15 mo, never sttn *update-she did it!!*

[*Becky*]

how's it going claire - any progress? Is she still waking around 4am? Did you try meds?

[C&B&E]

Yesterday she woke at 5.20am - I think better because she'd had two naps. 

I tried her for two naps again but she pooed and would not settle afterwards.  So retried a bit later and she finally conked out at 12, and woke at 12.50 

I tried to get her down for a SEBT but she was in a state again, and took til 6.20pm to settle her.....woke at 4.40am this morning.  This morning her room was freezing (forgotten to put her radiator on) so I ended up bringing her into bed with me.  She ended up having a bit more sleep from 6-7am.

When she was younger she was always on the higher end of sleep needs, and thrived on low A times (pushing them to 'average' times always led to short naps) - so I am wondering whether I should be giving her a couple of two nap days each week to help her catch up on sleep.  She has been having one nap days 95+% of the time and they are not lengthening as she is so OT  .  She is definitely spirited and touchy like Ben! 

When I was feeding her in the night we were actually getting 12-14 hour nights because she would often go back for another couple of hours if I fed her between 4-5am, so I think this may be why she's getting more OT now and struggling more on one nap. 

[anna*]

Well, I'm not one really to take advice on on this but if she's only waking once in the night at 4-5am, I'd just feed her and get your couple of hours more sleep. That's what I do with Audrey. Quick feed and she goes back to sleep til 7. Not ideal I know, but sometimes she does sleep through til 6-6.30 without waking.

[C&B&E]

Yep, we were doing that for a couple of months, but then the waking just got earlier and earlier until she ended up waking twice or more every night .  I have been wondering about trying it I just don't want to go backwards yk 

ACK, just woken after 30 mins  .  Give me strength 

[Truly Blessed]

(Hugs) strength and deep breaths Honey.x.

[C&B&E]

Now taking forever to get her to sleep even though she's thoroughly past it.  Was aiming to get her down for 5pm. 

I don't really feel I have any option but to do two naps tomorrow  .  Trouble is I have to be out of the house from 9.45 - 10.15am so no idea what time I would do it.  But we can't keep having these OT naps and 9-10 hours nights, it's spiraling out of control.  Just feel so stuck.  Sorry for sounding like a wet lettuce, I'm struggling.  It's Ben too, short nights, 5am wakings and becoming increasingly difficult to be around  .

Right, any other ideas that I might have missed....apart from whisky  ?  Oh I medicated her before her nap - so not teeth.  She's only got two teeth so no canines coming through yet, and they don't seem to bother her at the moment. 

 

[*Becky*]

Sorry for sounding like a wet lettuce,

don't even say that - you are amazing, I feel we have it hard atm with M and it is not the same as what you have been through with Ev and her reflux etc. Seriously, give yourself a break...
Personally I would not do night feeds at this point seeing as how hard you have worked on it and how she can manage without but that is your call. I don't BF, maybe if i had then mine would have had night feeds for longer.
If you do 2 naps then I would aim for about 3.5 hours after wake up if that is possible. xx

[Smurfette]

Hi Claire

I have only read the past 2 pages and your first post, so please forgive me if you've already answered these questions but..

how long ago did she go to one nap? What was the reason for switching?
Is she still an independent sleeper?
Currently-what is her average wake up time in which she's up for the day?
What time is her 1st nap (if applicable) and/or only nap?
On average-what time is bedtime?

From the little bit that I've read it seems to me that this is all OT related. I'm not sure of your current routine, but IIWM (and it was this time last year!!) I would go back to 2 naps for about a week or however long it takes her to catch up before you reasses if she's actually ready for one nap.
If she's EWing and not going back to sleep, I would start her nap around 8:15 if she needs it and closer to 9am if not. There are certain biological sleep windows when the body is ready to sleep and those times are around 8:30am and 12:30/1pm. If you can get your LO to sleep in these windows, they produce the most restorative nap because you're matching the timing of sleep with the body's readiness.
Depending on the length of the nap and her mood in the late afternoon/early evening, I would also do EBT of about 3-4 hours after she wakes from the last nap.
She will likely fight it for a few days because her body clock is probably mixed up a bit, but with some consistency you can totally help her get the sleep she needs.

If you are not able to/unwilling to go back to 2 naps, then I would be starting her one nap somewhere between 12ish if she's been up since 5 ish, and closer to 1 if she's woken up later (but not later than 1pm) Then (again depending on the length/quality of that nap), I would do super early bedtime consistently for about 2 weeks or until you start to see her sleep in later in the morning.

Hang in there momma! I was totally going through this last year and it was awful (more like a black hole of depression that sucked the life out of me and my husband) but we got back on track and so can you!!
Be prepared for tons of consistency and some time for it to start working, but she's just super OT so we can fix this!

[*Becky*]

FWIW I totally agree with smurfette about the OT.

Smurfette - I have a question about the 1 nap day. How come you would put her down at 12pm if she has been up since 5am. Won't she be waaaayyy OT?

[C&B&E]

Thanks for taking the time to right out such a long reply 

how long ago did she go to one nap? What was the reason for switching?
Is she still an independent sleeper?
Currently-what is her average wake up time in which she's up for the day?
What time is her 1st nap (if applicable) and/or only nap?
On average-what time is bedtime?

She has been on one nap for about about 3 months consistently I think - I basically moved her to one nap out of desperation as it was destroying our family trying to put her down for two naps every day.  She has basically always been a terrible sleeper because of severe silent reflux (she is now on a *lot* of medication and it is now under control), and it would often take 1-2 hours to settle her for each nap and I just couldn't leave my DS on his own twice a day for that long  .  So far from ideal routine wise, but she would often do a long night (broken). DS didn't drop his nap til 18 months so it felt very early. 

Yep, now a (reluctant!) independent sleeper. 

Average for this week has been 4-5.30am.  We always try to resettle her and she will sometimes go back until 6.30/7am - but it can take 1hr+ settling. 

She's been doing one nap - normally put down between 11.15am-11.45am.  Often takes her ages to settle though so can end up conking out later.

Bedtime - we do early bedtimes.  On a great nap day our latest bedtime would be 6.45pm at the moment.  But I have been trying for SEBTs of 5.15/5.30pm when she does stupidly short naps - but often doesn't fall asleep til 6.30pm anyway .  Like tonight.

From the little bit that I've read it seems to me that this is all OT related.

I think OT is now the *remaining* issue - whereas before the main issues were reflux/ears/self settling issues which is why our routine was non-existent.  Hopefully now those things are tackled, I can 'just' work on routine!

I'm not sure of your current routine, but IIWM (and it was this time last year!!) I would go back to 2 naps for about a week or however long it takes her to catch up before you reasses if she's actually ready for one nap.
If she's EWing and not going back to sleep, I would start her nap around 8:15 if she needs it and closer to 9am if not. There are certain biological sleep windows when the body is ready to sleep and those times are around 8:30am and 12:30/1pm. If you can get your LO to sleep in these windows, they produce the most restorative nap because you're matching the timing of sleep with the body's readiness.

If she EWs tomorrow then I will try this - it also means I can fit it around DSs preschool.

then I would be starting her one nap somewhere between 12ish if she's been up since 5 ish, and closer to 1 if she's woken up later (but not later than 1pm) Then (again depending on the length/quality of that nap), I would do super early bedtime consistently for about 2 weeks or until you start to see her sleep in later in the morning.

When she falls asleep this late she *always* takes a v. short OT nap (today being a case in point - 30 mins).  Then she was so OT at bedtime it took her an hour of crying to fall asleep.  That is what I am struggling with  . 

I think I'm going to try going back to two naps then, and I wonder if I've been putting her down too late - more like 4 hours A time.  So will try earlier tomorrow.  Thanks so much ladies 

[Smurfette]

Becky-yes she will be, but the goal is to get to a nap time that is more in line with the sleep windows. So Claire could do a nap at 11 one day and then 11 30 etc but I just don't want her to get stuck there. You want to move that nap into the proper time and then do many weeks of EBT to compensate. The little thing is so OT right now as it is, at least if the nap is occuring in the proper spot then you can start to fix the rest of the issues.

Claire-you've got some really great things going for you-an independent sleeper, the fact that you're open to going back to 2 naps and that you support early bedtimes.

If you are going back to 2 naps, please stick with them and those times I mentioned for at least a week, if not longer-regardless if DD naps at them or not. It really does take a while to reset their body clock, plus coupled with the fact that you are within the 2-1 time frame, you need to give it time to see what she ends up doing. I wouldn't do one nap one day and then 2 another. At least for right now. Stick with 2 naps for at least a week.
Also, keep with early bedtimes as this is one of the fastest ways to help catch her up. So you want to be aiming for her to be asleep 3-4 hours from the wake up from the last nap. Watch her mood in the late afternoon as well as the quality of the naps to base bedtime on.

Also, when she short naps can you start to leave her in the crib to allow her time to potentially go back to sleep? I did this last year and it took about a week but my daughter started to go back to sleep. Try to leave her to at least the hour mark. Ie if she only naps 30 mins, leave her for at least another 30 minutes. You want to start to train her body to learn to lie there for longer than 30 minutes on a regular basis.

[C&B&E]

So if I put her down at 12 and she sleeps half an hour then that gives a 3.30pm bedtime?  I'm a big fan of sebt's but that feels pretty early!?  Because I've got as and some commitments that I cannot change it will be likely that I will have to do a couple of one nap days still.

Thanks

[becj86]

I've done 4:30 before and it worked really well, DS woke at 2:30am on the dot and went down again til 7

Totally agree re: leaving her lying there after she wakes if you can - DS often will lie in bed for a while then go back to sleep and take a much longer nap.

[*Becky*]

I do the same with M atm as her naps are so bad, I have an ideal of being in bed for 2 hours even if she short naps but sometimes I end up getting her after 1.5...

[*Becky*]

Becky-yes she will be, but the goal is to get to a nap time that is more in line with the sleep windows. So Claire could do a nap at 11 one day and then 11 30 etc but I just don't want her to get stuck there.

exactly what has happened to us!!