Dreamfeed not working

[anniel]

Hi, just wanted some advice about if it would be best to give up the dreamfeed that I have been doing for
the last 2 weeks.  The problem is that my LO always wakes 2-3hrs afterwards for a feed however before I
started doing a DF she would sleep 4-6hrs straight off.  She is 4 1/2 mths old and should be taking 210 ml 5 x's a day
I think but she normally only takes about 110 - 150ml at the DF which is maybe why she is waking hungry.  She maybe
would take more in at the DF but after a while she starts drinking so slowly and leaking so much milk I think its best to take her
off.  She then wakes up twice more for a feed before morning so is having one DF and 2-3 more NF's.  If she took a full
feed at the DF I would shush/pat her back to sleep (this worked really well to sort out her naps so she doesn't feed to sleep anymore)
but because she doesn't I'm never sure if she is hungry or not?   

[becj86]

Some babies don't do well with the dreamfeed - it disrupts their sleep. Are you doing it between 3&4hr after she falls asleep? That's the best window for not disrupting sleep. We usually suggest doing the DF consistently for a week to see if it will work to shift LO's long stretch later in the night. You've done it for two weeks and not seen any difference. Can you go to bed earlier and take advantage of that lovely long stretch?

[anniel]

Hi thanks for the reply, yes have been putting her to bed about 7pm and doing the DF about 10:30pm. I could go to bed sometimes for that stretch but most nights there is just too much stuff I need to do!  Just seems I got much more sleep before starting the DF as now I stay up longer than I would have done before and then get woken every 2 hrs afterwards   

[becj86]

Yeah, TBH I went to bed early, got my sleep early and then after the NF around 4 or 5am, I stayed up and did what I needed to do then. I found it was worth it for me because I got more sleep overall and I felt better being up early and having achieved something in my day before DS got up, so I was ready to be mummy instead of wanting to be house cleaner and resenting the mummy role, yk?

[anniel]

I didn't do the DF last night but she still woke at 10:30, think maybe I have programmed her to feed at that time now 

I think her NW's are because she is feeding too much during the night and not enough during the day, she never finishes her bottle sometimes
only taking half.  I know partly this is due to feeding her before 4hrs is up but I find I have to as normally the 4 hrs is up when she should be napping as a result of a short nap pre school run.  Our EASY normally looks like this:

Wake: 6
E: 7 (not hungry before)
S: 7:45 - 8:30
E: 10  (I don't wait till 11 to feed in the hope she sleep longer also as she didn't take a full feed last time)
S: 10:15 - 10:50 (am putting her down before 2hrs is up as a result of having woken her for school run at last sleep)
E: 12 (early feed again for same reason)
S: 12:50 - 2:15
E: 3:45
S: 4:15 - 4:45
E: 6:20
Bed : 6:45

maybe i should feed her when she wakes in the morning anyway even if she doesn't take much and then wait 4hrs in the hope her next feed is better but the feed would still end up being just before her next nap -  do you have any ideas as to what I could do to improve her EASY schedule that then might mean less NW's?

[becj86]

When's the school run, how long does it take and can she sleep in the car/pram while you're doing it? Just getting some info to try and work a routine around the things that are fixed...

Can you push her BT any later and therefore have her waking for the day later?

[anniel]

the school run is 8:35 - 8:55, its quite short as very close so she wouldn't get much of a sleep and when i have carried on walking she always wakes after 30 mins which still throws the rountine out.  sometimes she does go to bed as late as 7:30 depending when CN falls but still wakes up early mostly. sometimes she does wake at 7am like today but woke after 1st nap after 40mins happy and that was with 2hrs A time before.  2nd school run is 2:55 - 3:15

thanks for your help

[anniel]

Hi, since I last posted my LO is still waking for feeds but because I am only breastfeeding at night (bottle feeding the rest of the time) I am finding that I only really give her a good feed the first time she wakes at 1-2 ish (the DF at 10 - 11 ish is bottle which I now let her wake for in the hope she might start sleeping longer again like she did before I introduced the DF) then she wakes at 3 ish then 4.30 before waking at 5:30 when I have now started making her a bottle as I don't feel like I have any breastmilk left to give her and what i have given her is not enough.  This means she then goes down to sleep again from 6-8 after drinking all 210 ml. I am thinking I should just give up the night-time breastfeeding and make her a bottle for when she wakes after the DF and hopefully this will make her sleep through more of the night yet because I want her to feed more in the day than at night I don't know if this is going backwards in terms of progress towards sleeping through.
 She is now 5 mths old.

any advice would be much appreciated 

[becj86]

Have you got lots of milk at the 1-2ish feed? Wondering if she's waking with gas or something the frequent wakings after that... Are you burping her well after that feed?

Does she transfer from car/pram to cot? I trained DS to do just this - he would fall asleep in the pram and I'd lift him out and tell him softly "mummy's got you, just taking you to bed for a nice sleep. It's ok, mummy's got you..." and he'd then nap in the cot. Do you think you could do something like that so your routine would be something like this:
6 - wake, feed
8:30 - nap, transfer
10 - wake, feed
12:30 - nap
2 - wake, feed
4:30 - nap
5/5:15 - wake, feed
6:30 - feed
7 - bedtime

In terms of feeds - how much milk is she taking during the day? Are you still having issues getting a full feed into her? Does she take the whole DF? Wondering if maybe feeding while drowsy (so when just waking from a nap for instance) may help.

[anniel]

Hi

I used to have lots of milk at the 1-2am feed but it has been dwindling the last few days so last night I gave her a bottle of 120ml instead, she still woke at 3ish and then 5:30am and that was with giving her a DF with hungry milk for the first time as well.  In terms of burping I normally get a burp out of her post feed except if I have done a DF when its all been very relaxed.  i don't think burping is the problem as the NW's have always been pretty much the same since she was born except now she doesn't have a long stretch of sleep (5 - 6 hrs) like she did before I started doing a DF.

Re transfering to the cot, this has worked a couple of times so i could keep trying with that however for the last week or so because she has been waking at 5:30 and getting a bottle at 6am she then goes back to sleep till 8am so the nap pattern has changed.

She is taking between 160 - 210ml at most feeds during the day -she has started taking more in the last week or so, before it was often just 100ml.  I try to keep the last feed before the bed time feed small to make sure she takes a full feed at bedtime as its normally only 3 hrs before due to wonky naps.   DF in the last week or so is about 180 - 200ml.  She does quite drowsy on feeding especially when the feed ends up being just before nap time.

I read in the BW that if they are not on 4hr EASY when they should be  that it would lead to NW's so i guess I should focus on this?

In the schedule you suggested the A time is 2 1/2hr however in the BW all your problems solved book it says 2hrs A time at 6mths - is that not always the case then?

[becj86]

2hrs A time at 6mths

I think that was just if you are getting started at 6 months. I'm going with the fact she's been on the routine for a while, so not chronically OT and doesn't need to catch that up or get used to the idea of a routine in general and that she's now nearly 5 months old and at 6 months, most LO's are at 3hr A and dropping the catnap.  Average A times and "Is my baby ready to increase A time?"

Getting your A time right so she can take longer naps is quite important in the scheme of things if you're trying to improve night sleep.

[anniel]

Have started giving her longer A times which she seems fine with.  The last few nights I have fed her by bottle when she has woken 3/4hrs after the DF which has got rid of the other night wakings and she is now waking up between 6 - 7am.  I had been giving her 120ml at this feed but last night I tried to reduce this to 60ml to make her hungrier for her morning bottle but she cried /slept off and on for the next hour so I ended up giving her some more.  How can I get out of this cycle of her not feeding enough during the day and being hungry at night, should I just try reducing her bottle at night by a smaller amount each night?

[becj86]

Reducing her bottle by an ounce (~30mL) every 3-4 days is the way that is recommended, I think - give it a few days for her to shift those calories to the day consistently before dropping more from the night...

The other thing is that at this age, its pretty normal to have a DF and a NF.

[anniel]

Thanks, will take things much more slowly with reducing her bottle.  The main reason for wanting to reduce that NF is so she takes a good feed when she wakes in the morning, I waited an hour to feed her this morning and she still only took 130ml which then throws the wholes day routine out especially when she takes short naps and she ends up feeding just before naps 

[jade85]

Df is also not working for my 6 weeks boy. I feed at 8pm followed by 11pm but he still wakes up at2am, 330am, 5am... Why ? any advice ? and when he wakes up he dont finush his feed drink onky abt half n fall back to slp.

[becj86]

I feed at 8pm followed by 11pm but he still wakes up at2am, 330am, 5am... Why ? any advice ?

I'd say at least the wakings at 2am and 5am are hunger - at 6 weeks, its pretty normal to be feeding every 3hr day and night, sometimes with a 4hr, occasionally 5hr stretch somewhere in the night. Feeding and falling straight back to sleep is good at night

[Erin M]

jade85 -- I would start a new post (click the new topic button when you're on the night wakings main board) and include your current EASY routine and we'll help you out!

[jade85]

Thanks erin, i have posted a new thread in the nw mainboard. With my boy routine. Pls help admin desperate... Gor into car accident due to overtiredeness from my ds hourly wake up. I can't follow a single thing under easy as day time he doesn't nap by the time i successfully shh patt him to slp he gets hungry so my easy ended up with always e,a, e,a and so on. Only thing is he started sleeping at ard 6pm till 1-2am with feeding in between at 8pm n df at 11pm. how can i push this long slp to night time?

[anniel]

Last night my lo slept from DF at 10pm till 4:45am !!  amazing   I think it might be because she hardly got any sleep yesterday afternoon, we went for a walk and she was too interested looking around to sleep and only got 5 mins in the car there and back, screamed her head off when I tried to put her down for a CN on returning home but then went down like an angel at early bedtime.  I've always been told that once your lo sleeps for a long stretch it proves they can do it and you shouldn't feed them anymore if they wake before that time subsequent nights, is this right do you think? am just worried it was only because she was so super tired, I don't want to deprive her of sleep every afternoon!

Jade - hugs that your having so many NW's, wish I could help

[becj86]

I've always been told that once your lo sleeps for a long stretch it proves they can do it and you shouldn't feed them anymore if they wake before that time subsequent nights, is this right do you think?

Not necessarily - Even as an adult, I have days when I'm hungrier than normal... babies have these A LOT with growth spurts, etc. The rule of thumb we go by is if LO is going at least as long at night between feeds as during the day, you're doing fine. Any more frequently and you probably have a problem.

Yay for the good night