6 mo, NW, please help

[SukieCat]

DS is 6 mo.  We started sleep training in early October.  At first it was going pretty well, but now he seems to have regressed somewhat and I'm not sure what to do.  He puts himself to sleep for naps and night, but it involves a lot of crying.  Some days are worse than others.  We had gotten down to one night waking, around 2 - 4am, but recently he's been waking at 11:30 - midnight as well.

I'm a FTM, so I don't really know what's to be expected at 6 months, but I sort of thought he'd be sleeping better by now.  I'm trying to figure out why he is waking around midnight, and how to best help him not wake then.
 
One of my thoughts is he might be cold and waking for some warmth. He wears a short sleeved onesie, a long sleeve footed pj, a cotton sleepsack, and a fuzzy sleepsack to bed.  Last night his room got down to 64 degrees F.  When I went in his hands were chilly, but the back of his neck was warm (not super warm, but not cold).  Should I have him in more layers than that?

Sometimes when he wakes he seems really legitimately hungry, so of course I feed him.  But the extra NW has been going on for almost a week now and I would have thought a growth spurt would be over by now.  How can I get him to eat more in the day so he's not hungry at night?  He gets a combo of BM, formula, and solids.  He nurses when he eats in the night.

We don't use any kind of comfort items.  No blankies, lovies, stuffed animals, not even a paci (he doesn't like pacis).  I'm afraid to leave anything in the crib b/c of SIDS.  But sometimes I wonder if adding something like that would help?

Thanks so much if you've read this far. Please let me know what you think.  I'll post a sample day below...

[SukieCat]

Here's our routine from a couple of days ago. It is pretty typical except where noted.

WU and nurse 6:30 am  (this is a little earlier than normal.  typical WU is at 7-7:30)
A
S 8:40 - 9:30
E Nurse 10:00
A
E Rice cereal and 4oz formula 11:15
S 12:05 - 1:40 (this is unusually long for him. He typically takes 30 - 40 min naps)
E Nurse 1:45
A
S 3:55 - 4:55 (again unusually long... i think it's because he got up early this day)
E Nurse 5:00
A
E Veggie and 6 oz formula 6:30
BT 7:30 (this was a little later than I intended; we had been out and didn't get back when I wanted)
WU 12:08 am - waited thru 10 min of crying to see if he'd resettle, then sent DH in to check diaper and comfort.  DS calmed while being held, then back to crying when DH left.  Waited another 10 min, then went in and fed him.  He seemed really hungry.
E Nurse 12:30 am
S 1:00am - 5am
E 5 am - I didn't wait very long this time b/c he normally eats around this time.
S 5:30 - 7:30 am
WU/E 7:30
 
Please let me know what you think.  Thanks for taking a look!!!!

[Erin M]

One of my thoughts is he might be cold and waking for some warmth. He wears a short sleeved onesie, a long sleeve footed pj, a cotton sleepsack, and a fuzzy sleepsack to bed.  Last night his room got down to 64 degrees F.  When I went in his hands were chilly, but the back of his neck was warm (not super warm, but not cold).  Should I have him in more layers than that?

I think he should be ok with this -- I've got my ds in a fleece sleeper and a sleep sack and I think our house is slightly warmer than that, but he's ok -- and your ds has more layers than mine.   I've always heard it's how their back feels, so if his neck was warm, I'd think he'd be ok.

At 6 months, a lot of babies are moving towards dropping the CN, and I think that's what is happening with you -- you probably need to increase your A time so you can get some longer naps -- when you put those two together, it will stretch out your day and you can lose the cat nap.  Longer naps and more A time in the day should help your NWs as well. 

What do you think?

[SukieCat]

Sounds reasonable to me.  What would you suggest for A times at this age?

[Erin M]

At 6 months, I'd say somewhere in the 2.5-3 hour range for A times -- if he's a few weeks past 6 months (like 6.5 months), then 3 hours for sure. 

[SukieCat]

He is 6 mo + 1 wk.  He's been doing great today with longer A times - I really hope his nights improve too.  Thanks so much for the suggestion!  I'll post today's schedule tomorrow morning to let you know how it goes.

[Erin M]

Great!  Sometimes they do big A jumps around this age!

[SukieCat]

Well the day was good but the night so far has been a bust.   I'm sitting here hoping he'll resettle, but I think I'm going to have to go in there and nurse him.  Here's what today looked like (so far):

BT/S 7:40pm
E 1:15am
S 1:45 - 6:45 am (this was a good night, not sure why)
E 6:50 am, nurse
A
E fruit, 3 oz formula
A
S 9:30 - 11 am
E nurse
A
E 12:30pm, oatmeal, 3 oz formula
A
S 1:40 - 2:50pm
E 3, nurse
A
E 4:30pm rice
A
E 6pm veggie, 6 oz formula
A
E 7, nurse
BT/S 7:10 pm
Up 11:30 pm.  pat shush off and on for an hour. he got quiet but never fell asleep.  about to go feed...
E 12:40 am

I don't know what is going on with these NW.  It really doesn't seem like he should be hungry so soon.  I'm so frustrated I'm about to cry.  Ugh.

[Jaxsta81]

could you try moving BT a bit earlier. Going from 2.50pm to 7.10pm is a long time.

I'm going through this myself and type this with my 6 month old on my lap as he's woken up wide awake at 5am so I feel your pain.

I try and work my day backwards, so if I want him in bed by 6.30pm I do 3 hours A before then and then (3.30pm) and then work out what time to try and aim for a nap to get him to wake at that time. Does that make sense?  Some days we have a CN some days we don't - it just all depends on what time he wakes up.

Extending A time is hard though - especially when they are tired. I find sometimes I give in a little bit earlier than I should and always regret it as he has shorter naps because of it. Try and stick to at least 3 hours A for all awake times, that's my goal anyway - easier said than done sometimes!!!

Good luck!!

[SukieCat]

Here was the rest of our night:

E 12:40
S 1 - 4 am
E 4 - 4:30 am (I don't think I tried to calm him any other way... I just went into his room like a zombie and fed him)
S 4:30 am - 8:50 am
WU/E 8:50

What the heck is up with this pattern?  He was doing this a week or so ago too, waking a couple of times in the night and then sleeping in pretty late.  Is it some kind of day/night confusion?  It's like he's totally lost his self-soothing abilities in the MOTN.  Should I try to always wake him by a certain time in the morning?  The rest of our day is going to be pretty thrown off by this WU time, although I did enjoy sleeping in.

Thanks for the reply, Jaxsta.  Good point about bedtime, I think you're right that it should have been earlier.  DS is not a consistent napper, so I never know how long they'll be.  Until very recently, he rarely made it past 40 min.   

[Erin M]

I think the late wake ups are just sleeping to make up for lost sleep in the night.  I find they throw our days off, though I also have a hard time when they're just so tired in the morning, so not really sure what a good solution is there!
The good days are a plus, let's hope it carries into the night soon!  In the meantime, what is he doing when he wakes up at night?

[SukieCat]

We had a really good day today, here's hoping tonight is better!  I'll post a schedule for analysis in the morning...

When he wakes at night he just cries.  I usually give him 5-10 min to see if he'll resettle on his own, which he used to do sometimes, but lately he hasn't been.  Then I go in and try to comfort him in his crib.  Last night he calmed down while I was patting him, but never managed to fall back to sleep.  If I leave him, he just ramps back up and cries till he's hysterical.  At some point I give up and feed him, then he'll go right back to sleep on his own.  A lot of times he'll take a good feed around midnight, which makes me think he's really hungry, and then he won't feed well at 4am.  But not long ago he was only waking once at night, around 4, so I know he can do it and doesn't really need to eat at midnight.  I try to feed him as much as I can during the day, but he does a combo of nursing, formula, and solids so I don't really know how much he's getting overall.  Sorry, that's kind of a rambling answer, I just figure if I throw out enough detail maybe something will jump out at you, ya know?  Thanks so much for trying to help me figure this out!!

[SukieCat]

Here was yesterday, it was a good day/night:

WU/E 8:50 am (the night before was a rough one)
A
E 10:30 fruit + oatmeal
A
S 11:45 - 12:10
   patted and shushed and he actually fell back to sleep.  that doesn't usually happen for me
S 12:20 - 1:10
E nurse
A
E 3:15 veggie
A
S 3:55 - 5:20
E nurse
A
E 6:30 rice cereal, formula
A
BT/S 7:50pm - 4am - yay!
E 4-4:30
S 4:30 - 8
WU/E 8 am

It was a good nap day with a good night.  Today he took good naps too, so I hope we get another good night!

[Erin M]

Ooh that is a good day/night.  He's still totally within reason of needing a night feed at his age -- the easy feed and right back to sleep is fine, just the other stuff that needs to be worried about!  I do think you're on the right track!

[SukieCat]

We had another good day/night!  I really feel like we're moving in the right direction.  Extending A times was key.  I think I was making him take way UT naps before, poor kid

This was yesterday, starting with the night I posted last time:

BT/S 7:50pm - 4 am
E 4 - 4:30 nurse
S 4:30 - 8
WU/E 8, nurse
A
E 9:00 fruit
A - out and about.  got back a bit late
S 11:35 - 1:15
E nurse
A
E 3:00pm oatmeal, formula
A
S 4:15 - 5:20
E nurse
A
E 6:45 veggie, formula
A
BT/S 7:50pm - 4:15am   
E 4:15 - 4:45
S 4:45 - 8:45
WU/E 8:45

I'm starting to actually feel like a regular person when I get up for the day!  And DS seems happier too.  I really hope this pattern continues.