Breaking OT cycle - 8mos

[becj86]

I have been playing baby einstein (a series of learning DVD's for babies) for her a lot lately as it seems to keep her happy when she's fussy and it's not nap time. Maybe it's too much?

This is probably too much stimulation - DS did sleep much better when I banned TV all day in our house. At 17 months, he's now able to cope but only with a good wind down between TV and sleep.

She's just such an alert baby! In fact that's the first thing people remark on when they meet her, even when she was only a few days old. People are so drawn to her because she's so engaged. i always just assumed that's one of the reasons for the sleep troubles.

This is very similar to Logan. The thing is that everything at this age is stimulating, so new people, places, smells, sounds, touches/textures, tastes, etc. are all combining to create the level of stimulation she's getting. I found at this age that DS needed to be outside a lot, exploring his environment and being able to play with little direction from me. This actually cut down on potential overstimulation and gave him lots of opportunity to practise his gross and fine motor skills too.

If you do errands - try to limit the number you run at one time. Every time you put her in/out of the car, new shop, etc. is another transition she has to cope with and those are tricky for spirited LO's.

Because of this it's hard not to play with her and get her all riled up - she just laughs and laughs and shrieks! (DH espcially loves to get her going, and i'm usually the one telling him to tone it down if it's close to nap time). How do i know when this is normal baby fun and when it's OS?

I think by the time it gets to shrieking, its OS. What I did was allow OS in the first 1/2-2/3 of A time, and ensure quiet play for the last 1/3 to allow DS to calm down slowly. He's not a particularly cuddly baby, so tight hugs were pretty tricky. Its the body contact that is helping, so even if its a hug while you 'fly' her somewhere, it will help.

Thinking on it a bit more, I wonder if the shrieking is their response which we enjoy, but not sure LO's enjoy being OS - I find it hard to cope with the assault to my senses in a perfume section of a shop, or at a festival, or a bit shopping centre with lots of people. I avoid those situations, but when they're unavoidable I tend to talk louder and overcompensate for how uncomfortable I am. I can't say that's how LO's feel when OS, because I just don't know I do wonder though.

Quote from: becj86 on Yesterday at 23:36:17
Can you push her A time up to 3.5hr on a regular basis and watch for tired cues from there?

Bec - I'm assuming here you mean even after a short nap?

More so from the morning onwards. I've noticed you've jumped back to 2hr every few days and its just not enough. If she does a short nap, you could probably watch for tired signs from 3hr, but at this age, she should be able to handle an almost complete A time off a nap as short as 45mins.

[ZacsMumme]

On the OS too, I find for us if Z is outside, left to his own devices to play, or playing with me in grass, with sticks, water, pebbles or flowers etc he has a much better time than with toys and tv. I know it's not always practical, or easy to do, but I truly believe for my spirited boy anyway exploring outside with nature keeps him stimulated, much more entertained without being over excited and getting silly. The natural light helps them to get tired for a nap and fresh air is so so good for them and IMO wares them out more without getting them OS or the opposite - bored HTH

[skatty]

I agree with the outdoors! I guess I am lucky because I live in Denmark and it is a norm for babies and toddlers to sleep outside in their pushchairs for naps so my dd's winddown would be tucked up in her puschair by herself just watching the clouds/listening to the birds, I could put her out there as soon as she was starting to get OS, a lot of the time she would babbles etc but eventually she would fall asleep herself. She could not watcdh TV, we had baby Einstein too and all those bright puppets got her way too excited 

[Jessleigh]

Thank you! All this helps so so much. Doing away with Baby Einstein for the time being and upping the outside time. Hard not having a yard here, but we're planning on moving next summer and a yard is on the priority list!

had a rough day today because of circumstances i couldn't change (places to go that were unavoidable). ONly 2 naps of 40 and 35mins. BT will be 5:30. O man.

Question...

Just gonna external process for a moment. So last night BT was at 6, she slept til 6:30 (!!). Granted i APOPed and nursed back to sleep at 4, 5, and 6. But at least i didn't have to start my day at 5am!

So i thought she'd be rested but she was acting very sleepy all morning. I honestly think i could have put her down at only 2 or 2.5 hrs A time and gotten a decent UT nap. BUt we had an event at 10:45 and i wanted her nap to be pushed out further. I knew i had to put her down at 9:30ish otherwise it'd be too late. I thought it'd be easy given that she was already tired.

We went for a stroll (just holding her, looking at plants, etc) and she was starting to doze (but i kept her up) and we went straight to the WD (which only lasts 3mins or so, a song, her sleep sack, her blankie, kisses and night night.) But she screamed! (not liking this new screaming at nap time thing). The kind of scream that i knew was not going to end any time soon, although i did attempt to settle her with my voice for about 10mins. Because i didn't have time to mess with it, i just took her out, put her in the carrier and went on a walk. She was out in like 2seconds. Slept for 40mins.

So what I'm wondering is is if i want a UT nap and she's acting extra sleepy, i think i could probably put her down sooner than later and she'd be fine (A time of 2hrs or 2.5hrs depending on cues). But bc i waited that extra time, i missed the window and she protested. But wondering if i could have waited to 3.5 hrs A if that would've made it any better?

So I guess my question is, on the extra sleepy mornings (she was yawning, sucking thumb with heavy eyes), do i push A or try putting her down early if i really really think she's ready and hope for a good UT nap? (those tend to be way better than OTs). Or should i really just keep working on this longer A so she gets used to it.

We missed the 2nd window today because we were out (unavoidable) and so when i put her down it was crazy resistance (3.5hrs A) but she finally fell asleep after 15mins (3hrs 45mins A). 35min nap. Poor thing.

I hate feeling like it's all my fault, like if i was just a better mother, if i knew her cues better, or the right thing to do, she'd get better sleep. But, as my DH keeps reminding me, that's not the case. Our daughter is just really touchy with sleep. Just tough right now fighting those feelings and thoughts.

[becj86]

What are you doing when she wakes at 30/35min from an OT nap? If I knew it was an OT waking, I ran in the minute DS made any kind of noise and replugged or patted or whatever I had to do to get him to extend.

So I guess my question is, on the extra sleepy mornings (she was yawning, sucking thumb with heavy eyes), do i push A or try putting her down early if i really really think she's ready and hope for a good UT nap? (those tend to be way better than OTs). Or should i really just keep working on this longer A so she gets used to it.

DS does this behaviour when he is recovering from longer-term OT. So after that longer night, she might just be catching up and you know how you feel when you come down from the adrenaline from being awake too much - just really really tired... I imagine that's how LO's feel but its best to keep them up as best you can to their optimal A time so they get a good restorative nap and can continue to catch up at night rather than getting OT through the day from shorter UT naps IYSWIM.

[Jessleigh]

What are you doing when she wakes at 30/35min from an OT nap? If I knew it was an OT waking, I ran in the minute DS made any kind of noise and replugged or patted or whatever I had to do to get him to extend.

I do the same but can never extend lately. I almost did the afternoon as it was feed time when she woke and during feeding she was falling asleep so i just kept holding her, letting her suckle, hoping to AP the resettle. But alas.

its best to keep them up as best you can to their optimal A time so they get a good restorative nap and can continue to catch up at night rather than getting OT through the day from shorter UT naps IYSWIM

Makes sense. i'll keep it up then. sadly it was a very stimulating day for her w lots going on so hopefully w our empty schedule tomorrow i'll be able to get her down when needed.

Thanks again.

[skatty]

I think whenever yuou can keep her A times really low key, almost like long winddowns, low light, no TV, loud noises etc just lots of cuddling and mum time and she will hopefully manage her A times better without getting OS 

[Jessleigh]

I think whenever yuou can keep her A times really low key, almost like long winddowns, low light, no TV, loud noises etc just lots of cuddling and mum time and she will hopefully manage her A times better without getting OS

This sounds good. not always easy to do as she seems to get bored. Not a huge cuddler. But she does enjoy books so we'll do more of that. Luckily she doesn't have any noisy/ flashing toys. (i've been avoiding those!:)).

Bec - as far as what I'm doing when she wakes at the 30. I actually have been having to not let her see me too much when i go in there (i'm finding it makes things worse lately). This morning she woke immediately at the 30 and flipped right to her belly, did push-up and started crying. I went in, flipped her over, handing her blankie and using voice. Then i sit down where she can't see me and continue using voice when necessary. I did this for 20mins til feed time. Not even close to sleep. jsut really worked up.

Then i noticed tooth #4 has made it's appearance! Going to trying some tylenol again for second nap and watch for tired signs.

On a better note, she slept from 5:45BT to 6:15WU! (with an hour of A time in there from 3am-4am, practicing crawling, 4am feed).

DH put her down at 3.5 hrs A. Took her 20mins to settle tho! She was very tired again the am. the first 10mins she was just rolling around in there, doing push-ups, fussing/talking a bit. Then she started crying and i went in and used my voice to settle her which took 10more mins.

I'm guessing it's just the teeth making this season of sleep so dang hard?!

[ZacsMumme]

The teething will make things harder. Medicating before 20 mins nap and BT can help.
Have you tried W2S I can't remember could work if your getting consistent 30 min naps ... Maybe try at 22/23 min mark.

[Jessleigh]

Haven't tried W2S. Maybe will give it a shot tomorrow.

THings are getting so confusing around here! There's really got to be something crazy developemental going on with her. She's getting so close to mastering crawling. Working on mastering pulling up and attempted to do it on everything. Also just mastered sitting up on her own (finally). Plus 2 new teeth.

Got that 30min nap this am with 3.5hrs. Then went to put her down for nap #2 at 3hrs and after crying for a few mins she started playing and pulling up in the crib which she had never done before and the crib was still on the high setting so that wasn't gonna fly! Took her out for more quiet play while DH lowered crib.

She was still attempting crawling, acting hyper, fussy, squealing, (and we kept things SUPER low key, stayed at home, no music, dvds, not much outside time bc it's too hot right now, talked calmly with her.) and she was still acting crazy. I know she's tired bc her eyes are red. I even gave her her blankie before putting down so she was calm herself down by sucking her thumb and her eyes was drop a bit here and there. So to have her then be playing in her crib and pulling up is so shocking to me. I've never been this confused by her.

So 30mins later i took her for a 2min stroll outside just to calm her and she started passing out right away. Then straight up to nap with quick WD and she was out in 1min. (total A time since 30min nap: 3hrs 50mins!)

But i DID get a 1hr 15min nap! She woke grumpy (and quivering like she does if i have to wake her early) but yay!

That's leads me to wonder if i need to up the morning A time even tho it's seems so tough on her?

[becj86]

I'd keep that morning A time at 3.5hr just for a few days and see how she goes. It can be really hard when they OT short nap the first couple of days but as she gets more used to it, she should extend that nap.

So to have her then be playing in her crib and pulling up is so shocking to me. I've never been this confused by her.

This was pretty common OT behaviour for DS at that age...

[Jessleigh]

This was pretty common OT behaviour for DS at that age...

Really? Ok good to know. Thanks!

[becj86]

Yeah, it seems odd, I know but think of what you're like when you're past tired and get a bit wired...

[Jessleigh]

yep. makes sense.

Looking at sample routines i'm so tempted to bring that morning A time back down. But i guess i'll keep going? Seems like most LO's were doing 2.5-3 hrs A in the am around 9 months.

[Aishi]

Hi

No advice to give but thought I'd add reassurance of a time. My lo is 8.5 months and has had huge a time jumps over last 8weeks. She's currently doing 3h45-50 for both naps and I'm waking from some naps to maintain BT. So don't be afraid of long a times... Hth xx