3 month old - are NW's ever from hunger if your LO wakes up 'gently'?

[Erin M]

Anyway what do you think about the set naps times?  Bit scary but might just work for him. 

Exactly. 

Not sure whether to cap it to ensure 2h second A as this would help trying to get a longer nap for the 15.30. 

My gut feeling on this one is to cap it at 2 hours.  However, I think some trial and error will be your friend there. 

Although with lots of rolling, who knows?

That's the truth!  Milestones complicate everything!

I did see he gives exact times for particular ages but I don't think my LO is really going to fit into anything 'age average'!

LOL! 

I've never read much Weissbluth, but I have heard from several ladies that he does have some similar theories and has done a lot of research -- so it's good if you want to know the theories behind why babies wake, etc.  It's just his methods that I don't particularly agree with.   

I think the set naps are definitely worth a shot for him, especially with your school run to contend with. 

[lynners]

Thanks again Erin.

Great day today.  Out all day with DS1 and my breast pump while DH got DS2 to take bottle.  We'd never tried him on the first feed of the day before.  I think maybe that he doesn't have any night feeds other than the DF now that he really is very hungry when he wakes up.  He took the bottle within 5 minutes of being offered  ...and I got to have a lovely time with DS1 all day - just the two of us.

Anyway yes I think I'll try the scary set nap thing soon.  Do you think I should just set my times as best I can and stick to them through thick and thin (even if he short naps/get crazy OT?) for a week - does that include BT too?  So scary!!

[Erin M]

Yay on the bottle!  That's such a good feeling! 

Stick  with the set naps regardless of the craziness.  I'd bring BT forward if you need to if you're having a crazily OT day.  If you run into trouble on that one, I know there's some ladies who have done it, so I'd start a Naps post for that (happy to help, but I know that others have more knowledge than I do there).   

[lynners]

Hi there,

Have now posted on the Naps board for some set nap info thanks and of course everyone is highly recommending that I don't have a first A as long as I have.  Yep we know it's crazy - have referred them on to this post so they know how we got there.

...anyway meanwhile this is the fourth night in a row that we've been getting an NW between 9.15 and 9.45 (DF normally at 10).  Not sure whether it is OT or something to do with the rolling but seems strange that each time it's just before the normal DF time (and we've had mainly EBT's)

Most times we've tried to flip him from his tummy to see if that was the problem.  Generally this has escalated the problem and we've ended up feeding because it's DF time anyway.  Each night he's then slept through, 3 times to EW's and one time we had to wake up at 7.00 am.

Any idea what might be going on? 

[Erin M]

Have now posted on the Naps board for some set nap info thanks and of course everyone is highly recommending that I don't have a first A as long as I have. 

LOL, should have seen that coming. 

Generally, I'd say the 9:15/9:45 waking would be OT, but I'll also say that we've had little blips like that too that I could never quite figure out what they were coming from (so that would point to development).  If we were within about a half hour of the DF time, I'd usually feed right away just so I wouldn't have to deal with settling and then getting them back up to feed. 

[lynners]

Yes I think I'll do just that.  Fed him last night at about 9.30 and he slept through.  Heard him at about 6.15 but was back to sleep quickly and had to be woken at 7.00 am so doesn't seem to be a major problem.  Hopefully a blip as you say.

Wish me luck on the Naps board ensuring everyone that we're not just completely insane 

[Erin M]

Bec and I have given the naps mods some background so you should get some good advice there now. 
They were just jumping on what seemed to be an obvious problem with your EASY. 

[lynners]

Thanks very much Erin.  He's now back to 2 days of UT napping on an A of 4h40m 

[becj86]

You've ruled out overstimulation for these short naps, yes?

[lynners]

Hi Bec,

Yes both days were quiet days at home so I'm pretty sure they can't be OS.  I wish he could just stop needing these A increases  Initial UT 40 min naps though ended up in the last two days being tricky and I just know if I can get a good nap again his day will be easier.  The ladies on the Naps board feel I need to back track so his A is more age appropriate.  Although I can see why they'd suggest that but I honestly can't see that working.  Feeling a bit lost.

[becj86]

Often seems a silly question - no TV in that A time?
Presume extra physical activity doesn't shorten the A time?

Let me have another read through this thread, I was pretty convinced the A time increases all made sense He's a little puzzle, that's for sure!

Are there opportunities for him to fall asleep that he's not taking - like do you take him out in the car during those long A times and he stays awake through it? That would lend more credence to him really needing this crazy-long first A time.

[lynners]

Sometimes the TV is on but certainly not all the time.  Maybe I should completely avoid it for a while to get a handle on this?

Don't think physical activity seems to make a difference.  He's learnt to roll and seems to be trying to crawl so had him rolling around for at least half an hour today and after an A of 4h 50m he still woke up happy after 40m...however...I fed him then we had to drive somewhere straight away.  He fell asleep in the car and stayed asleep for another 2 hours.

That has made me re-think everything a little.  Maybe there have been times that he's woken up, seemingly happy, and of course I've assumed UT but maybe he has needed more sleep  But then when this has happened repeatedly we've increased the A which has given a good nap again - so seemingly the A increase was right....hmmm..maybe today was just a blip.

DS1's school is only a 5 minute walk away and I tend to carry DS2 in a sling - doesn't really give him much opportunity to fall asleep anyway.  Although there has been times when I've gone on after drop-off and if I keep walking for a good half hour he does look like he's going to dose so I try to keep him awake until we get home and his A is up.


Aaaahh feel like I knew my LO and now not so sure.

[becj86]

Ok, I know OS looks an awful lot like UT... and any TV at all had L really OS. I will have a read through when L is asleep (was at work yesterday, so couldn't really do it then) and see what I think.

[becj86]

Hi again

As I read through, I see a lot of rooting behaviours when a baby his age (at the time) would typically be ready for a nap. Are you sure that's not a sleep cue in his case? I know I didn't see rooting as a sleep cue til L crawled over to me and latched onto my shirt just before naptime a few days running...

When you first increased those A times you got really long naps that you were capping too - I wonder if that may have been that he was really tired from the long A's. A couple of those shorter naps thought to be UT may have been OS looking more closely (eg. ~2hr nap with a 40min nap the next day after the same A time). Also, you had a 30min nap that looked like UT, woke happy and playing - wonder if that may have been OS too.

Just some thoughts looking at it from another point of view now...

[lynners]

Wow.  Can OS really look like UT.  I thought OS would be more like OT. 

Hi again
Also, you had a 30min nap that looked like UT, woke happy and playing - wonder if that may have been OS too.

...interesting...will definitely start avoiding any OS situations for a while - she says after we've just been to DS1's nativity play  rephrase - I will try to avoid OS situations.

I can't think that there's been time that he's been rooting like you said particularly.  I did start giving him an extra feed when his A starting to get so long but only because otherwise it would get way too long between his E's.  He wasn't rooting for them though.  Is that what you're referring to?

Hi again
A couple of those shorter naps thought to be UT may have been OS looking more closely (eg. ~2hr nap with a 40min nap the next day after the same A time).

So this situation could either have been that the second day was OS or that he needed an A increase?  Tricky indeed!!!

OK well all in all I think it is worth trying to reduce his A just to see what happens...will give it a go tomorrow.