down on her back so how do I do shh-pat with her?  Not really sure of the mechanics of that...

[jessmum46]

What I did (my LO slept on her back too at that age) was to get close to her ear/face to say shh, and lay my arm diagonally across her tummy so my hand could pat her hip on the opposite side - would that work for you?  You could also try just laying a hand on her chest, or gently stroking her cheek x

[EllieH]

OK - we seem to be doing alright so far this morning.

WU 6am
E 6.15
A 6.45
S 7.30 - I did shh/pat until 7.55 - her eyes were still occasionally snapping open during this period.  She is now asleep with a white noise CD on.  Let's see how long it lasts...

If she wakes up before an hour and a half, do I try and get her back to sleep until her next feed time?

[jessmum46]

I'd resettle if you can but in honesty I only tried for 20 mins max before just getting her up and moving on with the day, shortening the next A time a little bit to prevent OT.  Sitting shh-patting for hours on end was driving me crazy!!  It's ok to do AEAS if she has a short nap

[EllieH]

So I patted her after about 35 minutes for 30 minutes to get her over the crossover and that seems to have worked.

My next question is how long do I let her sleep?  She went into bed at 7.30 but as I said, I wouldn't really have said she was asleep until about 7.50.  Do I count an hour and a half from 7.30 or 7.50?  Do I wake her up when that point  is reached?

Thank you so much for all your help!

[jessmum46]

Count S time from the time she actually went to sleep - so your first A time was actually 1h50 today.  Well done for getting her past the transition - that's great work!  Personally, given she's been so OT, I'd let her sleep up to 2h if she will - I know this will be more than 3h since a feed but just start your next EAS cycle from when she wakes - by the end of the day you'll probably end up with a couple of feeds clustered together which is fine

[EllieH]

So to continue...

WU 6am
E 6.15
A 6.45
S 7.30 - I did shh/pat until 7.55; patted for 30 minutes from 8.25; unswaddled 9.35

WU 9.40 - initially smiling but then crying - still tired?  some reflux issue?  Hungry?
E 9.50 (three yawns at the end of the feed which I have to say I ignored...)
A 10.20
S 10.50 - I did shh/pat until 11.10

Does this look to be going the right way?  Her A time other than E feels VERY short now - but maybe that's just in comparison with what's gone before that was making her OT!  Did I do wrong to ignore the yawns?  Should I have got her back into bed then?  But if I did, she'd only have been awake for 40 minutes!

I am also a bit worried about how this all feeds into the evening as we do have an established routine from 5 and on the current timings I will end up feeding her at something like 3.30/5/6...

[jessmum46]

Looks great to me   Well done!  The yawns can be 'waking up yawns' or also LOs true chronic tiredness showing because she's more rested, IYKWIM?  She would have almost certainly been UT after just 40 mins.  A time of about 1h30 sounds good as well - just think of all the "Y" time!  Don't worry about how the evening works - often you find you'll get a short nap somewhere and it evens out.  Are you bottle or breast feeding? 

[EllieH]

All gone wrong...

She woke up after only half an hour at 11.40.  I tried pat/shh in her basket for 15 minutes - she just cried more.  I got her out and put her against my chest and she did calm a little but not much.

She's now up and sitting in her bouncy chair.  She's been in it about two minutes - two yawns already.  And another...

I'm breastfeeding her.  I'm really unsure what to do now 

OK - so:

E 12.30 - didn't know what else to do even though that was 20 minutes from 3 hours
A 12.50
Tried S but did ssh/pat from 1.10 to 1.50 without her going to sleep.  She dropped off three times but didn't stay asleep.  I have now got her up and she is back sitting in her bouncy chair.  Now though she has basically been awake since 11.40.

I feel totally at sea with this - just like I'm not getting anywhere.  Don't know if it could be reflux or if I'm getting something wrong or if she's too OT to sleep.  Hopeless...

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) Ellie - don't be so hard on yourself - you are doing great!  As I said in my original post, you really mustn't expect too much of LO or yourself if there is a possibility of reflux.  That 30 min nap sounded like discomfort to me   It was a good A time and previous nap was good so I wouldn't have thought hugely OT.  Have you had a chance to read the reflux info yet?  can you push your GP for a trial of meds to see if that helps your LOs symptoms?

Don't despair - things do get easier as LO gets older.  Just do what you need to at the moment for your own sanity and to get LO some rest by whatever means.  Any "bad habits" can be undone later   Fingers crossed for seeing the doctor xx

[EllieH]

Thank you 

I've just had a good long chat with one of my friends and am feeling calmer now.  It's been a horrid afternoon.  She didn't go back to sleep again after waking at 11.40 but has now fallen asleep in her bouncy chair.  It may only be going to be temporary but it's better than nothing.  Feeding's all gone askew and will have been 2 hourly/2.5 hourly this PM but ho hum.

I did read the reflux info, thanks.  Also got a follow up appt with GP on Monday.  We went last Monday and got Gaviscon powders but LO has refused to drink the last three lots I've tried to give her.  I think the GP said she'd give me something different on Monday.

Hopefully bedtime routine will go ok when I get to 5 o'clock and she'll go down at her usual time... then I'll tackle tomorrow with DH here too.  He's a teacher so this week has been my first week since LO arrived that I've been totally on my own - that certainly won't have helped today....

Thanks for the support x

[jessmum46]

  Let me know how it goes xx

[EllieH]

Right - on ranitidine now as gaviscon was getting us nowhere. 

I can get her to sleep at present but she sleeps for no longer than 45 minutes.  Apart from the effect on my Y time, how much of an issue is it if that doesn't change, if she seems happy with the amount of sleep she's having (which she doesn't really)?  Most of the time at the moment my EASY is more like EASAEAS etc...

(Put LO on her playmat for some enforced tummy time 10 minutes ago - and she has just fallen asleep when she's meant to be starting her bedtime routine!)