11mo NW and EW!

[Samjheywood]

Hi there,

I have posted about the EW's on the general sleep board but unfortunately didn't receive any replies  but since then the wakes have become earlier and earlier so they are now NW's so I'm hoping I will be more successful on this board.

My 11mo had a really good routine going not so long ago, no NW's, 2 nice naps of 1.5hrs but about a month ago this all changed. He starting napping for 30/40mins, the EW's of 5/530 were back and now NW too. I was doing set naps prior to the changes of 9 and 130, advised by Smurfette which were working great so he was only having 3hrs A which I know is short for his age. He is also quite a high sleep needs I would say as he is a right grump when he doesn't get a decent nap.

He started to wake about 5/530am nine times out of ten having had a poop. So I'd change him and give him a bit of bottle and he'd easily go back to sleep until 630/7. Over the course of a few weeks this has now become a routine of waking every morning for this even sometimes when he hasn't pooped and now he actually cries for me to go to him when he didn't previously. The wake ups are gradually getting earlier and earlier with last nights being 0350 and he is taking longer to fall back asleep and barely makes it to 6/630.

I am assuming these could be OT related due to the shorter naps which I am trying to resolve by increasing his A time but as of yet no such luck! He has also got a cold this last week which hasn't helped plus he has his 8th tooth growing, it cut the gum about a week ago.

Any suggestions on how I can get out of this routine, it seems to have become a habit for him and I don't know how to break it?

His current EASY looks like this

UP 0630
Nap 1000 - 1030/1040
Nap 1330/1400 -1400/1430
BT 1830
NW anywhere between 0345-0530 for about an hour

Ideally I would like his EASY to look something like this, which is what it was prior to the short naps and NW

UP 0630
Nap 1000-1100 (capped if necessary)
Nap 1400-1530
BT 1900

[becj86]

Hi, sorry you didn't get a response!

Here's a sticky that may be helpful: 10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first!

UP 0630
Nap 1000-1100 (capped if necessary)
Nap 1400-1530
BT 1900

This is a bit unrealistic given his age now, TBH. You're likely going to have to shift that morning nap later to say 10:30 and cap it at 30mins or so rather than an hour and maybe shift your bedtime or wake up time so he's only expecting an 11hr night which is more typical at this age. Any more than that is lovely, but it can't really be expected if you see what I mean.

That NW - is he happy? If so, I'd bet its an undertired NW rather than OT. Now those UT NW's can happen for two reasons: not long enough A time in one stretch and/or routine - too much day sleep, day sleep too close to BT or wake time.

[Samjheywood]

Thanks for coming back to me so quickly, really appreciate it.

Ok so the NW's started out with no crying, he would just be awake and be tossing and turning which I knew if he didn't fall back asleep he had most likely pooped so I'd change him and put right back to bed. But the last week or so he has woke up crying and then at 0600/0630 when he is ready to get up again this has been crying and he never used to he'd always be happy to play in the morning until I went to get him. Do you still think that's UT?

He is very wingy during the day this past week too, the slightest thing will upset him liking telling him no, I was putting this down to being tired?

As for the naps, I will try to go more towards 4hrs and will adjust the night for 11hrs too. If he only has a 30m nap though would I still go with the rule of reducing the next by 30m?

He is just confusing me at the mo!

Thanks

[rachrobbo]

Samjheywood, my Lo is exactly the same!! The telling him no and bursting into tears happens daily in our house.
Ahh the relief to have someone in the same situation.  Not a good situation to be in tho, i must admit.
Becj86, i read that link and i'm going to try adjusting my LO's whole day as opposed to just bedtime. I do forget that its not all about just the problem hours in the day, its the whole 24hr clock that need to be looked at!

Good luck Samjheywood, please update your post and let me know how you get on.

Rach

[becj86]

It could be developmental rather than tiredness - does any of this ring a bell: http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-7
Often this developmental stuff comes with SA and clinginess.

If he only has a 30m nap though would I still go with the rule of reducing the next by 30m?

If you push the A time from 3hr to 4hr all in one go, he likely will short nap due to OT, so smaller changes may be the way to go, or you could just be there to resettle the OT waking for a few days while his body gets used to the new routine and tweak after 3-4 days or so. I'm a fan of the long AM nap/short PM nap combination until the PM nap is being refused - I liked being able to 'bank' a good nap for the day - made DS much more pleasant to be around and also meant I had another chance at a nap in the PM if the AM nap went to pot.

[Samjheywood]

Hi,

I worked out his age in weeks and he is 47wo, so the wonder week was last week which could explain the clinginess and poss SA! Thanks for that, never even considered that.

Last night I held him out to 3hr50 before bed and he went to sleep rather quick at 1850 and had the 1 NW at 0430 which was a poop. Went back to sleep at 0500 until 0620 so a bit better. 

I had been pushing him to 3hr30A the last wk or so, so I'll try 3hr45 and steadily work up to 4hr. I like your long am nap idea too, may give that a go see how it works out.

Have put him down for a nap this morning after 3hr30 and he was asleep by 3hr35 - very quick for him! Might be a bit too early but fingers crossed!

I'll come back to update soon. Thanks

[becj86]

FX for you

[Samjheywood]

Hiya,

Today didn't go that well and I wonder if you could advise me further please?

As mentioned above he was up at 0620 having had 1NW of 30m. I went to put him down for the first nap at 0945 (3hr25A) hoping he would be asleep by 3hr45A and he went very quiet and still almost immediately so I thought he was asleep. Anyway 10m later he is up jumping around in the cot and this went on for a while! Obviously not asleep then! I went to assist after a while because I was worried about OT anyway he still wouldn't go and I eventually gave up at 1050.

I brought him downstairs, gave him some lunch and took him back up to try again at 1130, he went to sleep at 1155 without any fuss and slept 1hr20, very surprising after a massive 5hr35A, unless it was because he was soooo OT?  BTW he was fine staying up no crankiness - nothing!

So he was up at 1315, was happy the rest of the day, maybe a little too happy! I did a EBT of1730 and he went straight asleep at 1745, 4hr30A time.

So now I'm even more confused? Is he ready for a lot more A time than I thought or did I do something wrong? Should I be trying 1 nap?

I realise my query has developed more about his naps/routine to try and resolve the NW so I wonder whether I should be redirecting my questions to the naps board or whether you can still help me? Let me know what's the best thing to do.

Many thanks in advance.

[becj86]

I went to put him down for the first nap at 0945 (3hr25A) hoping he would be asleep by 3hr45A and he went very quiet and still almost immediately so I thought he was asleep. Anyway 10m later he is up jumping around in the cot and this went on for a while! Obviously not asleep then! I went to assist after a while because I was worried about OT anyway he still wouldn't go and I eventually gave up at 1050.

He may temporarily need a longer A time during the mental leap... he may have been UT when you put him down and become OT and then the nap-fighting may have been a second wind.

Maybe a post on Naps or EASY would be a good idea, that way you'll get some more fresh eyes

[Samjheywood]

Ok, I'll post over there. Thanks for all your help thou!