3 month old - are NW's ever from hunger if your LO wakes up 'gently'?

[lynners]

Hi Erin,

Been getting a few EW's and have now had something else thrown in to the mix because he started rolling today so we had to let his arms out of his woombie from his second nap.  Took forever to settle so a difficult OT day.

I've been sticking to the same first A now for about 6 days and seem to usually get a 1 1/2 hour nap - although once got a 30min OT nap.  He often then seems to struggle making the 'normal' 2 hours to the next nap and is tricky to settle.  Do you think even though 1 1/2 hour is a long nap that maybe it's not actually a 'full nap' for him (he normally wakes up happy)?  Maybe add more crazy A to the first A?

Thanks so much

[becj86]

I've been sticking to the same first A now for about 6 days and seem to usually get a 1 1/2 hour nap - although once got a 30min OT nap.  He often then seems to struggle making the 'normal' 2 hours to the next nap and is tricky to settle.  Do you think even though 1 1/2 hour is a long nap that maybe it's not actually a 'full nap' for him (he normally wakes up happy)?  Maybe add more crazy A to the first A?

Just jumping in while Erin is out of town What is his first A time now? Is 1.5hr the max that nap is - ie. is it sometimes 1hr20, sometimes 1hr30?

Any chance overstimulation is an issue for that second A time?

[lynners]

Hi Bec thanks for getting back to me.(How's Oz doing?  I'm from Melbourne but live in London now - could do with some sunshine right about now!)

We have a crazy situation for a 4 month old.  His first A of the day has been 3h35m - insanely high I know but this has been what he wants.  His second A has been 2 hours.  (huge difference!) The nap we get after the 3h 35m has not been 1h 20 at all ( i.e. 2 cycles) but either 1h 30 or 1h 40 - which sounds like a natural wake up time I suppose.  It's just that it seems to me as I've been increasing his first A time (which I seem to have been doing every few days for ages  ) when we get it 'exactly right'  he normally gets really good naps - always 2 hours or over, and the following A of 2 hours is not a problem.

No chance of overstimulation in the second A.  Much more going on in the first A when I'm dropping DS1 at school.

I know it seems such a high first A and seems crazy to increase it again but both Erin and I have thought that with each increase and it has worked.  There's got to be an end to this increasing soon for a little bit at least!  I keep joking I'll be on to one nap by 6 months!

What do you think?



 

[becj86]

Going nicely where I am, lovely and warm and sunny, soon to get very hot but the rain hasn't really kicked in yet this wet season...

I have a kid who needed crazy-long A times early on in the day too I do think if the first nap is sitting at 1hr 30-40 reliably, you may have hit the sweet spot for now. 

It's just that it seems to me as I've been increasing his first A time (which I seem to have been doing every few days for ages  ) when we get it 'exactly right'  he normally gets really good naps - always 2 hours or over, and the following A of 2 hours is not a problem.

Often this does happen when extending but I have always found that once I get to the real 'right' spot the nap is more like 1.5hr or a little more and the following A takes some getting used to but isn't too much after a little while. When you say he's finding it hard to get through the 2nd A at 2hr, could he be bored and wanting a change of scenery? Does he settle ok for his nap after 2hr? How long does he sleep? Any OT wakings requiring resettling?

[lynners]

Ok I'll stick where I am for now thanks.  Glad to know I'm not the only one with these crazy long A's.

He seems to get through the 2 hours ok but often needs settling when going down for nap as though OT.  2nd nap often difficult to judge as normally have him asleep in the buggy so can push out to pick up DS1 from school so tends to be disturbed by this.  As it's a Sunday though we won't have that problem so I'll let you know how we get on.

Hopefully stopping the swaddling won't affect too much today.  Although the day was bad with it yesterday, he did manage to STTN with his arms out for the first time last night.  What a star! 

[becj86]

often needs settling when going down for nap as though OT.  2nd nap often difficult to judge as normally have him asleep in the buggy so can push out to pick up DS1 from school so tends to be disturbed by this.

Are you settling him to sleep in the buggy? If so, it could just be the different place to sleep - maybe he loves his cot and associates it with sleep? Has he a lovey or something that can help make that link?

When DS was ready, stopping swaddle was a breeze, really. I did have a few days of holding through the jolts but nothing unreasonable Hope it works out the same way for Alec. Yay for the STTN!

[lynners]

Thanks Bec.

He's fine settling in the buggy at home.  Kind of trained him in sleeping there as well as the cot from the beginning because I knew I'd need it to do the school runs with DS1.  It's only when we push out the door that he tends to get disturbed.

Haven't really used a lovey at this stage because he's always been swaddled (in the buggy too which helped).  Time to try some soft toys etc, in his bed. I've got one of those mini-blankets with tags that he seems to like sucking on but I'd be a bit nervous to put it in his cot as it could probably just fit over his face.  Annoying as that seems to be the thing he likes the best.

Had to put LO down 5 mins later than normal this morning (DS1 drama ).  He took longer than normal to settle with his hands out so in fact his A time ended up nearly 4 hours.  I've just been watching him on our video monitor (love that thing ) at the 30 minute mark and it looked like he was going to wake up - just as I was reading about your LO being held through the jolts.  I thought maybe I should be doing that as his arms were flailing and there was lots of wriggling but he was very calm, no noise.  He now seems to have settled himself again. Yay!  Did you sit with your LO throughout his nap to 'catch the jolts' at the beginning?

 Not sure what to make of the 4 hour A but we'll see how the nap goes...

[lynners]

So the day ended up being...

S 19.05
DF 10.15
WU and E 6.55
A
E 9.30
A
S 10.55 – 12.21(put down at 10.35, woke up not screaming like OT but more like frustrated whine, left for about 10 mins then went in.  He was scrunching his eyes shut as though trying to stay asleep/ go to sleep.  I tried to hold his arms but it just upset him more so offered him soft toy to suck which he did for 2 seconds then spat it out really crying and rooting.  Decided to get him up and feed him. )
E 12.35
A
S 14.30 – 15.00 (Happy when went down, Calm when woke up but it may have been his arms that woke him.  Left to see if he’d settle for 15 mins.  When i went in still had eyes scrunched trying to sleep.  Bit frustrated.)
A
E 16.00
A
S 16.45 - 17.20
A
E 18.20
S 19.10

So not great day but not truly awful considering first full day with arms out.

Not sure what A I should stick to before first S - 3h 35 yesterday, 4h 00 today.  Although both resulted in a 1h 30m nap with the longer A he looked like he was trying to stay asleep (probably just struggling with arms).  Maybe something in between?

[Erin M]

Seriously, I go away for a few days and he jumps to 4 hours!  I'd be a little scared of trying that consistently -- though I'm sure he'll creep up there soon enough.    I'd probably up a little bit from the 3.35 -- the jerkiness in the 4 hour A time nap could be a little bit of OT at play. 

Good luck with having those arms out, what a star he is STTN anyway! 

[lynners]

LOL - Yep crazy I know!

STTN again - yippee!

Today when I woke up Alec was already awake and kicking about quietly.  Had no idea when he woke up so I thought I'd stick to the lower A of 3h35m.  As it was he ended up taking longer to go to sleep than normal so the A was at least 3h45/50, probably more, and we ended up getting a 2 hour nap with a little wake up and self-settle at 40 mins.

Think I'll put him down at 3h40 tomorrow and see how we go.

[Erin M]

Let us know. 

[becj86]

I thought maybe I should be doing that as his arms were flailing and there was lots of wriggling but he was very calm, no noise.  He now seems to have settled himself again. Yay!  Did you sit with your LO throughout his nap to 'catch the jolts' at the beginning?

I didn't - there was always noise and we were in a TINY house, so I knew when he started moving and went in then. If he's settling himself fine, that's awesome
The jerkiness we had was a combination of insufficient physical activity and OT if it was present.

[lynners]

So my young chap with his crazy first A is still foxing me.

Yesterday we managed to get a fantastic nap of about 2 1/2 hours.  I put him down at 3h 45 (aiming for a 3h50 A).  However he took ages to go to sleep and in fact ended up with a 4h25m A  ... and yes then a great nap.  The problem was then that his normal second A of 2 h10m fell just at the time of school pick up so I had to push him another 20 mins.  Well it was melt down/OT disaster.  Couldn't get him to settle so had to go for EBT, but to get to 6.00 pm BT he had an A of about 4 1/2 hours.  Not great. 

Not sure if I shouldn't have risked going past the 2 hour nap.  I would then have got a 40 min nap in before pick-up and hopefully one after.
However if he had managed to last nearly 3 hours for his nap (which he has done previously) he would have had one great nap and would just need the CN post pick-up.  Not sure.

Today he had an EW and I didn't hear him wake up so was unsure what his A was.  I decided to put him down at 3h 45 again knowing that it was actually more than that.  He fell asleep at 3h55 (plus!) and we ended up with only a 1h 20 nap.  Then after his normal second A of 2h 10 he only got a 40m nap.  Boo.

So I think i'm going to have to increase his first A again - by 10 minutes?...and maybe his second A by 10 as well.  What do you think?

[becj86]

I wonder if with that long first A, he can't quite cope with as long for the next one... Hindsight's 20/20 I reckon your idea of capping at 2hr and fitting in that 40min nap before pickup would be the go.

[lynners]

Yes you're right that he can't handle an A that long after his first nap.  It took a bit of working out (with Erin's help  ) but his first A was up to 3h 55 (plus because of the EW) and aiming for about 2h 10 for the second A - rather a huge difference! 

So today we had an EW which I didn't hear again but when I checked at 6.15 he was awake -

WU and E 6.15 ish ?
A
E 9.10
S 10.15 - 12.15 capped,  (so annoyingly I don't know what his exact A was but it was 4h 00 plus ? )
E 12.15
A
S 14.30 - 15.10 (school run 15.10 - 15.30)
A
E 15.30
A
S 16.40 - tried to get a CN here.  Screaming/crying - couldn't settle.  Tried to shush for a while but had a guest so had to give in and get him up.  Wanted to get him down for an EBT but tricky with guest.  Ended up this -
A
E 18.15
S 18.40 

Now I feel we're in a bit of a mess with our routine.  When things are working well he tends to start the day somewhere between 6.30 and 7.00 and at least I know exactly what A we're working with.  I think I'll set the alarm for 6.00 tomorrow and see if I can at least catch when he's waking.  If I can get our routine tweaked and get him waking at 7.00 at least I could be aiming for something like this-

WU 7
S 11/11.30 - 13/13.30
School pick up 15.10 - 15.30
S 15.30 for about an hour?
S 19.00

Our problem is working around the school pick up.  Either I get in an extra 40 m nap pre pick-up but that means we have to get a CN quite late which never seems to work but the EBT option putting him down at 6.00 would mean that he has an A of 2h50 which is too much for him at that time.

He only seems to be able to do a post pick-up nap if it's quite early - no later than 4.00 but difficult to get there from one nap in the morning.

At least I won't have to work around my pick-up for the next two days..aaaahh the weekend...but I really don't know what to aim for next week.  I so want him to get back to waking up at 7.00.