New and looking for help/advice!

[Donna Green]

Hi all,

I am a newbie looking for some support and advice.  My wee girl heather is 22 weeks old and for the last 3 weeks she suddenly started waking every two hours.  As a newborn she always did a 5 or 6 hour sleep and then a couple of smaller ones after. 
I am BF so when she was hungry I brought her into bed and got into the bad habit of co-sleeping which i started trying to break two weeks ago.  We have just moved her to her cot from her basket on sat and I started on sun doing the easy method.  It seems to be working well during the day but I am not confident at night.  I only got the book today so held off on what to do at night until tonight.  There are a few questions I have:

1.  Her cot is in beside us.. Is that wrong? Does it need to be in her own room?
2.  I think the sudden change was a growth spurt, but I think she is probably over it now but when I feed her at night she does seem to take a feed although she falls asleep too.  Tonight she went to bed at 9 pm and she woke at 1230pm. I thought sh was probably hungry, she fell asleep when i fed her and I moved her back into her cot.  She just woke again at 2.30pm.  As its only 2 hours i assume it cant really be hunger? I have done PUPD with her a few times but she is still awake.  She is not really crying though, just making noises and moaning a bit in between trying to grab things in her cot.  My hubby and I are now out the room as I don't know if it's worse if she sees us lying there?
3.  Is this just what it will be for the first couple if weeks till we get established?
4.  I guess she isn't hungry as then she would really cry?   It's like she is trying to work up to a cry but not getting there.. Am not sure whether to pick her up when she does this or only if she is really crying?
5.  I think she's his fed enough during day- 2/3 baby rice or fruit a day and breast milk with that and by the easy routine every four hours since Sunday.  Does this seem right?

I just picjked her up and put her down so i guess all is right and I just need to stick wit it?

Anyway, any help would be much appreciated, thank you so much in advance.  A lot of questions generally.. Sorry about that!

Donna xx

[jessmum46]

Hi and welcome

Could you post your current routine during the day? Any issues with discomfort for your LO e.g. Reflux, gas?

Current SIDS recommendations are to have LO in your room until 6 months so yes it's fine for the cot to be there. It is possible to sleep train with you in the same room but may be helpful if you and partner can take it in turns to sleep elsewhere just so you can get some rest

With feeds at night, I would feed if she wakes more than 4h from the last feed. If its sooner then use PUPD to settle her all the way to sleep even if you go past the 4h mark. Then feed at the next waking. If she's happy playing in her cot and not crying for you then don't interfere at all-I'd just leave her to it and wait until she needs you.

4h EASY is appropriate at this age. Did your ped recommend starting solids? When do you give solids in relation to milk? (Before/after?)

(((Hugs))) it's really tough getting started but you will get there and we'll be here to support you. I started at around that age too and its the best thing I did!

[becj86]

1.  Her cot is in beside us.. Is that wrong? Does it need to be in her own room?

Its fine (and in line with SIDS recommendations) for LO's crib to be in your room.

2.  I think the sudden change was a growth spurt, but I think she is probably over it now but when I feed her at night she does seem to take a feed although she falls asleep too.  Tonight she went to bed at 9 pm and she woke at 1230pm. I thought sh was probably hungry, she fell asleep when i fed her and I moved her back into her cot.  She just woke again at 2.30pm.  As its only 2 hours i assume it cant really be hunger? I have done PUPD with her a few times but she is still awake.  She is not really crying though, just making noises and moaning a bit in between trying to grab things in her cot.  My hubby and I are now out the room as I don't know if it's worse if she sees us lying there?

That's quite normal - she's hungry and tired too She just wants to eat and go back to sleep. I had DS in his own room, so can't comment on how LO goes when they can see you right there. I can bet my boy would have wanted to play... Personally, at this age, I'd just feed and go back to bed.

3.  Is this just what it will be for the first couple if weeks till we get established?

Things may be a bit bumpy til you get established.

4.  I guess she isn't hungry as then she would really cry?   It's like she is trying to work up to a cry but not getting there.. Am not sure whether to pick her up when she does this or only if she is really crying?

Sounds like a mantra cry? what is a mantra cry...should I let him make that cry? Best to leave her to it if its a mantra - she's trying to settle herself and won't work it out without practise. Of course respond if she's crying.

What is her daytime routine?

Posted with jessmum

[Donna Green]

Hi both,
Thank you so much for your help.

In terms of routine, I will be honest and say I haven't had one until I just decided on Sunday to start the easy method.  During the daytime has been going great and she seems to settle really well in her cot after PUPD just a few times or sometimes only once.

Today has been really rough though.  She didn't nap well and I wasn't sure what to do so tried PUPD and she got more and more hysterical which eventually led to me bringing her through and then feeding her.  As a result she is completely overtired now ( and so am I after a rough night) and she is in cot just doing mantra cry now I think.  We are standing outside room hubby's turn and if she starts to cry properly h will go in and PUPD.  Does this seem right?

She does suffer from a bit of reflux.. It has improved since she was little but bothers her from time to time.

Any words of encouragement and advice again would be so appreciated.  It didn't help that my parents were up when she had the screaming fits earlier as they clearly didn't think I was doing the right thing and this made me doubt myself and the method which I truly think will work if I can stick with it.

Thank you so so much in advance,

Donna xxx

[becj86]

Ok, PUPD is an inappropriate method for a baby with reflux. I have my suspicions that maybe the reflux is bothering her - is she on meds? Have you got her sleeping on an incline to help keep the stomach contents in the stomach where they belong?

[Donna Green]

Hi,

She is not on any meds as she would not take them.  It did sound a bit like it was bothering her tonight.. I think because she was overexcited it played up a bit.  She used to be inclined when min her basket, but I haven't done so in her cot as she doesn't seem to have as much bother with I now.. Maybe I should get one of those wedges?
The reflux was part of the reason I have probably been overly soft in terms of holding her as it helped to give her a bit extra cuddling and keep her upright after feeds of course.

Thank you for the quick response, it really helps especially when overtired and emotional. 

[Donna Green]

Ooh mean to say in relation to solids.. I decided to start her at 19 weeks just with a wee bit of baby rice as she seemed to be starving and showing all the signs for a good few weeks.  I give her the food first then bf her.  I am trying to introduce formula so may try that before any rice at night, but don't want to give her too much change at once!  Again, any advice on the feeding would be good as she still seems hungry during the night to me! Maybe she just is hungry and if that the case then fine, I will happily feed her and back to cot, but I am scared its just the sucking and bein in bed beside us as comfort becoming a bad habit so i will definitely follow your advice about the 4 hours.. That's a great help and reassurance xxx

[jessmum46]

At this age food is very much just for fun and most (pretty much all) of the calories come from milk. I'd suggest BF first then offering solids an hour later to ensure she gets a full milk feed and to prevent the solids robbing her milk intake. Are you wanting to wean BF? Just wondered about why you want to introduce formula that's all   if she can go 4h between feeds in the day she should be able to do at least that at night so I'd go with the 4h rule. It's totally normal for babies at this age to need one or two NF or a NF plus a DF.

As Bec said, PUPD isn't suitable for babies with reflux as it can aggravate the condition. Have you ever tried shh pat? It was very effective for us at that age.

How long do you keep her up before trying for a nap? How many naps per day? What time is BT?

[Donna Green]

Hi again,
I have been wondering about the feeding and whether I was doing it the wrong way round.. I think that will make all the difference as she must be hungry if I am too reliant on the solids filling her up!  Great advice!  I am wanting to gradually wean, but it's more that I want her to be able to take bottles so i can have a break and because I am going to have to do a couple of days at work soon here and there so she needs to be able to take a bottle from her dad/gran.  So this is the other challenge that is going on!  She is not keen on the bottle!

The PUPD seems to be going well.  She is only being picked up once or twice during the day and then going to sleep, but I think I just need to watch If she is having a bi of bother with the reflux as it just seems to be flaring up on the odd day... Mostly gone.  I haven't tried the ssh pat, but will maybe give it a go if having bother.  I hav been good about noticing her cues and putting her straight for nap except yesterday where my Mum was up and I think I missed it, then her nap was short and she resisted going back to sleep then it was a knock on effect of over tiredness for rest of day!  She has generally been a short napper,but I think it's my fault as I think when sh was younger I didn't notice the signs so she was overtired by the time she went down.

Last night she went down at 8pm overtired, fed at 1030pm, fed at 1230pm and then at 5am.  I wa planning to stick to 4 hour rule but she genuinely ate and went straight back t bed.  I will focus more on the milk feeds today and onwards and hopefully that will make all the difference, poor wee soul probably wasn't getting enough during the day!  Think I was listening to grandparents too much saying she needed solids to bulk her up and get her to sleep, and then I couldn't understand why her sleep was worse.

Thanks soo much again,

Donna xx

[jessmum46]

Great job let us know how you're getting on

[Donna Green]

Hi again,
Hope you are well.
Things are completely Worse!  Heather has been up basically every hour last night.
I feelso depressed and unsure of what to do... Completely overwhelmed.
Routine went out the window a few days ago and I know it's my fault as we gave up really as didn't know how to get back on track.  Now the poor soul is probably completely confused.. She must be, as so are we!  Her reflux was playing up so I really didn't know what to do about the PUPD and think maybe we have been picking her up too early or something and now she just expects it?
On top of that I need to get her onto formula as I have some days out coming up so she needs to be able to take a bottle.  I know it's too much change all at once, but I am going to crack up if I can't leave her with someone for a while occasionally.
I really don't know what to do. 
I don't know where to start or what I am doing so appreciate any help you can offer...
Thanks again in advance, Donna xx

[jessmum46]

Big ((hugs)) Hun - it's just so hard sometimes.

Ok so if the reflux is playing up, I would stop with PUPD because it may well be aggravating things. Is it worth revisiting whether she needs meds?  Sleep training while LO is uncomfortable will just be frustrating for you both and won't work

Could you perhaps record when she eats, sleeps etc for a day or two and post it? Don't worry if it seems all over the place.  Do you have anywhere she will sleep well eg sling, swing, carseat?  I'd suggest to get her to sleep by any means for the next couple of days to give you both a chance to catch up and then we can move forward.

I'm going to ask for someone with BTDT reflux experience to take a peek for you x

[ZacsMumme]

Hi Donna,
Hugs on the tough time
From what you have described it does some like your LO may be uncomfortable with regards to the reflux. Is she teething? - this can cause big reflux flare ups.
When you say she wouldn't take meds, when and what was she on for reflux initially? - do you think things have got worse since starting solids? - solids can either improve or aggravate acid reflux so it could be that introducing them has caused more discomfort.

[Donna Green]

Hi,

Thanks again for all the support and you have just confirmed my thoughts also.

I think she is teething as she has been doing a lot more dirty nappies than usual.. Last night she was up between three and four an filled her nappy.  I have started to give her some teething powder before bed.  Also her reflux is playing up so I will go back to doctors to see if I can get an alternative medicine for her.  Good to know that teething can cause a flare up as it had seemed to disappear when I gave her solids.

She seems to go to sleep fine, but she just wakes every couple of hours... I think it is definitely discomfort and as you suggest I had just decided not to do any sleep training until I get her over the pain.. She clearly just needs a bit extra comfort and love from us j use now.

Once I get this on a more even keel, I will give it a go again and let you know how it's going!

Thanks so so much - I was so down and shattered yesterday - makes all the difference to have some support.

Donna xxx

[jessmum46]

Let us know how you get on