11 months & no sleep!

[Lisestar]

Hi, I am desperately seeking some advice with regard to my 11 month old daughter (and some sleep!!). When she was born she was very colicky and the only way I could get her to sleep was to rock her. The colic went around 3 months but since then she has continued to waken crying through the night, generally around 5/6 times. She takes a dummy and normally it is just a case of giving her the dummy & she will go back to sleep. At other times though, she is wide awake and full of energy & will just not go back to sleep. She has also recently started crawling and sometimes when I go into her room she will be on all fours & upset though still half asleep. She sleeps in a sleeping bag with the air-con on as we live in Spain.
She has 2 naps during the day totalling around 3 hours. She has her naps in her push-chair but I have to push/sing her to sleep. I have tried cutting her naps back to 2/2.5 hours but that did not make any difference so I now just let her sleep until she wakens. She was until recently on 3 bottles a day but over the last week or so she has started to show less interest in her bottle after her lunch/before her afternoon nap but then she has been wakening around 11.30/12 midnight & the only way she'll re-settle is by giving her a bottle. When I get up though at 7am she' still asleep & I usually waken her as I thought it best to keep to a routine. She used to go to bed around 8pm but from around 9 months she refused to go down at that time so I started to put her down later at around 9pm.
Sorry for such a lengthy post but I'm trying to give as much info as possible. My partner works 6 nights & I have no family here so I'm mainly doing this on my own. Her schedule (such as it is) is as follows:

Up:7am
Bottle 8am breakfast 8.30am
Nap 9am-10/10.30
A 2hours
Lunch 12.30
Bottle 1.30
Nap 1.35-3pm
Dinner 5.30
Bath 8.30 then bed at 9pm

[Erin M]

Hi Hun, I notice you have a very long day (14 hours) there -- while at this age a 12 hour day/12 hour night is hard, you want to probably try to get closer to it.  I do think she's getting too much day sleep right now -- at 11 months, you'd think that she would be starting to move to 1 nap ( 10 to 12 mth old Sleep Gone Wonky, and the 2 - 1 Nap Switch ).  Here's some sample routines for her age chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months -- what time do you want her to go to bed?  The wide awake in the MOTN can also be too much day sleep.
She also seems to like longer A times later in the day -- I might try capping the first nap at 45 minutes, shortening your second A time if necessary and then getting an earlier (and hopefully still long) nap in the PM, bringing bt forward a touch.  Hopefully this will cut down on some of your NWs. M

[Lisestar]

Hi Erin, thanks for your reply. I was so tired today I put her down at 8.10pm but since then she's woken 3 times already (it's 9.45pm here) so I think it's going to be a long night.
I will try your suggestions re cutting her morning naps, here's hoping!

[Erin M]

Hoping you have a good night!

[Lisestar]

Hi, I tried as suggested and cut the morning nap to 45 minutes. She then had a nap of 1.5 hours from 1.15-2.45pm. When I tried initially to put her down at 9pm she wouldn't settle. She was visibly tired though so I put her into her push-chair & she fell asleep not long after & I then transferred her to her cot. She woke crying at 11.30pm & went back to sleep herself shortly afterwards so I thought we were making progress.
She then woke again at 1.30am, I went in & gave her the dummy, tried patting her, singing to her, gave her water etc etc but she wouldn't settle so I lifted her & carried her until I thought she asleep. When I put her in her cot though she was wide awake. I then tried a bottle, she didn't take much so I carried her about & tried to rock her to sleep but again, was awake when I put her in the cot (by this time it was 2.30am). My partner then came in from work & took over & I went to bed. As she wouldn't go back to sleep he lifted her & brought her into the living room & let her potter until she showed signs of tiredness which was at 4am. She woke at 6.45am & as were both so tired my partner brought her into our bed(which is the first time we've done this) & she slept til 8am. Do you think given the amount of NW's that there could be someting medically wrong? I feel when I tell people she's still not sleeping through the night at 11 months they look at me as if I'm to blame, it's really getting me down, am at my wit's end!! Any ideas? L x

[j.and.e]

does she ever fall asleep alone in her cot or do u always comfort her to sleep? That can encourage the night wakings as when she wakes she needs you to settle her Xx

[Erin M]

Do you think given the amount of NW's that there could be someting medically wrong?

This is something that you have to listen to your mommy instinct for.  Healthy babies sometimes do wake often -- there are a lot of reasons why -- routine issues, teeth, props, etc.  But if you think something is wrong, it's always worth going to the doctor to get it checked out. 

In your particular case today, I'd say that your afternoon A time -- 2:45-9:00 PM (that's over 6 hours) is too long -- typically a baby would be doing a max of about 4 hours (so BT closer to 7) -- if she really seems to prefer long A times later in the day, I would stretch it out until 7:30 or 8 at the absolute latest, but I would guess you had a very OT baby on your hands at BT and that was what caused the trouble going to sleep and the frequent wakings. 

does she ever fall asleep alone in her cot or do u always comfort her to sleep? That can encourage the night wakings as when she wakes she needs you to settle her Xx

And this could be a factor too. 

[Lisestar]

Thank you for the replies. No, I always comfort her to sleep before putting her down to sleep in her cot. I know it's a vicious cycle but I started doing it that way as when I put her down in her cot awake, she would cry every time I left the room & I ended up going in & out all evening & still ended up lifting her. Do you think I should no longer comfort her to sleep & put her down awake?

Here in Spain believe it or not, they recommend that for a child of my daughter's age they go to bed no later than 10pm. I so didn't want a repeat episode of the night before so I put her down last night at 9.20pm. She woke crying at 10.40pm, 11.05pm, 12.15 & again at 12.30pm. Each time I left her for a little while to see if she would settle herself but her cries only got stronger & I couldn't leave her so went & comforted her & gave her the dummy. What I have noticed is that when she wakes early in the evening her cry is a half asleep cry & she immediately goes back to sleep when I give her the dummy. She then wakens always round about the same time (between 11.30pm &12.30pm dependent on when she went down), and at that time her cry is always a lot stronger as if there's something wrong. This is the time she's also the hardest to re-settle hence the 12.15 & 12.30 wakings.

My instinct tells me there isn't anything medically wrong but I think I will still have her checked. I'm going back to Scotland tomorrow to stay with my mum & dad for probably 5 weeks until my partner comes in November. I can't cope with the sleepless nights any more & I'm really run down so I will speak to my doctor there. When we were in Scotland before she slept a lot better & went down around 8pm. She still woke 3 or 4 times a night but 95% of the time would immdiately go back to sleep when I gave her the dummy. I've also been told that because I was probably less stressed at my parents as I wasn't on my own that could be a factor in her sleeping better. Do you think that mabe a factor?

If I do try tonight to put her down earlier tonight & she's wide awake what do you recommend I do?

Apologies again for the wordy response & numerous queries. I'm just so deperate to try & get this sorted. L x

[Erin M]

Here in Spain believe it or not, they recommend that for a child of my daughter's age they go to bed no later than 10pm. I so didn't want a repeat episode of the night before so I put her down last night at 9.20pm.

I'd aim for no shorter than an 11 hour night, so if you're putting her to bed at 9:20, you don't want her up any earlier than 8:20.  They really need those hours in the nighttime to get good restorative sleep.  I understand that the 7/8 PM BTs that we often recommend don't work for everyone, but if you're shifting BT later, her WU time needs to get later too or she's just going to get OT -- and those frequent wakings in the first half of the night sound like OT wakings. 

And yes, you probably need to work on independent sleep.  If you always help her to get to sleep, then she's going to wake in the night looking for your help to get back to sleep.  For her age, we would recommend using pick up/put down (which is actually just put down) at her age to teach independent sleep.  There's some information on it here: How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations) -- she will cry (it's only natural, you're changing the way that you're doing things!), but the difference between that and the cry it out method is that you're right there with her, teaching her how to get back to sleep herself.  Alternately, you can try holding her for shorter and shorter periods of time and trying to help her to the point where she can do it all herself. 

If I do try tonight to put her down earlier tonight & she's wide awake what do you recommend I do?

Let her be if she's happy.  She might surprise you by playing around for a bit and then falling asleep.  If she's just fussing (we call it a mantra cry -- What’s a mantra cry? ) you can also let her be, but if it escalates to an "I need you" cry, then you should stay with her.  You have to remember that no one likes change, babies especially and if she's been doing things the same way for 11 months, it takes some time and effort to undo it.  But, teaching her how to be an independent sleeper is something that will truly benefit her!

I've also been told that because I was probably less stressed at my parents as I wasn't on my own that could be a factor in her sleeping better. Do you think that mabe a factor?

It might be, but I'd say there's other things to look at first (like sleeping independently and getting on a good routine).  I'm really glad you're getting some help, it's really, really hard to be sleep deprived!

[Lisestar]

Hi, now back in Scotland and it's a little bit colder! The first night we were here Mia went down about 7.45pm (which would have been 8.45pm Spanish time) but woke a lot of times, practically every hour. I put that down to her being in different surroundings but last night she also woke frequently through the night, in total 8 times. She had good naps through the day, 45 minutes in the morning and 1pm-2.30pm in the afternoon. She went down at 8pm without any bother and also during her day-time naps I didn't rock her so much to sleep in her pram to try & let her settle herself. She first woke at 9.15pm then 10.30pm. After that it was every 1-2 hours with loud crying & then settling back with the dummy. Each night she's been here she's woken at 5.30am and I've been so tired I've taken her into my bed where she's slept another half hour or so. I'm now concerned that she's getting worse instead of better, she has never woken as many times through the night when at home what are your thoughts/advice?? ps I am sleeping in the same room as Mia & she is in a sleeping cot.

[j.and.e]

I wud try earlier bt incase she is OT so with wu 6am 45min am nap and 1.5hr pm nap finishing at 2.30 i wud try a 6.30pm bedtime. How long are u away? When we visit parents i usually let ds2 sleep in my bed if he wakes early and get back to normal once home xx

[Erin M]

I'm sure you've thought of this, but are you sure she's warm enough?  Since it's colder there, she might need a blanket, sleep sack, etc. 

When is she waking up?  What time are her naps? 

[Lisestar]

Hi, I think she's ok warmth wise as she's in pyjamas & her sleeping bag & my parent's house is generally quite warm. On Sunday night she woke at:-
9.15pm
10.25pm
10.50pm
00.50
02.30
03.10
4.40 then up 5.35am

Last night wasn't good either but due to being OT as she only had 10 minute nap in afternoon and 55 minutes in morning. I was visiting my sister in the afternoon and I couldn't get her to go back to sleep after having slept for only 10 mins of her afternoon nap. She went to bed at 8.20pm. She woke at 11.30pm & would not re-settle. I tried pu/pd but she really screamed & I couldn't cope with it. I couldn't get her back to sleep until 1.30am as she was inconsolable & very clingy.

She is having a nap this morning having gone to sleep at 9.40am & I was going to let her sleep for 45 minutes. I had planned to stay here for 7 weeks though I am currently considering whether that wise given how Mia has been but I don't wish to upset her routine yet again. L x

[becj86]

Hi

Just wondering whether she's been to the doctor since you got to Scotland? Waking that frequently seems like discomfort to me, possibly OT is involved too but I'd be surprised if its purely OT.

re: the OT - She really needs a shorter day and longer night. Rather than trying to keep her in bed longer in the morning, I'd suggest you have her asleep for the night no more than 13hr after she wakes up for the day.  Once she's more rested and in a more stable routine, you can shift the times to suit your lifestyle more.

How's she behaving when she wakes at night?

[Lisestar]

Hi, I haven't been to the doctor as I wasn't sure if it would be worthwhile as she is totally fine during the day & there's no problems when she's sleeping during the day. In the evening she seems to have settled a little more now. On Tuesday night I put her in her cot and she settled herself to sleep which is definite progress. She then slept from 8.15pm & did not waken until 1.15am & that was the only time she woke! She wu 6.20am so was very tired by the evening so last night she went down at 7.25pm. She woke 4 times before 10pm & excepting one of those, she settled herself back to sleep & found the dummy herself. I can't remember exactly but I think she woke a further 3 or 4 times during the night but settled back either by herself or by me giving her the dummy & each time went straight back to sleep.

When she wakens it can either be a half asleep cry, similar to a mantra cry or it can be a strong cry but as soon as she has the dummy the crying stops. I watched her last night in her cot and on one occasion when she found the dummy herself & it looked like she was going to re-settle without my intervention, she startled (like adults do when they're falling asleep) & it was as if she's given herself a fright & she started to cry again.
 
What sort of things would cause her discomfort at night & not during the day? L x