Your A-time at 17m? I am losing it with 2:1, short nap and nw :(

[Claudiamummy]

Hi all,

We finally bit the bullet and went to one nap, I am not sure she was 100% ready but after a cn, then a1.5hr sleep she needed 5.5hr A before bed so this Wk went as follows

Sunday 5.40a = 2 hr nap!!
Fought bt did 6 hr A with nw

Monday 5.45a 1hr20 nap woke  happy so we rolled with it
She did 5.5hr A before bed and sttn!!! Wu at 6.30am (10.15hrs which is good for us it was 9hr on one nap)

Tues
6 hr a fighting nap to point of being asleep on me
Wu 50 mins crying tried to resettle but only got 15mins or so
Tried early bt at 5hrs A, she would not settle until 5.5

Last night bt was 7.30
Nw at  12 (drink cuddle)
2 wu but resettled herself
3.30am needed me to settle again
4am settled herself
5am wu crying I ap in bed until 7am

Today
Yawning periodically through the morning but fought nap again
Our wd has always been cuddles while I potter then up to bed, but she is writhing in my arms, wanting to get down, I have tried to go a bit earlier but she is is not having it!!!

I think we do have teeth coming, but what the he'll is an "average A time?? Dd has been high sleep needs and these long A are freaking me out, I just keep seeing the clock going and going and I know I am gonna be up all night, I just cannot get her down earlier!!

I sound a bit desperate but it was tears earlier, I am over it.
The mornings are a bit better that 5.30am but after only 3-4 sttn in about 10months I am starting to lose it

Should I reintroduce cn and long day or stick it out?

Hugs appreciated I am weepy and self pitying today

[Claudiamummy]

Sorry I should add dd is a 50% independent sleeper
At nt She will NOT go into her cot a minute before she is ready to sleep, so we do quiet time books and bf, then we go into her room as she is ready.

Naps as I mentioned are cuddles

The early starts were on 2 naps 5-5.30... Forever!!
These are easing although I still need to do some ap but she seems happy to resettle with me, I don't mind that.

Today when she first woke up she just sat up and didn't cry imeadiatley
I got her back down but she woke after 15min and would not go back...she is happy enough but I feel sick that she is "running on empty"

[*Becky*]

Hi hun,
So is she sleeping on you for naps? How long has that been going on? Is that whether she does 1 or 2 naps??
Is she teething? Do meds help??

It is really hard to talk about A times at this age as there is so much variation i.e. some are doing 2 naps and 3-4 hour A times while others are on 6 hours.

If it were me I would ditch the CN now. She is 17 months so a pretty good age for 1 nap and I do think the CN is going to cause more issues really particularly if she does not want to go down for it.

So what I would do is set a time for her nap i.e. 11am and just give it a good 4-5 days before changing anything at all. You can be a bit flexible with BT but aim to have her asleep 13 hours MAX after she wakes in the am and if she short naps then earlier.

What do you think?

[Claudiamummy]

Hi Becky, thankyou so much for yr reply!

No, I get her very drowsy (almost asleep) but she is always awake when going into her cot. She complains a bit but she settles.

Yesterday she hardly ate, making me think teeth are hanging around but I can't properly see... It's either lower canines or upper molars (the lower ones arrived April and July)

Last night was a tough again, could NOT get her quiet, she ended up with a 6 hr A!!!
Asleep at 8pm
Wu 12.45
Finally settled her at 1.50am (Inc changing wet nappy)
She wu at 3ish but settled herself
Wu at 4am could not settle her, at 5.05 I calmed her down and we both slept until 7.25 am

Today she went to sleep at 12.55 (5.35 mins A)
Wu at 40 mins screaming (1.40pm)
I gave her meds and settled her this took 20mins (until 2pm)
It's now 3pm and she still sleeping, I plan in waking her at 3.30

I don't mind ap-ing if I need to in the early am, but the nw are killing me and I am just all over the place on if she is OT or UT as she will NOT let me wind her down.... Is this usual with 2-1??

Today we walked with her in her toddler- sling to calm her down then I came in and got her into her cot (she wasn't happy about that ha!!)

On 2 naps for the last month I could set my watch by her.... Hating this, although it's only been a week

We seem to be hovering around a 7.30 wu ( even with the Snuggle in bed this is utter luxury, I have had months of 5.30!)
So I am thinking nap at 1
I have noticed she seems to get us to s 13hour day but will go with 8pm or 8.30 bt (depending on nap)


Oh 'sigh' when will it calm down??

Ps sorry gave calpol last night at 7, it did cross my mind she woke as that was " running out" but I also think she's OT

Oh my lord I get so OVER the sleep battle day and night...

Grrr rant over
:£

[*Becky*]

I notice she is touchy...DS is touchy with sleep and they are sensitive little souls..
He struggled a lot with teeth but there is hope for you. Once all his teeth were through he actually became a good sleeper.

It does seem like teeth are an issue as you said she woke once the calpol was wearing out and also settled after the meds mid nap. Going to 1 nap and teething is a big deal for a touchy!

We are also slowly transitioning DD to 1 nap and I completely get you on hating it. On 2 naps i know what she can do and what she can handle and it is all lovely and predictable but on 1 nap it is new territory...weird!

If she is up at 7.30am then I would aim for 12.30/1pm depending on how your night was. I think at this age she 'should' be able to get herself to sleep and I do wonder if she is actually very OT by the time she goes down if she has to get to the point of being really drowsy yk? What happens if you just do a simple wind down and pop her into bed??

[clairebear79]

Agree with Becky I think the taking ages to settle & short naps suggest OT.  Its a big thing when they make the move to 1 nap, they have to stay awake for so much longer than they are used to & it can take a good few weeks for them to settle into it.  Unfortunately during this transition, its pretty hard to escape OT, so the best things you can do to minimise it are to keep her first A time at around 5hrs initially, 5.5hrs absolute max & do some early bedtimes. 

My DS was a bit earlier to transition to 1 nap (started at 12 months & by 15 months was only doing 2 naps if he was poorly).  At around 17 months was doing

Up: ~7am
Nap: 12.30-2.30
Bed: 7.30

Many folks find that the above but with a 7pm BT is a good starting point for 1 nap.

Just one other thing to throw into the mix is a big developmental leap (wonder week) at 17 months which can also send things a bit wonky.  Hang in there!x

[Claudiamummy]

Claire and Becky thankyou!

She is a touchy on sleep, so I know I need to give her a break on this big change. I have given her nurofen tonight and we went with 5.5 first A crying 40 mins into nap for 20mins but the slept for an hr and ten. I actually went with a 5 hour A ( this meant she had done a 13hr day) she settled well so it's fingers crossed!!!!

Before this transition I would have attempted popping her in the cot but at the moment, it's a nightmare trying to calm her.... Even just holding her is a mission! But I hear what you are saying, I do think that needs to be worked on, BUT I also need to drop her last bf ( just before bed!!) so I am thinking try to settle into one nap first then work on aiming to her settling herself. Her reaction is standing up getting a 100 times more hyper (yuk!!)
Thanks SO much for standing by me on this...

[*Becky*]

yes I would def work on the routine first as dropping the BF will be easier if she is not UT etc....

You will get there, it is so hard trying to get through transitions with a touchy teething lo!

[Claudiamummy]

Quick update....

Better night!
Asleep at 8.15 (5hr a)
Nw 12 quickly resettled after a nice cuddle and drink
Then didn't wake u till 5.20!!, now with thelonger pm A, I have seen her resettle her almost imeaditatley, but today it was awake asleep (with me snuggled)
This told me she does need 5.5a. So she fell back to sleep at 6.20 and slept unt 7.20

We did 5.5a this am, and she went down well (I medicated her before)
She had an hr and 35mins and woke up ok...

Gonna aim for 5.5A again and see where it goes

[clairebear79]

Good luck.  Keep a close eye on her for tired signs tonight.  if she already did 5.5hrs before nap & slept 1h 35, 5.5hrs after her nap aswell might be a bit too much.  I seem to think when we first transitioned, we had a shorter morning of 5hrs & a longer afternoon of 5-5.5hrs and then as he got used to it this switched to 5.5hrs AM & 5hrs PM.  Now at 2yrs old he does 6-6.5hr AM, 2hr nap and 4.5-5hr PM.

One other thing I found really really helped with DS (and me!) was to stick with a set naptime and bedtime - so initially this was 11am-1pm & 6pm BT (because he was EWing when we first went to 1 nap), then over time we gradually moved it later by 15mins at a time.

[Claudiamummy]

Thanks Claire,

I was out this aft and dh ran her ragged (grrrr) so we ended up with about 5.20 but she was really tired and think she could have gone earlier but will see tonight...
IF we go ok, I am also thinking to move to
"set"

Will keep you posted

[Claudiamummy]

Urrrgh really hard night

Nw at 12-12.30
Nw 3-5am!
This one I just couldn't get her resettled. I checked her nappy-dry, then after about an hr of trying to resettle (in the cot) I checked her again -wet! Changed her tried to settle her, she wasn't getting super upset as I was with her, but she would just let me strike shush her for a bit then be standing up, or leaning over the cot to hug me (this prob looked quite comical as I was on the floor!) by around 4.30 she got really upset (tired not surprising) and I physically couldn't lean over any more so we got into bed and she slept until 6.45... Woke up grumpy (I wasn't feeling my brightest either lol)

Obviously OT from yesterday, I am
Gutted..... And shattered

So we are going with a 5.5 first A, then

[Claudiamummy]

Whooops!!!

Fingers crossed for a 1.5hr sleep then a 5hr A

Claire, can you talk to me about set naps?
My fear is ending up with a massive A before nap and bed as a result of early waking and short naps.

But we are struggling now. Dh and I have no family nearby so we never have any respite, we are barely speaking some days through utter tiredness (and grumpiness)
I know most go through this so I am hanging in there, it just feels relentless at 17m not to have at least a glimpse of sttn?

Hope everyone is well
X

[*Becky*]

uggh, sorry hun. I do think that there are a couple of issues here. Firstly yes she is likely OT and I would pull back that second A time for sure. DS did 5.5 and then 5.5 once he was settled onto 1 nap but it took a good 4-6 weeks before that happened. I would pull back to 5 hours before bed which is what I think Claire said...

Also - are you changing wet nappies at night??? I would leave her well alone unless she has done a BM and as hard as it is if you really want her to learn to resettle and STTN I would take some of the contact away. Sorry, I know that sounds harsh but who would roll over and go back to sleep if they thought they might have a cuddle and sleep with mummy yk?

If she is sick it is different. WIWO is useful if she can sleep independently which I think you said she can?

Set naps is def an option although I must say with touchies it is a bit more tricky. If you were to do a set nap I would be aiming for 1pm (if her average w/u is 7.30am) and then BT of 8pm. This would assume she does a 2 hour nap but hopefully she will adjust to that. The idea with set naps is to stick to it regardless of short naps, later w/u etc so their body adjusts. As I said it can be a bit more scary with touchies and I did not do it with DS but DD being a bit more textbook, I probably will at some point.

Hugs, you are doing great but I do think you need to hold back a bit now. You are not being mean, you are teaching her independent sleep and you have to think of you and DH too...

[Claudiamummy]

Becky thankyou.

I only change her when super wet as sometimes she is totally drenched, and this does wake her (even though I have her a size and a half up in her night nappies!)

It's funny last night I started to think seriously that we need to tackle the contact issue, I completely here what you are saying.

She is "sort of" a independent sleeper, but she will only go into the cot on the absolute verge of sleep so she is not really getting herself off.... I don't know, should I be aiming for that? I think wiwo would make her mental, I know the concept of gw, I just don't know where to start.... Should I just go for it now? I mean we are all exhausted, so can it be any worse???

It's the touchy aspect that frighten the daylights out of me with setting naps, for example today it was a 6.45 start and she wouldn't go into her cot until 5.40A time (12.20) and she was crying, it would have wiped her out to go till 1pm (my preferred time to try and keep a 7.30 start)

It's chicken and egg.... Set her naps and then do gw OR do gw and try to figure out A to set her nap?

After being up all night and the screaming again now at nap time, it's finished us. Dh is back in bed and I just had a good weep, although I am now gonna have a massive bar of chocolate that should help!!:)))

Thank you for listening
X