Touchy 8 month old - 19-35 min naps

[TracyP21]

I am now completely at a loss as DS has been at grandparents today as he will be there for one day next week when I go back to work.  He slept for 50 minutes in a portacot!  No waking up at 25 mins.  This was after 3 hours 10 minutes first AT.  He was rocked to sleep by MIL then put down and slept.  What is going on? 
Then he was awake for 2 hours (I think lots of stimulation going on and TV) and fell asleep in MIL's arms and slept there for 1hr 25 mins.

So I feel pretty useless that someone else can get my DS to sleep longer and I am his Mum and I can't.  Is he just having me on lol?

[Papaya]

Huge hugs, isn't that just always the way - I've had that happen with DH when I've been struggling with our LO and he has her for one day and she sleeps like a dream! Do you know did MIL hold him through the 25 min mark for the first nap, or did she put him down straight away?

Sara's a little busy right now with her new LO but I'll see if I can get some other eyes to have a look at this for you

[TracyP21]

Ooohh - what did Sara have?  I thought she must have been busy lol.

She didn't hold him through the jolts, just put him down after he fell asleep.  I am thinking he was probably more tired because of the car ride and extra simulation before bedtime because he was asleep 10 minutes earlier.  I am wondering if I am not tiring him out enough before first nap as he is coming off 11.5-12 hours sleep (last night he slept from 6:30pm-6:20am).

[TracyP21]

So this morning he ss and was asleep at 3hr 30 mins - I watched him and at the 19/20 minute mark he did a big sigh and his body sighed as well, then his hand twitched and he woke up.  I picked him up and he settled back to sleep pretty quickly.  At the 40 min, 60 min and then the 1hr 20min he sighed again but because I was holding him he didn't wake up.

So there is two trains of thought here - I somehow work out how to get him through that jolt while he is in the cot as I don't want to hold him through it since he is ss now.  Pressure on him somehow and at what time.  I tried to do it this morning when it happened but I was too late.

Or else - is he waking at 20 mins because its a habit and he knows I will be there  - so I am the prop.  This only happens at home during the day in the cot (not at night - he transitions all the time by himself).  So how do I remove myself as the prop - should I try PU/PD when he cries when I wake up?

[Papaya]

She had a little boy - there's a thread on the pregnancy board

I am wondering if I am not tiring him out enough before first nap as he is coming off 11.5-12 hours sleep

I think you could be right here - that is a really good night's sleep for this age, and not a terribly long first A. Is he crawling? Perhaps you could try some more active games.

I wouldn't have thought you're being a prop, tbh   I know a friend who swaddled her LO for naps only until 9 months, but I personally wouldn't have felt comfortable with it as my LO was rolling in her cot long before that. I think she used a Safe-T-Sleep though: http://www.safetsleep.com (they are super expensive, but if you're the sewing type, you could maybe make your own?)

I wonder if you need to push the A times out even more - just thinking of when you said he stirred today; 1hr and 1hr20 are classic UT waking times.

[TracyP21]

Is he crawling? Perhaps you could try some more active games.

He is not crawling, rolling around the floor though.

I wonder if you need to push the A times out even more - just thinking of when you said he stirred today; 1hr and 1hr20 are classic UT waking times.

We are at 3hr 30 mins, which I thought was pretty high for this age?  Will try another 10 minutes today and see what happens.

He doesn't roll around in bed for some reason, its like he hasn't worked out he can lol.  I was wondering about a safe t-sleep if that would help with the shudder.  So does the shudder happen because he's not tired enough or because he's still in a light sleep.

[Papaya]

Yeah, 3hr30 is a good A for this age - some LOs do need longer though. A bit of pressure might help with the jolts.

So does the shudder happen because he's not tired enough or because he's still in a light sleep.

Not sure...my LO has unsettled sleep when she's in discomfort (eg teething), so she might twitch or let out a little cry...this sounds a little like that...

[TracyP21]

I have been medicating him before his nap some days and not others to see if there is a difference and there is none.  I have been using ibuprofen.  He has been putting himself to sleep, within 5 mins of going down.  He wakes up regardless at 20 minutes.  He makes this sighing noise and body shudders a bit and then his hand twitches and he wakes up.  I managed to get him back to sleep today and he was moving his jaw a lot.  He slept for another 1hr 20 mins on me.  I can't see any teeth at all and he has two bottom ones so I know what to look for now.  All my "Y" time is spent with him.

[becj86]

DS jolted a lot more when he'd not been physically active enough, particularly in the first A time of the day - at this age, we went swimming or to the park every morning. Our routine was get up, eat, get dressed and out the door. I even had a shower while he had his nap, everything was geared to getting him as much physical activity as possible in that first A time and he slept so much better for the rest of the day. He really enjoyed being in water - bath, pool, rain, whatever, it didn't seem to matter so long as there was water.

I have noticed that the less active the LO, the higher the A times seem to be in general, so maybe he does need a bit more A time...

[TracyP21]

That's for the ideas Becj86.  I will definitely give this a try this morning and see what happens.

[TracyP21]

So the last couple of mornings I have been making sure we have lots of physical activity, rolling around etc on the floor.  I have realised that maybe he has been a bit stationary as I am trying to get lots done in the morning as I know he won't sleep long or I will need to hold him.  He has got through the 20 minute shudder but now we still have 30-35 min wake ups from naps.  I have tried pressure on him but he still wakes up.  When I am holding him I can feel him trying to rouse himself but if I hold him a bit tighter he stays asleep.  We are now getting morning wake up time of 5:30am talking on and off till I get him up at 6:30am.  Can this be from OT? 
Today was only a 30 min morning nap at 9:30am and then I was at work so I didn't get him home till 1:15pm - he slept from 1:45pm till 3:30pm - all of it on me and with a slight wake up at the 55 min mark, sounding like pain.
So if I'm making it more physical for him do I need to reduce the AT, particularly if we have early wake ups?  I am still taking first AT from 6:30am, even when he wakes at 5:30am. 
We are just in a vicious cycle of OT at the moment!

[becj86]

When's bedtime? I'm just having trouble piecing together a routine here.

We are now getting morning wake up time of 5:30am talking on and off till I get him up at 6:30am.  Can this be from OT? 

Can be, but is it an EW?

[TracyP21]

Hi Becj86, this has been our EASY for the past couple of weeks, with the talking early happening for the past week...

Lately been talking on/off 5:30 or 6:00
WU: 6:30 (when I get him out of cot)
E: 7 - bottle 250ml; 8:15 - solids
A: currently on 3hr 20-30 at the moment (been increasing to see if that improves nap).  Though at the 2hr 30 min mark he is yawning so I push through this.
S: 9:50/10:00 - (always in cot) usually twenty minutes then wakes up crying - sometimes I can resettle him (takes between 2-20 minutes) - then sleeps on me as he will wake up when I put in cot.  If resettles he will sleep till 11:15 ish
E: 11 - bottle 250ml; 12:30 solids
A: this is when it gets tricky - if its a short nap I will aim for 2hr 45mins / 3hr 10 mins if the nap is nearer an hour
S: so second sleep can happen between 1:30-2:30 and then generally only for 35 mins (unless its been a short first nap and then he will go longer, sometimes 1hr 20 mins but then only if in pram or car seat, cot will get 35 min nap)
E: 3:00 - bottle 250ml; 5:00 - solids
A:
S: if he wakes close to or after 3 we have an EBT of 6:30 or if slightly later its 7 (has bottle 250ml)

We have gone backwards in settling for naps, he was consistently ss for morning nap and then needed help settling for PM nap - now as soon as I put him in the cot he cries hard out so I have been rocking him to sleep again 

I need to work out a plan here ..... considering PU/PD but not sure because of whether the nap wake ups are due to pain from teething.

[Papaya]

How are things going now, hun?

[amateursuch]

Bump- I'm having very similar issues with my 8 mo DD with a cold and teething. Wondering if its that that wakes her at 20 mins, or I had thought OT but doesn't look like you think that's the case with yours?